Clankers East!! Baelfiin(ger) v Qball(sov) (no Q)

[Baelfiin]

Turn 15

Been slacking on AAR with holidays, will try to get caught up today!!

So after the mud in the north soviet zone on turn 14, I had resigned myself to _maybe_ getting another pocket or two and then prepping for the winter.

With the Russians thick as thieves in front of Guderian at Ryazan, I ordered him to turn north west, cross the Oka and drive towards moscow from the south keeping the Moskva river as a flank shield while attempting to pocket whatever we could.

At the same time Hoth gets redirected to swing south of the city to close the other arm of the pocket.
Using the fresh 2nd and 5th panzer divisions, along with infantry from 9th and 2nd armies, Hoth cracks the linejust south of moscow and 57th panzer corp is able to pour through. Surpisingly, they are able to get a bridgehead across the moskva river unopposed and then are able to roll up the weak forces that were defending the river for 20 miles.

At the end of last turn I was giving myself a 30 percent chance of taking moscow. Now it seems to be a certainty. I wonder how many dudes Qball is goiung to be able to extract?

[Baelfiin]

Turn 15

In the south my rail lines get partisaned again so supplies are even more desperate.

The russians have seen how weak I am across most of the Dnepr (rumanian horde not so impressive). They decide to make some attacks and get some cheap wins.

I am forced to bring 11th army troops back to the south to restore order.

At this point I think Qball should have been backing up here in the south to the crimean choke points, but he does not feel any threat from my panzers attacking from the north.

[sillyflower]

Have seen results of your turns 16+17 on QBalls' AAR.

You've done a lot to delay the fall of Berlin [;)]

[Baelfiin]

Turn 16

On the moscow front heavy fighting enables me to seal off the soviet capitol, 3 panzercorps gas up for one more dash on turn 17.

At this point I am in High risk, High reward area. From the way the russians are starting to route, and the tank brigades that are showing up in the line, it seems that the Red army is at a breaking point.

I am now looking at a drive north to cherepovets culminating in a winter link up with the finns. No seriously, thats the "new plan!"
Worst case scenario I catch a few more guys at kalinin area before the blizzard stops me for good.

[Baelfiin]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Have seen results of your turns 16+17 on QBalls' AAR.

You've done a lot to delay the fall of Berlin [;)]

Don't spoil it !!

[Baelfiin]

Turn 16

In the south we clear up our minor little pocket and look to do something about the Russian counteroffensive beating on my poor Rumanians.

Being a big fan of the Indirect Approach, I decide to continue driving south to the northern shore of the sea of Azov, brushing aside minor red army forces.
LAH takes a day to bathe and relax before heading back north to rejoin the rest of the corp.

My hope here was to stop the russian attack (or what looked like to me an attack) on the Rumanians. My expectation was that the Reds would back off the Dnepr and be back in force at the gates to the Crimea, leaving me free to contemplate my failure to once again come close to taking Stalino.

[ComradeP]

I am now looking at a drive north to cherepovets culminating in a winter link up with the finns. No seriously, thats the "new plan!"
Worst case scenario I catch a few more guys at kalinin area before the blizzard stops me for good.

You do realize, Baelfiin, that 1) it's unlikely to succeed at this point. 2) a drop in CV's due to the blizzard also means you can't attack the Leningrad hexes even when they're isolated with regular infantry units. Trust me on that one. 3)there are hardly any manpower centers there, nor is there any real reward for taking such a huge risk at this point.

[Baelfiin]

Turn 17

I'm not sure Qball was expecting me to continue to attack, especially with bad weather coming up. Big time gamble to keep pushing but I can't stop now.
I don't think that there are any real russians left up here, with the way they are routing they must be divisions of 4-2-6's....


Hoth charges north and breaks out, and Manstein battles his way to Kalinin to help encircle a major part of the russian line.

Guderian and the infantry of 3 armies slide up to seal the pocket that is formed..

[Baelfiin]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I am now looking at a drive north to cherepovets culminating in a winter link up with the finns. No seriously, thats the "new plan!"
Worst case scenario I catch a few more guys at kalinin area before the blizzard stops me for good.

You do realize, Baelfiin, that 1) it's unlikely to succeed at this point. 2) a drop in CV's due to the blizzard also means you can't attack the Leningrad hexes even when they're isolated with regular infantry units. Trust me on that one. 3)there are hardly any manpower centers there, nor is there any real reward for taking such a huge risk at this point.

You are most likely correct. I am hoping that Qball is going to pull out a lot of the forces facing 18th army to deal with 3rd panzer. I have the turn back from Qball now so I will post the what I see at the start of turn 18. The only thing I am looking at for a reward is killing more trained russian divisions, and causing as much grief as possible.

[Baelfiin]

Turn 17

In the south supply is still good, evidently rails get repaired before supply gets moved as we still have some decent movement available. No build ups down here last turn, just a range of between 30 to 40 mps.

I'm shocked to see that Qball didn't pull back from the dnepr farther than he did. Maybe his guys were short on mp's, but there was nothing to stop the blitzkrieg to the Crimean choke points. It must of been heartbreaking to see Panzer regiments crunching undefended fort regions.

Another high risk, high reward attack down here, IF I am able to keep the pocket closed. I may lose a bunch of tankers if the pocket leaks and we get mud next turn.

The rest of 1st panzer army, who have been out of gas the last 3 weeks, straggles down from the north to be in position to either break the pockets on my exposed panzers, or to drive on sevastopol if the weather is snow (hey it could happen!).

[Baelfiin]

Turn 18

All the way up to date now, This is what I have to work with.

The question is : with the snow in the north, should a I continue attacking? Settle for trying to Pocket some more goodies around Kalinin?

In the south I am just ggoing to try to reestablish some supply and see if I can hold on for another turn. The nasty russians have apparently flown every bomber in the russian airforce to bring supplies. I wasn't expecting that ( i should have been) but I have to deal with it now somehow.

[DTurtle]

I'd go for the pocket around Kalinin/Vorzhok near Moscow - you'll just endanger your tanks going farther from your rail heads, which can backfire very easily with the high probability of mud.

In the south, you could try to displace his air fields in the pocket. That would stop him from supplying them.

I hope you are prepared to fall back a large amount in the open area south of the Oka during the blizzard, as you have pretty much no defenses built up.

[Scook_99]

When gambling, you have to know when to keep going, and when to cash in. That's a pretty tasty crop of Russians you have in the bag right now, and have been given the gift of snow so you can cash that in. I keep looking at the north and don't see much else to bag. Why not free up your panzers this turn for future operations this winter, if you get the chance?

Near the Crimea, the chips are on the table, and neither you nor Q-Ball is going to fold. Play the dealt hand and hope you have better cards.

For the most part, the lines look pretty set for winter, so, do you think, maybe, I know it would be going against doctrine and all, but, maybe, try to fortify up just a little bit? Of course, you can just fall back until March, but that may a little prohibitive.

[Baelfiin]

@scook

one part of my overall strategy is to kill as many russians as possible. I think I may want to try for more russkies around Kalinin, but maybe I should go all in and drive straight north. 2 turns garunteed mud then snow starts again for 3 turns (could also get blizzard but special blizzard rules dont go into effect until december).... Smart thing to do is call it good at this point.

[Klydon]

The big thing right now is anything that gets surrounded and killed is not coming back for free anymore.

I will be interested to see how the Russian winter campaign goes at this point as this AAR is a bit different from the "dig in early" tactic that we have seen the Germans employ much of the time these days.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Klydon
I will be interested to see how the Russian winter campaign goes at this point as this AAR is a bit different from the "dig in early" tactic that we have seen the Germans employ much of the time these days.

Personally, I think that's just because most players just have no balls these days. Everyone's trying to min/max the system, looking for perfect plans among the common wisdom, and they've forgotten that war is a desperate gamble, despite efforts to pigeonhole it into nice, neat little strategems. If you can push and keep your opponent off his game, then do so, Baelfin. Damn the Katyushas! Full Steam Ahead!

[Michael T]

Personally, I think that's just because most players just have no balls these days. Everyone's trying to min/max the system, looking for perfect plans among the common wisdom, and they've forgotten that war is a desperate gamble, despite efforts to pigeonhole it into nice, neat little strategems. If you can push and keep your opponent off his game, then do so, Baelfin. Damn the Katyushas! Full Steam Ahead

Could not agree more.

[krupp_88mm]

yeah i have noticed what others are saying form my time in very competitive tournaments at top tier finals, there are two types of competitors, the doctrinal, who train and train and train with one strategy that is 'best' and they do very very well. Then there are those who are just attackers animals who are always clawing for a weak hinge, the doctrinal playyers often dont react fast enough or dont react strong enough and get knocked of balance. Of course this atack strategy is more risky, but somehow it always ends up happening the attacker ends up winning the tournament. If you always play safe youll never get to the top, you can get close but not all the way there.

[Peltonx]

You can always pull back during blizzard turns.

Forts and fort lines dont always work, but pulling back a hex or 2 per turn works.

As Jamiam says the attacker always has the upper hand. Game is largely based on morale. So if your attacking your morale is going up, if defending its going down.

There is a tipping point for the German as a large part of NM is based on a time line, but if you can keep morale up on the time line as long as possible it will take longer then historical to break the german army( 2.3 million) and you will be able to get a draw. Generally most Russian quit long before that so keep attacking were you can.

Pelton

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Personally, I think that's just because most players just have no balls these days. Everyone's trying to min/max the system, looking for perfect plans among the common wisdom, and they've forgotten that war is a desperate gamble, despite efforts to pigeonhole it into nice, neat little strategems. If you can push and keep your opponent off his game, then do so, Baelfin. Damn the Katyushas! Full Steam Ahead

Could not agree more.

I have tried about everything under the sun as far as strategems go and found that morale is the main issue on the battle field.

Not many russians or germans think out side the box, there are allot of cookie cutter players. But thats partly because the game is very complex and takes a while to learn the ins and outs.

The game was hugly changed after 1.05, it is really like playing something totally new.

The effects are only now coming to light.

Pelton