an this be fixed?

[freeboy]

Ok, not a game error.. EU
I have brit colonies as human, and they have large stockpile of pp
and brits are low and no way to produce and send transport points??
what do I do?

[Cad908]

freeboy,

The British Colonies can produce strategic transport points (STP). It may not be as efficient as the events, but it works.

IIRC, when the colonies are short, the British player gets a pop-up with the option to create STP for the colonies:

10 STP for 10 PP, paid by the British, or
20 STP for 20 PP, paid by the British, or
take no action.

The colonies can produce 10 STP for 20 PP (I think?) for their own use.

I think it is wise, early in the game, to have the British build the points for the colonies every time this option is triggered.

[freeboy]

I hae not gotten any popups FYI

[Cad908]

That is odd, I have gotten 4 - 5 in mine.

[freeboy]

well.. none for me, not one, perhaps its the brit colonies as human?
so transport points built by brit colonies.. somehow I thoght they had to come from England..
 

[freeboy]

deleated

[freeboy]

ok, finaLY had turn for brit colonies things look better

[freeboy]

so I add lots of trns, and they all get sunk in one turn ? WT*heck lol
seriously broken, need to be able to put convoy escorts on convoys

[Razz1]

No, you need to hunt down the enemy submarines.

just like in the real war.

[freeboy]

right, just like in the real war they put together large convoys with ESCORTS
please don't qoute what you don't understand

[Razz1]

Do some research. This is how they killed the wolf packs.

They hunted them down.

Your pretty flippant concerning you don't know what you are talking about let alone the game mechanics.

[Zovs]

Freaking really nice response dude, wtf...

[Cad908]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

right, just like in the real war they put together large convoys with ESCORTS
please don't qoute what you don't understand

Guys, rather than engage in a flame war, here is a suggestion. This is my layout for the southern approaches to Great Britain.

Each zone is covered by a fleet with 1 Cruiser patrol group. Some zones, Bay of Biscay and the Channel are covered with 2 fleets each of 1 Cruiser patrol group. The search mechanism, per the manual, goes by fleet. So, if I understand this correctly, two fleets of 1 Cruiser each would have a better chance at detection than 1 fleet of 2 Cruiser. (This may not be correct)

After 10 turns at sea, they are rotated to port with another fleet of the same composition taking its place. (The 10 turns is per effectiveness as hinted at by the developers)
The purpose of these fleets is to IDENTIFY subs and raiders.

When you identify subs or raiders, that is when you send in your "killer" groups. Killer groups are TAC air, a great location is noted on the map, and CV fleets. They sail to the location of the sub/raider and air strike them. If you get a raider, I send a surface group of a couple of battleships and a cruiser to the sea zone hopefully to engage. The killer groups should all have a commander attached, as should any TAC air designated for ASW.

You set this up in stages at the start of the 1939 campaign. I keep a similar structure in place around Scapa Flow, though it has more battleships and battle cruisers. I also look to repair my cruisers and CV's in the first months of the war. I tend to get better results from fully repaired fleets, though I do not know if this is important or just what I have seen to date.
(Again, speculation on my part)

Against the AI, you should over a couple of months be able to sink his starting fleet. Against a human, you would have to be more aggressive in moving your detection groups around.

FREEBOY: The Battle of the Atlantic raged, and it was a long and bloody mess. The decisive turn did not occur until May(ish) 1943, when Doenitz withdrew his wolfpacks from the main North Atlantic routes. The issue of escorts, per se, should be handled by the naval research level. Great Britain starts at level 2, by the time you get to level 4, I would expect that to represent significant increases in sub detection and convoy escorts without having to build dedicated ASW factors. Thus, the sub menace would recede. Until then, you must devote significant production points to STP, just as happened during the war.
Note: This is speculation on my part, and I would welcome the developer's view.


RAZZ: Are you a beta tester or connected to the development team? If yes, these kind of posts do not present the game in its best light to the community. This is very early after release, and there are going to be some teething problems. This is exacerbated by the fact that this is a small development team that really does not have all the resources they need. We would all love to have a comprehensive strategy guide released with the game, but do the devs have the time to put it together? Thus, the game will evolve over time. You do not want to turn off players who are posting questions, and yes, we can be a real pain in the arse.

[freeboy]

ok.. in 39 40 41 42 there was almost no hunter killer groups.. in the early war massive amounts of transportation happened, with and without convoys..
convoys used escorts..
my suggestion is that there be an additional element to the convoys making losses slightly lowerw than the death zone we are currently experiencing..
and yes, the GAME does allow for me to use my fleats as a asw blanket..
my harsh tone was in error, but really look at the history and PM me and we can chat however un civily in private

[Cad908]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok.. in 39 40 41 42 there was almost no hunter killer groups.. in the early war massive amounts of transportation happened, with and without convoys..
convoys used escorts..
my suggestion is that there be an additional element to the convoys making losses slightly lowerw than the death zone we are currently experiencing..
and yes, the GAME does allow for me to use my fleats as a asw blanket..
my harsh tone was in error, but really look at the history and PM me and we can chat however un civily in private

I agree with your points on the convoy war, just thought the dialog was getting a little tense.

I am grappling with this game, trying to understand what is going on, just as you are.

As to the Battle of the Atlantic, had I designed the game, I would have included:
ASW escorts
ASW research and doctrine (doctrine is only used for land warfare, I think?)
Long-range ASW air patrols dependent on technology level/doctrine

Now, I can also see that given the game scale, why they would not have included them and abstracted them in other ways. I would dearly love a design summary from the developers on these points, that would answer some of these questions:

Does increasing naval technology through research improve the chance of detecting subs? Lower the losses to convoy's when subs find them? Cause loses to subs when convoys are attacked? (have not seen this to date) If so, by how much? Great Britain starts at naval level 2. When I spend all the PP's and time necessary to increase this to level 3, how much of an increase is there to the questions above? Similarly, what is the increase at levels 4 and 5.

The funny thing is that I see a real diamond in this game, it is just now there are some really rough edges. It seems that release was rushed a little to get it out for Holiday sales. When they get through the first patches, hopefully a really vibrant modding community will develop. I am inclined to give these guys a little time, and see what they can do.

Sorry for the rambling reply, must be getting old.

[freeboy]

I agree, this game has great replay today.. against human or ai.. and tommorrow it will only get better

[doomtrader]

Those values are not increasing with the naval level development. I'm not pretty sure wouldn't it make the naval aspect to complicated. We wanted to make it pretty simple and from the other side to leave some parts quite abstracted and a little bit random as in real life.

[freeboy]

yes agred BUT I find the subs power a little too high as is currently
than ks

[Razz1]

Don't pay attention to the number of transports lost.

It is abstract and only a number.

What you need to be concerned about is the PP lost.

Who cares if it say's 1,000 100 or 10 convoys lost. It's the PP that counts.

This is the same as reading the data for land combat and air combat losses. X tanks X planes.

All these numbers are only for flavor purposes.

However, convoys do have a direct correlation with PP's lost. The quantity of PP's lost is correct. If anything it needs to be higher PP's lost.

Would it be better if you saw 30 PP's lost, 30 convoys, or 30 PP's lost 3 convoys lost?

In the beginning of the war you will loose allot. Same with middle. Even in late game you will loose allot unless you hunt them down.

This is the way it was in WW2.

Great Britain was on here knees.

The only thing that stopped it was the illegal transport of supplies from the USA.

That's one reason Hitler declared all shipping would be sunk going to Great Britain regardless of Political status. There's an event for War Order No. 154. Eventually he DOW'd the USA

Once you find the hot spots you will contest the sinking of transports. That will help.

No matter what happens your still going to loose convoys and PP's

It's War in the Atlantic.

Sea warfare is completely different than land combat and very few are aware of what to do.

That's why there is the strategy guide and extensive explanations in the manual.

Part of the reason why people buy the game is to have fun and learn.

If you were told exactly what to do... would that be fun?

Attack this city first with this type of force then this city, then that city with this force and you are guaranteed a win.

In the Battle of the Atlantic the AI changes it's tactics on both sides. Cad908 has already given us a good handle on how to start combat against the AI in the Atlantic war.

This is the first game that has a true Battle of the Atlantic with the Battle for domination on land.

This even has a Battle for Britain, which should be improved in the next couple of patches.

Britain needs to hold on and survive until the USA arrives, just as in WW2.

Your best friend is your diplomat.

[freeboy]

ok.. I did not play happy sub hunter as UK, the game is tough on you as UK, I lost France, of course, and in 40 have run out of pp.. AND pp and tranies are releated, it takes pp to build tranies that are lost so if all your transports are lost.. fyi I never did get the "create more pp" message.. so my pbem oponenet and I are restarting.. SUbs 1 destroyers 0