Ship Repair 101 Guide

[Richard III]

Many Thanks to both of you [&o]

[Oldguard1970]

What a grand Christmas present! Well done and many thanks.

[GreyJoy]

[&o][&o][&o] Thanks Guys....priceless

[Admiral Mitscher]

Much thanks to Alfred and Bullwinkle for this excellent resource, after one reading it has already clarified some of my misconceptions on this subject. [&o][&o][&o]

[John 3rd]

Outstanding. Made something murky and not well described into an understandable topic.

[CaptDave]

Excellent work, Alfred.  Thanks much!  Thanks also to Bullwinkle for his contributions.

I've added a Ship Repairs section to the Wiki, consisting of a sentence or two with a link back to this thread.  It might be worth putting the full text there at some point, but not yet -- at the very least, we need to wait for (a) any typos to be discovered and (b) for any "responsible opposing viewpoints" -- although there aren't usually many nits to pick with Alfred's work.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

Alfred does the the RW limit apply to shipyards as well? You haven't referred to it in your notes above and if a size 10 shipyard is capable of removing a POD from a single ship per turn then Pearl Harbour would be able to repair the battleships very fast (10POD per turn- spread across available ships under repair).

For interest the part in your post that has confused me a little is

Each damaged ship in the port (whether in “pierside mode” or “readiness mode”) undergoing IR employs a certain number of RW.

Regards,

Daniel

Section 12 of the guide only mentions "pierside mode" and "readiness mode". The silence on the other two repair modes was quite intentional as to the best of my knowledge, the RW conceept does not apply to them. Remember I'm not a developer and as pointed out in section 14 of the guide, I'm not privy to the inner workings of the repair manager so I can't say with 100% certainty that there isn't some kind of RW available to the hidden repair manager.

Nonetheless based on the public record I'm quite confident that the RW concept as explained by me in the guide is really limited only to "pierside mode" and "readiness mode". I say this on the following basis.

1. The only publicly disclosed source for the "supply" of RW is a port.

2. The only publicly disclosed equations detailing how the "demand" for RW is calculated only involve "pierside mode" and "readiness mode".

3. The other two repair modes are already significantly restricted in the nature of the repair points they can use to make repairs. Unlike "pierside mode" and "readiness mode" which can access repair points generated by various repair point sources, "shipyard repair mode" and "repair ship mode" are limited to expending only repair points generated by shipyards and repair ships respectively. As warned early in the guide, the entire repair process remains an abstraction and therefore I'm quite comfortable with the thought the devs might have viewed it as unneccesary to further complicate the process by applying the RW concept (which after all is not an officially sanctioned concept) to shipyards.

As to the speed of Pearl Harbor removing the POD, I did warn in section 14 that there are a few hidden die rolls. One of the points my research failed to uncover was whether shipyards generate on a 1:1 basis the same expertise to repair "major" damage. IOW, the manual identifies how many repair points are generated by shipyards. I think how they are applied to "normal" damage is clearly established. However when it comes to "major" damage, all that the manual says is that a shipyard can repair all major damage, it doesn't say whether the "expertise" generated by a shipyard to repair "major" damage is at the same rate as that generated to fix "normal" damage.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

Excellent work, Alfred.  Thanks much!  Thanks also to Bullwinkle for his contributions.

I've added a Ship Repairs section to the Wiki, consisting of a sentence or two with a link back to this thread.  It might be worth putting the full text there at some point, but not yet -- at the very least, we need to wait for (a) any typos to be discovered and (b) for any "responsible opposing viewpoints" -- although there aren't usually many nits to pick with Alfred's work.

Very wise to wait.[:)]

Since posting the guide, a developer has provided me with additional information regarding the inner workings of the "repair manager". As far as I recall, I don't think it has been publicly disclosed before, or at least I don't recall coming across it in my research.

I don't believe the additional information fundamentally invalidates the guide. However it does allow me to provide a better answer to be given than the one recently given to itdepends.

I have to be careful as to how I incorporate into the guide the new information. Potentially the guide could be made more complex for little practical benefit to most players. Micromanagers will love the additional knowledge even though they won't be able to actually act upon it.

As a teaser let me say that:

• there is a hidden qualitative difference to repairing "major" damage which makes it more inefficient to repair
• there is a hidden IRP cost which varies between ship classes
• there is a triage for ship repairs

These teasers, together with others, will be expanded upon when I revise the guide. Actual algorithms won't be provided, I don't have them either, but a fuller explanation of the repair process, in particular how the "repair manager" works, will be provided.

Alfred

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

As a teaser let me say that:

• there is a hidden qualitative difference to repairing "major" damage which makes it more inefficient to repair
• there is a hidden IRP cost which varies between ship classes
• there is a triage for ship repairs

These teasers, together with others, will be expanded upon when I revise the guide. Actual algorithms won't be provided, I don't have them either, but a fuller explanation of the repair process, in particular how the "repair manager" works, will be provided.

Alfred

I think I've seen something mentioned, or at least insinuated, before on the first two. The last is something new and quite intriguing. The depth of the model continues to astound me. Kudos to the devs ... [&o][&o][&o]

[Mac Linehan]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Alfred

As a teaser let me say that:

• there is a hidden qualitative difference to repairing "major" damage which makes it more inefficient to repair
• there is a hidden IRP cost which varies between ship classes
• there is a triage for ship repairs

These teasers, together with others, will be expanded upon when I revise the guide. Actual algorithms won't be provided, I don't have them either, but a fuller explanation of the repair process, in particular how the "repair manager" works, will be provided.

Alfred

I think I've seen something mentioned, or at least insinuated, before on the first two. The last is something new and quite intriguing. The depth of the model continues to astound me. Kudos to the devs ... [&o][&o][&o]

Pax says it well. I will wait (im)patiently for further revisions and addtitions; and it will be good!

Mac

[dr.hal]

Tis the season to be JOLLY... and this input certainly makes great strides in that direction.... Thanks to both of you. This is an important aspect of the game which separates it from the "masses" and you have made it so much more understandable. Thanks again. Hal

[d0mbo]

And finally i see some more uses to all the tender types, especially the AD and AG ones.
These ones care for DD/APD sized vessels. Those always need repairs! Tokyo express needs to keep on running!

Thanks,

d0mbo.

[dr.hal]

Alfred, I have taken the liberty of pulling all the tables and a few other things out of your very seminal work and placed them below. I do this because I'm one of those types that likes to print things out, but your input is very large, so its reduction into the tables makes sense. I also put it into REAL English (sorry, I couldn't help that, I had to do it, especially as my thesis had to be written in the "Queen's English"!) If you think I've done wrong, I'll remove this post. Thanks Again, Hal


Glossary of Abbreviations Used:

• IR* - integrity repair
• IRP* – integrity repair point
• POD – point of damage
• RW* – repair worker
• WR – weapon repair
• WRP – weapon repair point

Table A: Weapon Repair Costs

Rockets (all types) cost 50 WRP
Radars and ASW detectors cost 90 WRP
Mines and Torpedoes cost 120 WRP
Guns cost WRP equal to the effect value of the gun

Exemplar A: the 16in/50 Mk 7 gun has an effect of 2700, hence the cost in WRP = 2700. The WRP cost to repair a 20mm Oerlikon AA gun is 15.

Table B: WRP generated by shipyards, ports and tenders for weapon repairs

(Shipyard size x 20) [NB: there is a maximum cap of 300 on shipyard size]
(Tenders generate a fixed 250 WRP)
(Port size x 25)

Exemplar B: As seen in table A, the WRP cost to repair a single 16in/50 Mk 7 gun is 2700. Only a shipyard sized 135 will generate sufficient WRP in a turn to repair a single 16in/50 Mk 7 gun. If the damaged weapon were instead a torpedo which requires only 120 WRP, the repair could be effected at a shipyard sized 6 or alternatively by an appropriate tender for the type of vessel or alternatively at a port sized 5.

Table C: IRP generated by shipyards, naval support squads and crews

(Shipyard size x 10)
(Naval Support Squads/2) minus (Damage/5) for repairing ships in “pierside mode”
(Naval Support Squads/3) minus (Damage/5) for repairing ships docked in “readiness mode”
(Crew Experience/8)

Exemplar C: A size 10 shipyard will generate 100 IRP each turn. It therefore can remove a single POD each turn from a single ship in “shipyard repair mode”.


Table D: IRP generated by ports

Port size 1 generates 8 IRP
Port size 2 generates 27 IRP
Port size 3 generates 27 IRP
Port size 4 generates 38 IRP
Port size 5 generates 50 IRP
Port size 6 generates 63 IRP
Port size 7 generates 77 IRP
Port size 8 generates 92 IRP
Port size 9 generates 108 IRP
Port size 10 generates 125 IRP

Exemplar D: A single ship in “pierside mode” at a port size 9 will receive 108 IRP each turn which is more than what is required to remove a single POD each turn. If the ship were in “pierside mode” at a port size 5 it would receive only 50 IRP which would be applied towards removing a POD and the progress achieved (together with any assistance from the crew and naval support, see table C above) would be carried over to the next turn.


Table E: IRP generated by repair ships

(Undamaged, disbanded, unused tender generates 83 IRP)
(Undamaged, disbanded, unused ARD generates 100 IRP but used only for flotation repair on one ship at a time)

Exemplar E: Two disbanded in port AS will generate a combined 166 IRP which will be applied only to a submarine in “repair ship mode”, any other additional submarines in port but in “pierside mode” will gain no benefit from these IRP. However, if there are no submarines in “repair ship mode” but only in “pierside mode” then the IRP generated by the AS will be automatically applied by the “repair manager” to the submarines in “pierside mode”. Were the submarines to be in “readiness mode” they would not benefit from these IRP.

• 50 IRP from the port [see table D, port size 5]
• 11 IRP from the naval support squads [see table C, (40/2) – (45/5)]
• 10 from crew experience [see table C, (80/8)]
• 83 IRP from the AD [see table E]

Table F: Normal integrity damage of combat vessels repairable by repair ships

AD – DD/DE/APD/DMS/DM/AVD/E/TB/KV/PF/PB/PC/SC/AM/ML
AG – DE/APD/DMS/DM/AVD/E/TB/KV/PF/PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AGP – PT/MTB/MGB/PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – all ship types
ARD – flotation damage only to all ship types but only 1 ship at a time is repaired
AS – SS/SST/SSX

Exemplar F: A minesweeper (AM) with 39 “normal” engine POD will receive IRP from an AD, AG, AGP or AR. A submarine with the exact same damage will receive IRP only from an AR or AS.


Table G: Major integrity damage of combat vessels repairable by repair ships

AD – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AG – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AGP – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – all ship types sized DE and above provided the aggregated major IR damage does not exceed 5 POD
ARD – flotation damage only to all ship types but only 1 ship at a time is repaired

Exemplar G: A heavy cruiser with 3 “major” engine POD will be repaired by an AR. If it had 6 “major” engine POD, it could not be repaired by the AR.

Table H: Sundry expertise locations for repair of major damage

Merchant ships sized 1 to 1000 tons, where (port size x 100) = merchant ship tonnage
Barges, where port size = 4 or the repair ships AG/AGP/AR are disbanded in the port
Midget subs with “major” engine damage only, where port size = 6 or the repair ships AR/AS are disbanded in the port
Small craft ships up to 499 tons, port size = 4
Small craft 500 to 1000 tons, where port size = ship tonnage/100

Exemplar H: The ships listed in this table only benefit if they are disbanded in the port.

Table I: Supply of repair workers seeking employment

Port size 1 generates 8 RW
Port size 2 generates 34 RW
Port size 3 generates 81 RW
Port size 4 generates 152 RW
Port size 5 generates 250 RW
Port size 6 generates 378 RW
Port size 7 generates 539 RW
Port size 8 generates 736 RW
Port size 9 generates 972 RW
Port size 10 generates 1250 RW

Exemplar I: (see discussion following table J)


Table J: Ship demand for repair workers for ships in “normal repair priority”

Ship in “pierside mode”, demand = [(damage x 10) + (Ship tonnage/500)]
Ship in “readiness mode”, demand = [(damage x 20) + (Ship tonnage/500)]

Exemplar J:(see following discussion)


To illustrate in simple terms how supply and demand for RW plays out, consider the following situation. A 10000 ton cruiser has a total of 43 normal IR POD and is in “pierside mode” at a port size 8 with no other ships under repair. The cruiser’s “repair priority” is “normal” (see section 13 below for the effect if a different “repair priority” were assigned to the cruiser).

From table I, we can see the total supply of RW is 736. From table J, we can calculate the demand from this single ship for RW is:
(43 x 10) + (10000/500) = 450 RW


If the cruiser were in “readiness mode”, the equation then becomes:
(43 x 20) + (10000/500) = 880 RW

Table unlabeled: Descriptions of Priority Settings

“High priority” sees IR undertaken at 1.667 times the normal rate (provided there are sufficient IRP available at that location to pay for the worked overtime) but the trade off is that the ship imposes 2 times its normal RW utilization rate.

“Critical priority” sees IR undertaken at 2 times the normal rate (again provided sufficient IRP are present for the worked overtime) but the trade off is 4 times the normal RW utilization rate is incurred.

“Low priority” sees IR undertaken at the same rate as “normal priority”. The difference with “normal priority” is a ship on “low priority” is placed at the end of the queue and is only worked on if all the ships ahead of it have been attended to. Use “low priority” where you want to favor some other ships but are not willing, or unable, to pay the overtime rates.

[MaB1708]

Alfred and Bullwinkle,

thank you both for this fantastic piece of work, I am thrilled by your passion to pass on your knowledge - or is it just that you grew tired of ever the same questions on the forum? Maybe both. Whatever the trigger, thank you.

Martin

[CaptDave]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

Excellent work, Alfred.  Thanks much!  Thanks also to Bullwinkle for his contributions.

I've added a Ship Repairs section to the Wiki, consisting of a sentence or two with a link back to this thread.  It might be worth putting the full text there at some point, but not yet -- at the very least, we need to wait for (a) any typos to be discovered and (b) for any "responsible opposing viewpoints" -- although there aren't usually many nits to pick with Alfred's work.

Very wise to wait.[:)]

Since posting the guide, a developer has provided me with additional information regarding the inner workings of the "repair manager". As far as I recall, I don't think it has been publicly disclosed before, or at least I don't recall coming across it in my research.

I don't believe the additional information fundamentally invalidates the guide. However it does allow me to provide a better answer to be given than the one recently given to itdepends.

I have to be careful as to how I incorporate into the guide the new information. Potentially the guide could be made more complex for little practical benefit to most players. Micromanagers will love the additional knowledge even though they won't be able to actually act upon it.

As a teaser let me say that:

• there is a hidden qualitative difference to repairing "major" damage which makes it more inefficient to repair
• there is a hidden IRP cost which varies between ship classes
• there is a triage for ship repairs

These teasers, together with others, will be expanded upon when I revise the guide. Actual algorithms won't be provided, I don't have them either, but a fuller explanation of the repair process, in particular how the "repair manager" works, will be provided.

Alfred

Yeah, I figured there would be more to come, and just linking to the thread also preserves the string of comments!

Of course, the fact that I'm at the office and really should be working on a client's application for tax-exempt status, rather than perusing AE material, played a small part, too...

[dr.hal]

Alfred one thing that's not clear to me is a point concerning weapons. Are WRPs carried over or to say it another way, is there a % by which you can "reinstall" a weapon from turn to turn much like regular repairs? I don't recall you mentioning it, but it would seem logical to me for the game to allow this...as replacing a 16 inch tube all in one turn is the purview of only a very few places on the game board! Hal

[dr.hal]

One more thing Alfred, given that from time to time ships have to get underway quickly, can either weapons repair or other types be "interrupted" by an excursion and then resumed where it was left off? You have made clear that from turn to turn the repair points for systems, flotation and engineering spaces can be carried over in terms of a percent towards the next POD, but can a day, two days, a week be skipped and then upon the ship's return picked up from where the repairs left off (ie, 92% towards the next POD)? It might seem to some like nitpicking, but it could be important especially as a harassing tactic by one's enemy. Thanks in advance. Hal

[mikkey]

excellent work Alfred, thank you very much!

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Alfred one thing that's not clear to me is a point concerning weapons. Are WRPs carried over or to say it another way, is there a % by which you can "reinstall" a weapon from turn to turn much like regular repairs? I don't recall you mentioning it, but it would seem logical to me for the game to allow this...as replacing a 16 inch tube all in one turn is the purview of only a very few places on the game board! Hal

No.

OK, turning off <Terminus mode>[:)]

As stated in the guide, both WRP and IRP are not carried over from turn to turn. It is always a case of use it now or lose it.

As to carrying forward to the next turn the progress repair work achieved, one must understand the difference between WR and IR. The guide does say that WR is technically not a repair in as much as what is actually transpiring is substituting one piece of burnt and twisted metal with a brand new shiny weapon. Either the WR source "carries" in inventory the weapon and is therefore able to substitute in the new weapon, or it doesn't "carry" it in inventory and therefore cannot "repair" the weapon.

Americans might not understand the following phrase but older Australians will. Weapons can not be purchased on a "lay-by" basis. I deliberately chose the Iowa class rifles as the exemplar because there are only 4, repeat 4, locations where they can be repaired. To repair the Iowa class rifles you need a shipyard minimum sized 135. The only four shipyards meeting that requirement are:

• Eastern USA, size 300
• Seattle, size 200
• Alameda, size 180
• San Francisco, size 140

Don't forget these shipyards must be at 100% undamaged capacity to generate the requisite WRP. If the San Francisco shipyard were to be at a 5% damage level it would slip below the threshold until the shipyard itself were fully repaired.

It is extremely important that the player sends his ships with damaged weapons to the right WRP sources. There is absolutely no point in sending an Iowa class battleship to a port sized 1 and expecting that after 108 turns the "damaged" (really "destroyed") rifle will be repaired. It will never be repaired at a port sized 1 no matter what the player does.

IR are very different. With them you can carry forward progress work (but again I emphasise not unused IRP) because we aren't talking about substituting in things "carried" in inventory. Instead we are dealing with RW doing time sensitive things like hammering twisted metal into shape, cutting through steel to get access to parts of the ship needing repair etc. This is why I introduced the RW concept into the guide as it acts as a very significant speed limiter on the rate of IR.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

One more thing Alfred, given that from time to time ships have to get underway quickly, can either weapons repair or other types be "interrupted" by an excursion and then resumed where it was left off? You have made clear that from turn to turn the repair points for systems, flotation and engineering spaces can be carried over in terms of a percent towards the next POD, but can a day, two days, a week be skipped and then upon the ship's return picked up from where the repairs left off (ie, 92% towards the next POD)? It might seem to some like nitpicking, but it could be important especially as a harassing tactic by one's enemy. Thanks in advance. Hal

Willing as I am to field questions on ship repairs, I do remain outside of the developer circle.[:)]

Regarding an interruptus of a WR, logically following on from my preceding post the answer would be a confident no. If there were 6 gun barrels needing repair and the ship was at a location where only sufficient WRP were generated daily to repair a single barrel each day and the work was "interrupted" after 4 days, you would simply be left with 2 more days of work to complete the task. At least that is my take on the process, not having access to the code.

Regarding an "interruptus" of an IR. The honest answer is that I don't know although I suspect the answer is that if the ship is put back "on line", the progress work made towards removing the next POD would be lost. The loss of a day or two days progress is irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.

In practical terms I don't really think this is an important issue of concern because it takes 3 days to bring back a ship from "offline" status to "on line" status. Taking into account the triage aspect, which I will incorporate into the guide, I really don't think there are going to be that many occasions when a player will voluntarily interrupt their IR to sortie a still damaged ship, and if the "sortie" is unvoluntary, being brought about in response to pending enemy action, then serious questions should be asked of the player as to why the work was being carried out at a vulnerable location.

Alfred