weaponizing mining stations

[Gandalf]

ORIGINAL: RooksBailey

ORIGINAL: themetalcrow

that's cool but do you guys feel this is an exploit or have you seen ai empires arming their mining stations as well or what?

Going forward, I think DW does need to better define roles for ships and stations. Ship classes need more definition (the new carriers are a step in the right direction and a good example of what I mean), and freighters and bases need to be less free-form both to avoid possible exploits, as well as to make them more interesting for the player to research and design. For example, I believe civilian freighters should not be able to carry military-grade blasters unless the player researches "merchants of war" on the tech tree to permit such a design (just an example). This would provide more structure to the design process, as well as give the AI a chance to match the players designs. Same for mining stations (the player starts with an unarmed version but can research a militarized one if he wishes).

I disagree with a zero weapon limitation on starting merchants and mining stations. That's when you need self defense the most. A limitation of 1 weapon on both starting merchants ships (as it is now) and 1 weapon on mining stations (which can have more than 1 weapon currently) wouldn't be a bad idea if it could be tied to research that gives increased mounting capabilities.

edit> Also, before any such limitation is implemented for mining stations, the capability to retrofit them somehow will have to be allowed.

[Astax]

I play with weapons on stations.  It saves me quite a bit of hassle.

[Krippakrull]

I do arm some stuff as well, though it feels kind of wrong that the civilian sector has to pay for my heavily armed mining stations. To make it a harder choice, why not have the maintenance for any stations or ships that's more than a gun or two come out of the state budget? That way I'd still build pretty beefy mining stations at critical locations, but be hard pressed to make each and every station being able to single handedly beat most pirates.

[the1sean]

Elliot plans to release the next update for Legends sometime around late January. It will overhaul ship design, and will also include ship design files for each race. I will personally be updating those design files with lightly armed stations for ALL empires. The AI Empires will have their day in the sun!

[Rising-Sun]

ORIGINAL: Ares106

ORIGINAL: Shark7

You can put weapons on any station in game and they will still function in the role they were designed for. And they do quite the job of defending themselves.

My personal preference for stations is 6 shields and 6 Maxos blasters. Takes quite a while before pirates can get strong enough to over-power that.

but is it cost effective? assuming normal pirates on average distance.

Only cost for the private sectors, not the state. So becareful not to go too far or they can go bankrupted.

[MartialDoctor]

Putting shields and weapons on mining stations will increase the upkeep dramatically and is not really cost effective.  It will hamper your ability to expand without giving much return benefit.

It's much more cost effective to either pay off the pirates or defend your stations with small, patrolling fleets.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: the1sean

Elliot plans to release the next update for Legends sometime around late January. It will overhaul ship design, and will also include ship design files for each race. I will personally be updating those design files with lightly armed stations for ALL empires. The AI Empires will have their day in the sun!

Definately will be as well, will probably make the AI designs similar in power and defense as my own, but each with its own unique design features.

[tjhkkr]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: the1sean
Elliot plans to release the next update for Legends sometime around late January. It will overhaul ship design, and will also include ship design files for each race. I will personally be updating those design files with lightly armed stations for ALL empires. The AI Empires will have their day in the sun!

Definately will be as well, will probably make the AI designs similar in power and defense as my own, but each with its own unique design features.

Definately will be as well, will probably make the AI designs similar in power and defense as my own, but each with its own unique design features.

Which means I am probably going to get my tail kicked between my shoulders... and that is good.

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: Krippakrull

I do arm some stuff as well, though it feels kind of wrong that the civilian sector has to pay for my heavily armed mining stations. To make it a harder choice, why not have the maintenance for any stations or ships that's more than a gun or two come out of the state budget? That way I'd still build pretty beefy mining stations at critical locations, but be hard pressed to make each and every station being able to single handedly beat most pirates.

The most realistic solution would be to keep a running tally of "Defense Costs" for civilian ships and bases. You would tally up all the firepower, and it would equate to a certain annual cost that represents ammo, training, merchant marines, ect. You would then make the state pay for the Firepower, and the civilians pay for the rest.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

ORIGINAL: Krippakrull

I do arm some stuff as well, though it feels kind of wrong that the civilian sector has to pay for my heavily armed mining stations. To make it a harder choice, why not have the maintenance for any stations or ships that's more than a gun or two come out of the state budget? That way I'd still build pretty beefy mining stations at critical locations, but be hard pressed to make each and every station being able to single handedly beat most pirates.

The most realistic solution would be to keep a running tally of "Defense Costs" for civilian ships and bases. You would tally up all the firepower, and it would equate to a certain annual cost that represents ammo, training, merchant marines, ect. You would then make the state pay for the Firepower, and the civilians pay for the rest.

That depends though, if you do a Star Wars mod, then civilian ships were armed by default. Civilian ships were limited in how much firepower they could carry (like now), but stations were not.

I think some hard codes by be better.

[ehsumrell1]

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

Which means I am probably going to get my tail kicked between my shoulders... and that is good.

....usually what happens when a Star Destroyer crosses into the Neutral Zone and confronts Igard in one of his fleets Romulan Warbirds! [:-]




Ooops! (Did I start something?) [:D]

[LoBaron]

Interesting thread.

I habitually upgrade my mining stations with 4 maxos blaster and 2 extra corvidian shields
right when starting a new game. It doesn´t stop a dedicated attack of larger than escort
size ships, but it stops the average pirate raid from being a threat.

Never thought of this as gamey, but now I start wondering.

[Krippakrull]

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

ORIGINAL: Krippakrull

I do arm some stuff as well, though it feels kind of wrong that the civilian sector has to pay for my heavily armed mining stations. To make it a harder choice, why not have the maintenance for any stations or ships that's more than a gun or two come out of the state budget? That way I'd still build pretty beefy mining stations at critical locations, but be hard pressed to make each and every station being able to single handedly beat most pirates.

The most realistic solution would be to keep a running tally of "Defense Costs" for civilian ships and bases. You would tally up all the firepower, and it would equate to a certain annual cost that represents ammo, training, merchant marines, ect. You would then make the state pay for the Firepower, and the civilians pay for the rest.

I do like this, but maybe only have to pay for the firepower beyond a certain limit. A blaster or two on ships for personal defense doesn't seem unreasonable for the civvie sector to pay for.

[the1sean]

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor

Putting shields and weapons on mining stations will increase the upkeep dramatically and is not really cost effective.  It will hamper your ability to expand without giving much return benefit.

It's much more cost effective to either pay off the pirates or defend your stations with small, patrolling fleets.

Depends on how many weapons and shields you add. Also, stations are not cheap, and neither are the freighters and constructors that they supply. A lightly armed station can keep the pirates busy enough that weaker civilian ships can flee safely.

Also, I never pay pirates off, especially as a long term policy (unless I am using them against an opponent, and only then if they live very far away). It just gives them more money to buy more warships!

[Evrett]

Putting weapons on mining stations draws resources away from weapon components used in ships and stabases..if your AI goes an builds a bunch of mining stations you can get a bottleneck from all the resources being reserved. 

[Blueberry]

I redesign and arm my mining stations as soon as I start a new game. Two lasers on a mining station design won't hurt your budget considerably and one can think of adding some extra shields to compliment the thing. Some players prefer to add shields to let the station survive long enough for the cavalry to arrive. Others prefer to add some weapons and let mining stations deal with pirates on their own. Some people prefer to combine both options. It is all down to personal preference and style/strategy.

Never armed civilian ships though. It is admirable that this game offers players so many options on various levels of gameplay. Shame that I am too damn busy to get some gaming time.[:@]

Really looking forward to the January patch.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Evrett

Putting weapons on mining stations draws resources away from weapon components used in ships and stabases..if your AI goes an builds a bunch of mining stations you can get a bottleneck from all the resources being reserved. 

So you have your check on over-weaponizing your stations without having to hard code it. You can do it, I do it, and in fact once we can design ship templates all the races in my games will do it.

[Shark7]

Forum acting bad, double post, disregard

[the1sean]

ORIGINAL: Evrett

Putting weapons on mining stations draws resources away from weapon components used in ships and stabases..if your AI goes an builds a bunch of mining stations you can get a bottleneck from all the resources being reserved. 

Dead mining stations and freighters puts a bigger bottleneck on your resource flow. Maybe an issue very early game before you have one or two trade treaties to supplement your supply lines, so that takes oversight for a little while. However, nothing is as awesome as a vast, tough, reliable supply chain that can hold it's own until the cavalry arrives.

[adecoy95]

considering that by following the adviser for ship construction in my last game i had somewhere in the range of over a thousand military ships for a 30 planet empire, i don't bother arming civilian stations.

plus any money you spend in defense just means less stations/ships for the civilian sector, i dont even give the freighters shields.