Why P38s on sweep always arrives later than Heavies??

[hades1001]

Hi guys,

I have tried to put P38 closed to target, further to target, and same base with the Heavies.

But, each and every time, the P38s arrive later than the heavies. I have tested and play in PBEM for at least 10 times and reach this conclusion. This behavior is simply not right.

I'm really frustrated about this. And I tried to put my bombers on Naval attack in the morning and airfield attack in the afternoon. They simply don't fly!

Any suggestions please? I really want P38s to go in first, my heavies are taking heavy casualties to suppress Jap airfields.

[jeffk3510]

Would you mind posting your results.. not really enough information to come to a conclusion

[castor troy]

use your P-38 on day one, two and three to sweep and the bombers on day four. Not much else you can do. Of course you can do all kind of chicken woodoo and try out all you can possible set in the game but you won't be amused that the outcome will be the same. It's not always though your sweeps arrive late but if you want to make sure, then only sweep and don't use your bombers that day.

[GreyJoy]

Use em on escort. Believe me [;)]

[Treetop64]

Like Jeff said, more info would be helpful.
Morale numbers, number of available aircraft, skill levels. Command structure (are the bombers and fighters from different air forces or air groups?), supply levels, airfield level, stacking level, suppport level, etc...

All of these have some bearing on how effectively your bombers are assisted by the fighters.

[LoBaron]

The easiest trick is to set naval attack as primary and AF attack as secondary.
This is the most reliable way to do it but exposes your bombers in case there are naval targets present.
You can avoid naval attacks by avoiding nav search in the concerned area.

The less reliable version is to put the P38s on an advance base and place the heavies further away, the greater the range-
to-target-difference the better, plus set the P38´s at or close to the mission altitude of the bombers, or even consider setting
them lower.
Compare the cruise speed of the different bomber types to those of the P38, there is a lot of difference there, the slower
the bomber´s cruise speed the better.
The higher you set your bombers the more time they need to gain altitude and reach the target.
The higher you set the P38 alt the longer they take to reach the target with obvious implications on arrival time compared
to the bombers (this has nothing to do with coordination as there is none on sweeps).
Still this requires a good eye on the weather map because bad weather over the sweepers´ base can ruin your plan
and involves an ammount of uncertainty.

You also can alternate between sweep days and bomb days as CT proposed, which might be a good idea in a target
rich enviroment.

As long as the airspace is contested stay on the safe side, use CTs suggestion or at least make sure that you got the
numbers and escorts to avoid disaster if anything unexpected happens.

[hades1001]

I have tried to put put P38 5 hex from target and Heavies from 13 hex, no, heavies still go in first, what the heck.

I have tried to set airfield attack as secondary mission but they just sit in the airfield do nothing the whole day.

Greyjoy, will P38 on escort be slaughtered? I don't have much of them to lose...

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

I have tried to put put P38 5 hex from target and Heavies from 13 hex, no, heavies still go in first, what the heck.

I have tried to set airfield attack as secondary mission but they just sit in the airfield do nothing the whole day.

Greyjoy, will P38 on escort be slaughtered? I don't have much of them to lose...

GreyJoy has found that in his 2-turn game that escort works very well for him. Others playing one turn games have different results. Just a note ...

[LoBaron]

For one turn only or did you do several for statistical analysis?
Did you check for other reasons why your bombers didn´t fly? (Target DL, weather, airbase,...)


Because these hints improve the probability, not provide absolute certainty.

Statistics are an incremental part of WitP AE, as it should be for a great game representing strategic warfare with a logistics tail.


Sometimes I have the feeling that a lot of people around here think, the game is only fun when something they set up works out 95%
of the time they attempt it. This isn´t the case, and this is part of the fun of it.
You can only maximise chances. And minimise the impact of f****** up.

Sorry hades, the last section was not directed at you, that was just a general rant. [;)]

[hades1001]

I checked everything, weather is great, DL is great, everything is great. In fact when if I changed the airfield attack as the primary mission, they fly happy like birds, and of course, they arrive earlier than my P38Gs and shot down like flies. That's why I'm annoyed.

I won't post anything without a series of tests. It's just to much to post everything here. So I just jump to the conclusion.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Hi guys,

I have tried to put P38 closed to target, further to target, and same base with the Heavies.

But, each and every time, the P38s arrive later than the heavies. I have tested and play in PBEM for at least 10 times and reach this conclusion. This behavior is simply not right.

I'm really frustrated about this. And I tried to put my bombers on Naval attack in the morning and airfield attack in the afternoon. They simply don't fly!

Any suggestions please? I really want P38s to go in first, my heavies are taking heavy casualties to suppress Jap airfields.

Ask my opponent, USS Henrico. He's employed his P-38s very effectively in coordinated sweeps or in the escort role. He should be able to shed some light on your issues.

In the meantime, the other posters are right-more data, examples of your settings, Air HQ, base size, overstacking, leadership, USAAF / USNAF coordination issues, etc. etc., may be at play as well. Providing more information can only help others assist you with your gameplay.

Good luck!

[hades1001]

Thank you Chickenboy!

However, I don't have issue coordinate my P38s. I can easily has 75 P38s sweep at the same time. What annoying me is that my P38 always arrive later than my bombers no matter what setting I tried.

In your experience, does your opponent's P38s involve in combat earlier than his bombers? So that the defense will be at least weakened. Or does his P38 arrive later than bombers too?

[Treetop64]

However, I don't have issue coordinate my P38s. I can easily has 75 P38s sweep at the same time. What annoying me is that my P38 always arrive later than my bombers no matter what setting I tried.

Hades, getting the 38s to sweep for your bombers is a coordination issue.

You need to pay attention to the command structure of your air units, and make sure you have Air HQs nearby.

The bombers and fighters should ideally be under the same air group or, if under different groups, the same air force, with the Air HQ of the two groups and, preferably, the air force HQ present nearby (proximity of 5 hexes for the former, 9 for the latter). In other words, if the fighters and bombers aren't even under the same parent command, then they will likely not coordinate with each other. One command will fly missions when it wants, the other command will fly at a different time suitable for them. Hence, you get missed escorts and mistimed fighter sweeps.

Of course, adequate air support and airfield levels are necessary, too. However, among several other aspects, command structure and HQs go a long way in making effective coordinated air missions between fighters and bombers. Many neglect this aspect. Haphazardly selecting any random fighter unit on the map to fly escort for any random bomber unit on the map will usually result in less than satisfactory results. Planning is key.

Previously, there was a technical issue getting sweeps to coordinate, but I think that's been addressed in recent patches and betas.

Look here for more info.

Good luck!

[hades1001]

Thank you Treetop64.

If I understand it correctly, P38 sweep for heavies is a coordination issue.

Set them up in the same altitude will help the P38 to sweep before heavies? I usually sweep at 39,000 and heavies goes in at 15,000. That's a possibility here that I'm going to try. Thank you.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Thank you Treetop64.

If I understand it correctly, P38 sweep for heavies is a coordination issue.

Set them up in the same altitude will help the P38 to sweep before heavies? I usually sweep at 39,000 and heavies goes in at 15,000. That's a possibility here that I'm going to try. Thank you.

hades1001,

I'm at 'work', so can't access the game DB. What is the P-38 (???model you're using) altitude max? 39,000 seems unrealistically high.

Trying to cram the P-38's round (supercharger) peg into a square (high altitude performance = poor) hole may be part of the issue.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Thank you Chickenboy!

However, I don't have issue coordinate my P38s. I can easily has 75 P38s sweep at the same time. What annoying me is that my P38 always arrive later than my bombers no matter what setting I tried.

In your experience, does your opponent's P38s involve in combat earlier than his bombers? So that the defense will be at least weakened. Or does his P38 arrive later than bombers too?

Sometimes his P-38 sweeps come through before the heavies. Sometimes after. In my experience, this is not related to a specific plane type, as variable sweep timing can affect F4F, F6F, F4U-1, P-40K, etc. airframes.

As Treetop64 et. al., said above-it is a coordination issue. There are myriad variables that could help us provide you with more specific recommendations, so I'll leave that suggested information request there for now.

[ADB123]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Hi guys,

I have tried to put P38 closed to target, further to target, and same base with the Heavies.

But, each and every time, the P38s arrive later than the heavies. I have tested and play in PBEM for at least 10 times and reach this conclusion. This behavior is simply not right.

I'm really frustrated about this. And I tried to put my bombers on Naval attack in the morning and airfield attack in the afternoon. They simply don't fly!

Any suggestions please? I really want P38s to go in first, my heavies are taking heavy casualties to suppress Jap airfields.

If you check my AAR you'll see that my P-38s often go in ahead of my 4Es. Sometimes they will even go in when the 4Es don't fly.

But then, I never use P-38s as escorts. They are too good for sweeping. Send in three P-38 sweeps in first and you won't need escorts.

[hades1001]

Would you please share your exp of how to get P38G in before the 4Es? I'm desperately to know that!

I tried to use P38G at the same alt as the 4Es, no, they still go after 4E even when they are much closer...

ORIGINAL: ADB123

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Hi guys,

I have tried to put P38 closed to target, further to target, and same base with the Heavies.

But, each and every time, the P38s arrive later than the heavies. I have tested and play in PBEM for at least 10 times and reach this conclusion. This behavior is simply not right.

I'm really frustrated about this. And I tried to put my bombers on Naval attack in the morning and airfield attack in the afternoon. They simply don't fly!

Any suggestions please? I really want P38s to go in first, my heavies are taking heavy casualties to suppress Jap airfields.

If you check my AAR you'll see that my P-38s often go in ahead of my 4Es. Sometimes they will even go in when the 4Es don't fly.

But then, I never use P-38s as escorts. They are too good for sweeping. Send in three P-38 sweeps in first and you won't need escorts.

[ADB123]

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