The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Anyway....KB retired southwest and passed again over my subs....guess what? not a single contact

Somebody with experience chime in .. but I do not think the code checks for passing over the top of a submarine but rather it seems to check if a TF ends a phase in the same hex as a submarines. Thus sub's do not act as pickets in WitP AE but more as "land mines" [you have to step on them or land on them so to speak ] Thus, those 8 hexes away launch points are pretty critical to station submarines .. as well as places that teh KB would get away to at full and mission speeds ..

Just a thought but somebody who really knows what's going on inside the game might comment .. these are just my observations of 210 plus turns of play ..

mmmm....really? that is new to me....if it is so...i've been using my subs in the wrong way for more than 1000 turns[X(][X(]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: bigred

ORIGINAL: ADB123



Unless something has changed in the Betas, any CV, CVEs included, fly fewer planes if they are in a shore/base hex. Only the AI is immune.

As an aside - all of the "ammo explosion" messages are a good lesson for everyone who wants to use their CVEs as Combat Carriers...

Good luck -

I read somewhere that CVEs in shallow water fly at 100%operations. CV/CVLs are cut to 50% operational launch ability.
Another question GJ. What was the size of the CVE TF?
Should we try to keep the CVE TFs under ship size of 14? I recall something about a CV TF "effected by more than 14 ships".
What was the commanders naval/air rating?
And what is the name of the commander.
Please excuse me for being obsessive analytical.

guys, they changed this a long, long time ago. CVs of all types are reduced to 50% air operations ONLY in port hexes now, not in all coastal hexes like the old days.

There were 7 CVE TFs, each with less than 200 planes and with decent leaders (i checked every single TF!). CAP were everywehere between 40 and 50 with 10 rest at different altitudes (from 1000 to 36k). Each TF was composed of less than 16 ships (mostly DE and DDs)...i think my disposition was optimal in terms of CVTF composition...Also Uruppu has an Air HQ present....so i really think i only got a really bad dice and roll this time...not saying that with a decent dice and roll i would not have lost some CVEs...but at least his raids would have been fought back with more decision....while, as you can see from the combat replay, my fighters were busy doing acrobatics or whatever else when his waves arrived

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Anyway....KB retired southwest and passed again over my subs....guess what? not a single contact[:@]

This may already have been mentioned earlier or something you are well aware of, but any chance your subs are set to remain on station rather than deployed in patrol mode? This could explain your lack of reactions, as my understanding is "remain on station" limits a submarine's ability to react.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Anyway....KB retired southwest and passed again over my subs....guess what? not a single contact[:@]

This may already have been mentioned earlier or something you are well aware of, but any chance your subs are set to remain on station rather than deployed in patrol mode? This could explain your lack of reactions, as my understanding is "remain on station" limits a submarine's ability to react.

Yes, remain on station cause i wanted to have every hex of the "sub-shield" covered...was it a mistake? seems so from your words....

Ok...i think i need to study some sub warfare a bit

Thx SqzMylemon (love your nickname btw![;)])

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Anyway....KB retired southwest and passed again over my subs....guess what? not a single contact[:@]

This may already have been mentioned earlier or something you are well aware of, but any chance your subs are set to remain on station rather than deployed in patrol mode? This could explain your lack of reactions, as my understanding is "remain on station" limits a submarine's ability to react.

and my understanding the reaction is only one hex and it is not an interception per se .. that is TF lands on adjacent hex so submarine "moves" over to attack but unless somebody like Alfred comments I have yet to see any Circles of Apollonius algorithums at work and have a submarine even within the partol zone intercept a TF rather it is my observation the check is made after movement is completed and then a reaction phase occurs ..

I can say figuring out where stuff will "land" has increased my sub operation encouters extermely but it could just be randomness at work too ...

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Anyway....KB retired southwest and passed again over my subs....guess what? not a single contact

Somebody with experience chime in .. but I do not think the code checks for passing over the top of a submarine but rather it seems to check if a TF ends a phase in the same hex as a submarines. Thus sub's do not act as pickets in WitP AE but more as "land mines" [you have to step on them or land on them so to speak ] Thus, those 8 hexes away launch points are pretty critical to station submarines .. as well as places that teh KB would get away to at full and mission speeds ..

Just a thought but somebody who really knows what's going on inside the game might comment .. these are just my observations of 210 plus turns of play ..

Not my understanding - they changed it in AE. Subs (and surface groups) can get you coming and going as well as where you end up. Don't recall the exact mechanics involved.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Anyway....KB retired southwest and passed again over my subs....guess what? not a single contact[:@]

This may already have been mentioned earlier or something you are well aware of, but any chance your subs are set to remain on station rather than deployed in patrol mode? This could explain your lack of reactions, as my understanding is "remain on station" limits a submarine's ability to react.

Yes, remain on station cause i wanted to have every hex of the "sub-shield" covered...was it a mistake? seems so from your words....

Ok...i think i need to study some sub warfare a bit

Thx SqzMylemon (love your nickname btw![;)])

GreyJoy,

I'd suggest trying patrol waypoints instead and see if that changes things for you. Just assign a hex to patrol like you did for remain on station and assign it however many days you want the sub to patrol that hex in the settings. I hope this will help, it can't hurt at least with your poor results of late so worth a shot. Happy hunting!

As to the SqzMyLemon...the less said the better [;)]. It garners a few comments now and again for a laugh so that's been fun.

[HansBolter]

If you only assign the first of the three possible waypoint locations of a patrol outline then the TF will patrol only in that single hex all day every day until it needs to return to port for refueling or rearming. This keeps it free to react as it is not set to Remain on Station and also keeps it in the single hex you want it in.

I do this all the time with coastal minesweepers and ASW TFs that I want to defend my ports against midnight minelayers and midget sub infiltrations.

[witpqs]

"Remain on Station" negates the React range setting. "Remain on Station" means "don't React". The developers explicitly confirmed this.

Patrol zones work great! In fact if you really want a sub (or whatever) to sit in one hex but still use a React setting, then just use a one-hex patrol (i.e. set only one patrol way point).

I agree with SqzMyLemon - use full-on patrol zones. They work!

[jeffk3510]

I click patrol aroung target, click the target, and forget about it.. maybe I need to look at my subs as well..

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

"Remain on Station" negates the React range setting. "Remain on Station" means "don't React". The developers explicitly confirmed this.

Patrol zones work great! In fact if you really want a sub (or whatever) to sit in one hex but still use a React setting, then just use a one-hex patrol (i.e. set only one patrol way point).

I agree with SqzMyLemon - use full-on patrol zones. They work!

The choice is between "remain on station" and "retirement allowed" are you saying in order to react retirement allowed must be set? That I understand is to allow reaction away from a force not to commit to combat?

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
As to the SqzMyLemon...the less said the better...

I've always been reluctant to ask what your lemon is...

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
As to the SqzMyLemon...the less said the better...

I've always been reluctant to ask what your lemon is...

I remain eternally grateful CR! Now back to GreyJoy's submarine woes, there's nothing to see here...er well...let's not take that literally. I don't want to have to change my handle to SqzMyWeeLemon. [:D]

[Cap Mandrake]

I believe there are mid-turn surface intercepts. I assumed this applied to subs too but, then again, I also believe the world will end in 2012 because of the Mayan calender.

I also believe there is some kind of "die roll" because even a late war USN sub with radar and internet access and washing machine could not hope to interect every TF doing 25 kts in a 40 x 40 mile box.

I do try to set the patrol box to the anticipated end of phase hex more out of habit than insider information. There used to be some kind of "wolf-pack" penalty in WITP. Not sure if it still exists or has been phased out b/o better coordination in late war.*


* Pretend I didn't read the manual

[jeffk3510]

You seem to be dodging the question like Rader's carriers are dodging GJs subs....[:D]

[princep01]

Ser Greyjoy.....so, a set back after a rather splendid advance. Yes, it was a disaster, but, you still have the strategic bombing aspect of your offensive at work. Your CVs are still intact and you have learned from both the disaster and the evils of chasing poison pawn, CV groups around the Pacific. Those CVEs were a bit forward and exposed, but, okay, it is water under the bridge now.

Looking ahead, I again counsel caution on your Honshu venture. You haven't experienced a true kamikaze attack yet. The conventional attack he just launched should give you some idea of what is going to happen when you do experience it. I do not like your choice of invasion sites, but you have obviously chosen your course. So be it.....just plan it carefully and fully, prep your soldiers well and then drive home the point my boy. Drive home the point. Good luck, ser knight.

As an aside, I too pondered Nemo's cryptic comment on the previous page....and I too was left wondering what it meant. But, whatever......Sail on, Oh Ship of State and grasp the laurel wreath of victory

princepBolton

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: princep01

Ser Greyjoy.....so, a set back after a rather splendid advance. Yes, it was a disaster, but, you still have the strategic bombing aspect of your offensive at work. Your CVs are still intact and you have learned from both the disaster and the evils of chasing poison pawn, CV groups around the Pacific. Those CVEs were a bit forward and exposed, but, okay, it is water under the bridge now.Looking ahead, I again counsel caution on your Honshu venture. You haven't experienced a true kamikaze attack yet. The conventional attack he just launched should give you some idea of what is going to happen when you do experience it. I do not like your choice of invasion sites, but you have obviously chosen your course. So be it.....just plan it carefully and fully, prep your soldiers well and then drive home the point my boy. Drive home the point. Good luck, ser knight.

As an aside, I too pondered Nemo's cryptic comment on the previous page....and I too was left wondering what it meant. But, whatever......Sail on, Oh Ship of State and grasp the laurel wreath of victory

princepBolton

Should that not read "Water over the bridge" with regards to those CVEs[;)]

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: Miller

ORIGINAL: princep01

Ser Greyjoy.....so, a set back after a rather splendid advance. Yes, it was a disaster, but, you still have the strategic bombing aspect of your offensive at work. Your CVs are still intact and you have learned from both the disaster and the evils of chasing poison pawn, CV groups around the Pacific. Those CVEs were a bit forward and exposed, but, okay, it is water under the bridge now.Looking ahead, I again counsel caution on your Honshu venture. You haven't experienced a true kamikaze attack yet. The conventional attack he just launched should give you some idea of what is going to happen when you do experience it. I do not like your choice of invasion sites, but you have obviously chosen your course. So be it.....just plan it carefully and fully, prep your soldiers well and then drive home the point my boy. Drive home the point. Good luck, ser knight.

As an aside, I too pondered Nemo's cryptic comment on the previous page....and I too was left wondering what it meant. But, whatever......Sail on, Oh Ship of State and grasp the laurel wreath of victory

princepBolton

Should that not read "Water over the bridge" with regards to those CVEs[;)]

[princep01]

Indeed, gentlemen, that is perhaps a more apt use of the old adage.

Ser Greyjoy, remember that you still have or will receive about 75-100 CVEs. There is no need to take counsel of your fears.

However, I ask you again to reconsider the landing sites in Honshu. The foe is certain to concentrate his forces where you are planning to land. Another strategic invasion away from the Home Islands would still leave you able to prosecute the strategic bombing campaign against his AC production, while landing where the foe is weak. Cutting off the oil pipeline is still a reasonable goal given where you are in the game. It also will cutoff easy further reinforcemnt of the HIs by troops currently still fighting in woebegone places like New Britain or New Guinea. The Phillipines offer many opportunities for quick and decisive landing(s) to further the goal of oil strangulation. I would counsel such a course, but if you insist on the brutal frontal assault approach, then do so after the prepping is quite well along.

As always,

Your tormentor and occasional mentor,

princepbolton

[yubari]

Ouch, bad Luck Greyjoy. Sometimes this game just seems to create absolute massacres despite all of the planning. The feeble performance of the CAP during the large battle was very strange.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
As to the SqzMyLemon...the less said the better...

I've always been reluctant to ask what your lemon is...

I always assumed that it was from a Led Zeppelin song based on a Robert Johnson original. The lyrics being "Squeeze my Lemon (til the juice runs down my leg)". It seems a very strange lyric, maybe it isn't actually anything at all to do with sour citrus fruits.