USSR war entry very early !

[waichou]

I have a big problem, I am only in June 1940 and USSR declared war on me ! My only "mistake" was to declare war against Norway and make pressure to Romania, which finally joins Axis the same turn. The reaction was immediat, USSR declares war. Is it normal ??

PS : maybe you could add a pop up message when a country declares war, I had nothing but the message where I have to chose the level for occupation (harch, ect.).

Thanks,

[doomtrader]

Hi,

Such a message is on our to do list.

[Razz1]

Don't mess with Romania.

Stalin considered that sacred.

Game does too.

[Rasputitsa]

Nice to see the game can launch surprises, except of course when you are on the receiving end.[:)]

[waichou]

Yes, it may be fun sometimes, but it wasted my game in this case... I was not prepared for Barbarossa, if I knew this I wouldn't make pressure on Romania, DP are normally here to help, not to be in bad shape when using it... I think we could at least have a pop up to accept/refuse USSR land revendication in Romania, to avoid such situation. And the worst is that I can't go back, as the autosave is after the Italian turn, so impossible to do something, I have to restart a game... (I had only one save, now I we be more careful !)
I think you could change this in the futur patch (I don't think it's normal that USSR declares war so early, as I see their army seems to be not ready too...). [:(][:(]

[fvianello]

ORIGINAL: waichou

(I don't think it's normal that USSR declares war so early, as I see their army seems to be not ready too...). [:(][:(]

If USSR took you by surprise and raped your eastern front troops, Stalin is right and you are wrong

[waichou]

Maybe, but I don't think this is the reason. If I Romania didn't join me USSR wouldn't have declared war on me... And, between us, I think I can beat them (like the AAR you can read in another topic, he had the same problem but he devasted Russia because they were not ready...), and if I trust you why Russia, USA, etc. don't declare war in 1939, if they think they can beat me, not very historical... I understand the fact that it is an interesting challenge to have some "What if" scenario, but I am sure that in every game Romania will join me early because of pressure, USSR will declare war at the same time. But maybe I am wrong...

[fvianello]

If the USSR DOW keeps happening every time Romania joins Axis you're right, it becomes more a bug than a feature. I'm hoping the AI made also some evaluation on the general situation (troops deployed, number of countries with an efficient army still at war with germany, etc.) before deciding to declare war.

[waichou]

Yes, it would be interesting to have the point of view of Doomtrader. I think Romania and Finland are 2 sensible countries which are too easily responsible of USSR DOW

[doomtrader]

The developers point of view about the gameplay is not always the best one. I'm just not able to play enough games to check that.
I'll take a look at that, but if you are reporting that Finland and Romania are causing Soviet-German war, a way to often, then this is not right for sure and there is no problem to adjust that.

[Anguille]

ORIGINAL: waichou

Yes, it may be fun sometimes, but it wasted my game in this case... I was not prepared for Barbarossa, if I knew this I wouldn't make pressure on Romania, DP are normally here to help, not to be in bad shape when using it... I think we could at least have a pop up to accept/refuse USSR land revendication in Romania, to avoid such situation. And the worst is that I can't go back, as the autosave is after the Italian turn, so impossible to do something, I have to restart a game... (I had only one save, now I we be more careful !)
I think you could change this in the futur patch (I don't think it's normal that USSR declares war so early, as I see their army seems to be not ready too...). [:(][:(]

Wouldn't be fun if it was too predictable...[;)]

[waichou]

Yes, for Finland I can't be sure, but for Romania I think it is (if someone has the same feeling...).
After reading the AAR by Macroeconomics, it seems that USSR also declared war early for the same reason, I think it should be corriged, because now I am affraid to use my DP ! [&:]

[freeboy]

use the save game feature

[waichou]

I would, but I played with one save only (I know this is stupid...), and unfortunatly the Autosave bring me to the Slovakia turn (last player for Axis...), and it's too late to cancel the Alliance...
I don't know if it's a good idea, but maybe the Autosave should be at the beginning of Axis turn, because most of time we want to go back AFTER the result of Allies turn (which is after all Axis countries turns), and it's not very useful to go back to the last minor country turn. But I am ok, it was stupid to have only one save for my game...

[freeboy]

or you could call it a learning experience.. my first game.. reds attacked.. I too had not saved, but my invasion of France was poor so retarting was an easy choice..
the issue will be in server games, no way to retreat the game when plyers find a game breaking error they make.. BUT.. server games , to my suprise are so much easier to administrate the turns.. oops off topic..
good luck.. fyi reds are super weak in 39 and 40 

[macroeconomics]

ORIGINAL: freeboy
or you could call it a learning experience.. my first game.. reds attacked.. I too had not saved, but my invasion of France was poor so retarting was an easy choice..
the issue will be in server games, no way to retreat the game when plyers find a game breaking error they make.. BUT.. server games , to my suprise are so much easier to administrate the turns.. oops off topic..
good luck.. fyi reds are super weak in 39 and 40 

I sort of agree with this attitude. A lot of it is the pure shock value the USSR entry has on German players who have been trained over years of experience with other wargames that the USSR entering early is a death sentence. In ToF the Soviets already have their hands full with the minor they are attacking, so they can't really hurt the Germans that much in the first 6-12 months. What early USSR entry does IMO is double down on the France invasion results. If France can hold out until the Fall of 1940, or can inflict a ton of casualties on the Germans, then the Germans are probably dead. On the other hand if the Germans can plough through France on a reasonable time schedule with light losses (as was the case in my AAR game), then they should have the force structure to hurt the Soviets very rapidly.

[waichou]

I try continue my game, but it is still very curious... Ok, USSR declared war, but I had all the time to put my army and advance in russia, as they have a very poor army (most of cities are without garrison !) I don't see any opposition, maybe they are far far away in the mainland... (I have reach and decimated their airplanes this turn). And I just realized that Finland, which is in war with USSR since the beginning, has taken all cities between Leningrad and Novgorod, and are still advancing to Moscow !! I really don't understand the Soviet strategy (and I would add that it is very strange that Finland can beat USSR so easily !). I think there is a problem here, I will try another game but I want to be sure I will not have such surprises...

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

The developers point of view about the gameplay is not always the best one. I'm just not able to play enough games to check that.
I'll take a look at that, but if you are reporting that Finland and Romania are causing Soviet-German war, a way to often, then this is not right for sure and there is no problem to adjust that.

I can definately confirm that a Russian attack on Romania IS causing a Russian-German war. Spring of '40 is when it usually occurs.

[Razz1]

Finland or Romania will only cause a war with Russia if you are aligned with them.

Don't influence either of those countries. It raises the Soviet Unions war entry. Then as Germany if you DOW too many countries you will be in an early war.

This is no Different than HOI / HOI2.

DP is short and your better off making sure you get the correct countries on your side.

Can influence work with Finland or Romania?

Yes, it can with Romania, but it is a timing issue and you have to be very careful. Most of them time you will get into a war with Russia.

Allot of this depends upon what the AI chooses as Russia or the Human player.

For Finland: I get then in the camp after they are in war with Russia and I am ready to DOW or are already in a war.

I have tried several times with Finland, but it isn't worth an alignment as it always drags you into a war.

You forget: Germany's actions causes WE to rise for all the allies.

Watch what you are doing and there won't be a problem with early war with Russia.

[Numdydar]

Romania was NOT even in the Axis when Russia declared war on them in my game. Yet Germany immeadeately is now at war with Russia. I did not do ANY DP on any Balken country either.