MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

[Red Prince]

I think the Commonwealth needs to find better Admirals. They had a chance to really hurt the Italian fleet, but they screwed it up again. Sure, they cleared them out of the W. Med . . . for the moment . . . but they aim was to obliterate, not chase off.

[Red Prince]

Here's what I've done with the Chinese to try to slow down the Japanese advance. a 5-1 GARR is arriving after this turn for the Communists, and a 5-4 MTN the turn after that. The problem is in Nationalist China, where nothing is scheduled to arrive. They can probably build either HQ-I Stillwell, or the Kunming MIL and an INF unit after the end of this turn. Probably better to have the 2 units sooner than the HQ at this point.

[Red Prince]

The 2 attacks made by the Allies this turn are the Automatic attack on the Partisan unit in Singapore, and the desperate attack on Marseilles.

That second attack is actually 3:2, but has a 50% chance of being 2:1 . . . if that really matters. The odds aren't very good either way.



And the results:

Attack on Marseilles; Assault, Fractional Odds .407 (Yes), Roll = 6 = 1/1 (Marseilles MIL destroyed, attackers disorganized)
Attack on Singapore; Assault, Roll = Automatic

Seems the French just won't give up, will they? Not only did they take back Marseilles, but I also moved the MTN into the hex to the NW of it, which disorganized it . . . but with the city taken it is no longer Isolated! And it is blocking any easy direct assault on the city next impulse, too.

[Red Prince]

What just happened was pure cockiness on the part of the Germans. The were sure things were tied up nice and clean. They didn't count on the French risking all to take back some part of their homeland, and it wouldn't have mattered if the Germans had bothered to make sure that MTN was ZOCed into the hex where it was before . . .

[Red Prince]

And at the end of the impulse, the turn continues. But it is almost a certainty now that France will survive one more turn, because the weather for impulse #11 is again showing the extremes:

[composer99]

I think it was a mistake for the Chinese Communists to move so many units. Just the Lanchow warlord moved to where you actually placed him would have sufficed. The ZoCs would have blocked the Japanese CAV from advancing rapidly, and if it moved forward it would be out of supply. HQ Terauchi can't move further forward without risking supply problems itself.

In particular, giving up Yennan like that is IMO very questionable. And correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that an anti-tank gun by itself (therefore 1 combat factor) in the mountains (therefore a total of 2 factors)?

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

I think it was a mistake for the Chinese Communists to move so many units. Just the Lanchow warlord moved to where you actually placed him would have sufficed. The ZoCs would have blocked the Japanese CAV from advancing rapidly, and if it moved forward it would be out of supply. HQ Terauchi can't move further forward without risking supply problems itself.

In particular, giving up Yennan like that is IMO very questionable. And correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that an anti-tank gun by itself (therefore 1 combat factor) in the mountains (therefore a total of 2 factors)?

About the gun, you are correct, but it was put there after the 7-3 INF was disorganized, and I intend to add another unit to that hex.

As for Yenan, it serves no real purpose. The mountains are nice, but the US Entry chit possibility is nicer. Lanchow and Sian are much more important. And, the summer months are coming. It will probably start early, since there is a +1 Modifier to the next roll, and the turn isn't likely to last beyond this weather roll.

[Centuur]

What I don't understand is the way Chiang is behaving. There is that nice Japanese ENG division all alone. Also, Chiang needs to get out of those mountains and move west to be useful... Why didn't you attack the ENG division (a 5-1 attack), eliminate it and then move into the hex it occupies? Together with movement of the Kunming Warlord or the 4-1 GAR towards Chiang, that would put the Japanese 6-3 INF out of supply. Of course there is a danger that Chiang will get disorganised, however, if he is going to get surrounded by the Japanese, he's going to sit for a very long time in the city he's in now, doing absolutely nothing but binding some Japanese units, while the rest is running around in the Nationalists heartland...
This could have given Chiang a possibility to get out of that area...

Marseilles is of course a terrible mistake from the Italian general staff. You're slowly understanding how this game works. Always look for opportunities, even in desperate situations. Never give up. You never know when the die will make things better for your side, and if a unit is going to die after all, use it on your terms. Vive la France, even if it is just for another couple of months...

By the way: it's time for a news broadcast on German Radio: "The Hochseeflotte did crush those English teadrinkers in the North Sea, even against superior enemy naval forces...". The German admiral now has his victory.
 

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

What I don't understand is the way Chiang is behaving. There is that nice Japanese ENG division all alone. Also, Chiang needs to get out of those mountains and move west to be useful... Why didn't you attack the ENG division (a 5-1 attack), eliminate it and then move into the hex it occupies? Together with movement of the Kunming Warlord or the 4-1 GAR towards Chiang, that would put the Japanese 6-3 INF out of supply. Of course there is a danger that Chiang will get disorganised, however, if he is going to get surrounded by the Japanese, he's going to sit for a very long time in the city he's in now, doing absolutely nothing but binding some Japanese units, while the rest is running around in the Nationalists heartland...
This could have given Chiang a possibility to get out of that area...

Marseilles is of course a terrible mistake from the Italian general staff. You're slowly understanding how this game works. Always look for opportunities, even in desperate situations. Never give up. You never know when the die will make things better for your side, and if a unit is going to die after all, use it on your terms. Vive la France, even if it is just for another couple of months...

By the way: it's time for a news broadcast on German Radio: "The Hochseeflotte did crush those English teadrinkers in the North Sea, even against superior enemy naval forces...". The German admiral now has his victory.

Look at post #479 again. The best I could have gotten was a 5:2 attack, which is 2:1 with a 50/50 chance at 3:1, which would surely have disorganized Chiang. Remember, Chinese Attack Weakness halves attack factors for all of the Nationalists. The ENG is in a mountain hex, which doubles his factors. And, if I did what you suggested, he has a chance of being Isolated, too, on the next Japanese impulse. That would be very bad.

I also couldn't abandon that city completely, and I needed to move the Kunming MIL back toward Kunming, or leave it open for the Japanese to take very very soon.

The Italians actually were only partly to blame for Marseilles. Mostly it was the German failure to block out the MTN unit that caused the real trouble. Too eager to get to Toulouse, I guess. Well, at least Marseilles is easier to take than Toulouse in the long run.

And, I agree. The Germans now have their victory. Parades in Paris and Berlin, and everywhere in-between!

[brian brian]

If the attack on the PART in Singapore was automatic, then you have a bug in the odds resolution. PART units have +1 to their combat factors in woods or jungle hexes.

Meanwhile in England, the Conservative back-benchers murmurings for churchill, churchill have become a dull roar of PUT BLOODY CHURCHILL IN CHARGE already. Chamberlain's government probably fell on April 10, 1940 in this game. 'Murder at Sea' indeed ... losing the Ark Royal and thousands and thousands of Royal Army soldiers while Home Fleet Battleships sit in port..... very bad tactics. Far better to send the CVs to the sunny ocean and the BBs to the stormy ocean. And send 5 BBs with 2 CVs, not the other way around. And include escorts _with_ the Transports. In the real war, standard naval operations included a "Covering Force" _and_ "Escorts".

"At this point, it's time to do anything even remotely possible to stop the conquest of France." That point passed on the very first turn when the cream of the British Army went to a completely unthreatened Gibraltar. Just think how nice it would be to have them on the line of the Gironde river right now....the Luftwaffe couldn't be setting up Paratrooper bases to threaten Madrid with. And unless the Fallschirmjaegers set up with enough bombers that can supply Ground Support AND Defensive Ground Support the next impulse, let them land, risking casualties (though far safer on the 1d10) and disorganization and then wipe them out.....with those rusty British infantry units in Gibraltar.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

If the attack on the PART in Singapore was automatic, then you have a bug in the odds resolution. PART units have +1 to their combat factors in woods or jungle hexes.

The Partisan began with zero combat factors, so the +1 gave it 1 combat factor . . . and an 11:1 attack is Automatic

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

"At this point, it's time to do anything even remotely possible to stop the conquest of France." That point passed on the very first turn when the cream of the British Army went to a completely unthreatened Gibraltar. Just think how nice it would be to have them on the line of the Gironde river right now....the Luftwaffe couldn't be setting up Paratrooper bases to threaten Madrid with. And unless the Fallschirmjaegers set up with enough bombers that can supply Ground Support AND Defensive Ground Support the next impulse, let them land, risking casualties (though far safer on the 1d10) and disorganization and then wipe them out.....with those rusty British infantry units in Gibraltar.

I have run probably a dozen games through the first three turns, at least, and I have not successfully had the BEF do anything useful yet. This is because I tend to play Germany like a rampaging bull, so that there just isn't time to get units into good positions. I don't regret not sending the BEF. I really don't think it would have made much difference.

Disagree if you will, but that's my thought. Plus, this is old ground: the reason I did it was over compensation for the previous game and a bug (since fixed) that wouldn't have let me disembark the units into France anyway.

So, without sounding too grumpy, please stop talking about the BEF "mistake" at the start of this game. It's over. It's done. If you want to beat me over the head for my mistakes, at least do it for my latest mistakes, please.

[brian brian]

oh, good. how did you get the other 5 factors after the 6-2 Sydney MIL? just curious.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

oh, good. how did you get the other 5 factors after the 6-2 Sydney MIL? just curious.

The 5-4 INF that was in Bombay was on its way to Singapore just as the Partisan showed up, so I let it go to Kuala Lumpur instead. it moved into range last impulse, and the MIL moved up this impulse, and together they beat the living (bleep) out of that Partisan unit. [:)]

[Red Prince]

Turns out I was wrong about Yugoslavia. From RAC 19.7:

Yugoslavia
An Axis major power that controls Athens can declare that Yugoslavia is aligning with it during any Axis declaration of war step if:
• Yugoslavia is neutral; and
• Italy, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, Greece and Albania are all Axis controlled.

This means that Greece must actually be conquered first before Yugoslavia can be aligned. That is how the glossary defines "controlled" -- as conquered or aligned. So, Italy will have to wait for its first impulse next turn to do it. Grrrrr.

[Centuur]

Oops... I totally forgot to calculate the Chinese Attack Weakness... That shows how fast you can make a mistake in this game...
Now, I've got a question for you. The thing that always took a lot of time in our group was pre-calculating possible defense factors for a hex, before movement started.
Let's suggest that the Chinese would like to see how many defense factors the Japanese can get into the hex where the 6-3 INF is in (before ground strikes take place). As the Chinese I'm thinking about attacking it (hey, it's just an example, no way the Chinese is able to do this...). Can I than select this hex and get a calculation which than gives me the 12 defense factors from the land units and the 4 possible defensive ground support available for the hex (? Especially in crowded area's, this could be a big help in speeding things up a little).

About your health issues, I've got one advice: stop smoking. Two times pneumonia is enough. Yes, it's hard to do so. I did about 20 years ago, at a point where I did smoke one case of cigarillo's in two days (that's about 200 of those nice and tasty small cigars a week...) and got some health problems of this (lung problems...).
They say around here that if you stay with doing only two of the four dangerous things in your life, you're going to survive. Those are: smoking, drinking, eating and woman. The first I don't do any more, the second with very small amounts, except when I'm at the Oktoberfest in Munich, the third I do to much and the fourth, well: I'm married
So I should be all right. However: why is my doctor always saying that I should lose weight... [&:]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Oops... I totally forgot to calculate the Chinese Attack Weakness... That shows how fast you can make a mistake in this game...
Now, I've got a question for you. The thing that always took a lot of time in our group was pre-calculating possible defense factors for a hex, before movement started.
Let's suggest that the Chinese would like to see how many defense factors the Japanese can get into the hex where the 6-3 INF is in (before ground strikes take place). As the Chinese I'm thinking about attacking it (hey, it's just an example, no way the Chinese is able to do this...). Can I than select this hex and get a calculation which than gives me the 12 defense factors from the land units and the 4 possible defensive ground support available for the hex (? Especially in crowded area's, this could be a big help in speeding things up a little).

About your health issues, I've got one advice: stop smoking. Two times pneumonia is enough. Yes, it's hard to do so. I did about 20 years ago, at a point where I did smoke one case of cigarillo's in two days (that's about 200 of those nice and tasty small cigars a week...) and got some health problems of this (lung problems...).
They say around here that if you stay with doing only two of the four dangerous things in your life, you're going to survive. Those are: smoking, drinking, eating and woman. The first I don't do any more, the second with very small amounts, except when I'm at the Oktoberfest in Munich, the third I do to much and the fourth, well: I'm married
So I should be all right. However: why is my doctor always saying that I should lose weight... [&:]

The defensive value for the hex the computer provides whenever you move the cursor over a hex. It gives a host of other information too. But the air and naval support factors are not calculated in anticipation of air movement and allocating naval bombardment support. That's up to the player to figure out.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Oops... I totally forgot to calculate the Chinese Attack Weakness... That shows how fast you can make a mistake in this game...
Now, I've got a question for you. The thing that always took a lot of time in our group was pre-calculating possible defense factors for a hex, before movement started.
Let's suggest that the Chinese would like to see how many defense factors the Japanese can get into the hex where the 6-3 INF is in (before ground strikes take place). As the Chinese I'm thinking about attacking it (hey, it's just an example, no way the Chinese is able to do this...). Can I than select this hex and get a calculation which than gives me the 12 defense factors from the land units and the 4 possible defensive ground support available for the hex (? Especially in crowded area's, this could be a big help in speeding things up a little).

Yes, in part. The main form shows you a lot of detailed information on a hex, including the Attack and Defense factors in a hex (totals). It doesn't show all of the possible Ground Support, though. That you have to figure out for yourself from what is in the area.

About your health issues, I've got one advice: stop smoking. Two times pneumonia is enough. Yes, it's hard to do so.

No comment.

[brian brian]

ahh I'm sorry man, I'm not trying to beat you up. sorry that I was repetitive on my point. I just want to move the needle on what you consider 'good' for the CW. to wit:

the BEF lost a unit on the flank of Paris. perhaps you consider that 'bad'. but that probably gained the French an extra impulse....which they just used to re-take Marseilles. a development that might result in the Germans taking an extra turn to finish off France. which might result in the Germans clearing the approaches to Gibraltar an extra turn later....just as perhaps the weather rolls become a factor ... so the BEF accomplished something.

similarly, you were disappointed a major Royal Navy task force only damaged a couple Italian cruisers in the West Med. but you did clear the zone of Italian naval units ... how would that attack on Marseilles have looked with a couple of points of Defensive Shore Bombardment? that option can be very good for the Italians too.

anyhow, the CW is the hardest country to play and to learn to play well (hint: use re-org points to keep the TRS moving more than once per turn and the Empire's troops reaching the front lines, which will be tough for the AI I think). it is best to play them thinking in terms of time, not in terms of units & losses. if you cost the Axis time, you did good. It is not completely intuitive. The real Allies sent in units thinking they could stop the Axis in places like France and Greece. With our perfect historical hindsight, and just looking at the numbers on the counters, we know that in some parts and places of the game, you can't stop the Axis. but you can slow them down, and even the defense of Russia against the terrifying 1941 Barbarossa begins in the Low Countries. but unlike the real Allies, commanders in WiF don't have to worry about losses, the pieces are just cardboard or pixels now. so they need to operate like those old Jay Leno commercials about Doritos "Don't worry, we'll make more..." as long as you have replacements on the production spiral ...

but yeah, if you were commenting on the job from hell I have running right now (blown estimate), I would respond like my favorite blues singer (Pigpen) does on one of my favorite records ("Bear's Choice") "let me make my mistakes on my own, I don't need your help"

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

ahh I'm sorry man, I'm not trying to beat you up. sorry that I was repetitive on my point. I just want to move the needle on what you consider 'good' for the CW. to wit:

the BEF lost a unit on the flank of Paris. perhaps you consider that 'bad'. but that probably gained the French an extra impulse....which they just used to re-take Marseilles. a development that might result in the Germans taking an extra turn to finish off France. which might result in the Germans clearing the approaches to Gibraltar an extra turn later....just as perhaps the weather rolls become a factor ... so the BEF accomplished something.

similarly, you were disappointed a major Royal Navy task force only damaged a couple Italian cruisers in the West Med. but you did clear the zone of Italian naval units ... how would that attack on Marseilles have looked with a couple of points of Defensive Shore Bombardment? that option can be very good for the Italians too.

anyhow, the CW is the hardest country to play and to learn to play well (hint: use re-org points to keep the TRS moving more than once per turn and the Empire's troops reaching the front lines, which will be tough for the AI I think). it is best to play them thinking in terms of time, not in terms of units & losses. if you cost the Axis time, you did good. It is not completely intuitive. The real Allies sent in units thinking they could stop the Axis in places like France and Greece. With our perfect historical hindsight, and just looking at the numbers on the counters, we know that in some parts and places of the game, you can't stop the Axis. but you can slow them down, and even the defense of Russia against the terrifying 1941 Barbarossa begins in the Low Countries. but unlike the real Allies, commanders in WiF don't have to worry about losses, the pieces are just cardboard or pixels now. so they need to operate like those old Jay Leno commercials about Doritos "Don't worry, we'll make more..." as long as you have replacements on the production spiral ...

but yeah, if you were commenting on the job from hell I have running right now (blown estimate), I would respond like my favorite blues singer (Pigpen) does on one of my favorite records ("Bear's Choice") "let me make my mistakes on my own, I don't need your help"

Two comments:

1. The Marseilles thing actually won't slow Germany down going after Gibraltar. There's no reason it can't do both at the same time. It does act as a pain in the butt, but not a major obstruction. In fact, it might be "good" for Germany in the long run, if the USA fails to make the Gear Up Production choice a second turn in a row.

2. Italian shore bombardment wasn't actually an option. Those units were in very low sea boxes, so they didn't have anything to contribute.

Actually, there's a third comment, too:

3. Sometimes, playing both sides of this game, it's strange how often I can actually "surprise" myself. All it takes is looking at things from a different angle . . . say offensively vs. defensively, or what can be done vs. what is likely to be done. I'd go nuts if I tried to plan all of it at the same time, so I generally only think about one side at a time. This gets strange results, like the French attack on Marseilles.