The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

GJ, I think this falls into the "duh" category (IE, I'm giving obvious and therefore unnecessary advice), but can you make use of the two-day turn cycles to basically make this a sneak attack. Also, can you use some feints early on to create a massive CAP trap or suface combat trap?

Yes, i'm trying to arrange a couple of tactical feints and traps...but it's not easy considering how close we are...he sees all my movements with his long range recon and naval search planes so he has a clear vision of what i'm doing...
However i've already tried a couple of cap traps in the last weeks...and none of them has worked out....but i'll keep on tryin'...the critical part of the operation is now the "getting close" from Bihoro to Hakkodate...we have a huge fleet 1344 ships and 9 hexes from Bihoro to Hakkodate...the question that puzzles my will is: is it better to load everything at Bihoro and then move directly to invade (so exposing my fleet for one turn in the land of nobody south of Kushiro) or it's better to strat move my guys at Hakkodate and move empty ships there so concentrating all my eggs in one single basket?....Hakkodate is very very exposed as you may guess...but Bihoro is only 14 hexes from Tokyo...and 6 from Ominato...so not that safe either....

[Canoerebel]

That's why you get paid the big bucks. Sounds like a tough decision. I think I'd load at Bihuro, but I arguments could be made either way.

[Canoerebel]

Why not have a mock loading period of a turn or two with all those ships at Bihuro - both to see if that causes him to react violently and to get him "used" to seeing massed shipping there?

[GreyJoy]

My fleet has been sitting there for weeks now...while i've been increasing constantly the CAP umbrella (covering every possible altitude from 100 to 40k feet) and Rader hasn't reacted yet...i think he's saving his big blows for when i get a bit closer so that he can escort his betties with army fighters from Tokyo instead of risking to base them in northern Honshu where my bombers constantly target his AFs...
 
However...here i came with a decision...i'll load at Bihoro...when everything will be ready i'll move to Kushiro (south of Bihoro) and move there my whole CAP (already moving radars equipped units to Kushiro)...and from Kushiro i'll invade...will be slower...and he for sure will be waiting for me....but so i should get a chance for a CAP trap or a demi-feint...we'll decide at the moment we get there...but i wanna keep some doors open....
 
In the meanwhile my DS will move in...

[pat.casey]

Have to think another part of the issue is he's got to be recovering his airframes.
The big battle over your CVEs cost you a lot of CVEs but it also cost him a lot of planes ... if I recall it was a disproportionate number of the torpedo carrying variants too.
Not implausible that his anti-ship strength now is actually lower than it was prior to that battle ... less airframes and/or lower quality pilots.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: pat.casey

Have to think another part of the issue is he's got to be recovering his airframes.
The big battle over your CVEs cost you a lot of CVEs but it also cost him a lot of planes ... if I recall it was a disproportionate number of the torpedo carrying variants too.
Not implausible that his anti-ship strength now is actually lower than it was prior to that battle ... less airframes and/or lower quality pilots.

Yes, Rader told me he lost 600 pilots in that operation....but still he must have thousands of pilots by now...trained in all these years...i don't rely too much on his weakness...

My fighters are still superior to his own...i just hope the tuning made my micheal will give my CAp a better chance to stop his waves...if it isn't so...this whole operation is condemned to fail even before starting....

[JohnDillworth]

Are your loading ports close enough to the landing beaches to make use of all those little landing craft you now have access too? IF not, what are your plans for the small landing craft? Supply?
thanks

[GreyJoy]

7, 8 August 1944
 
We bombed with the 2Es Ominato Af and with the 4Es enemy troops at Hochinoe.
 
The Hochineo mission was a success...despite the heavy flak (Rader has put there many AA units) that caused 7 losses in the 4Es lines, we cause more than 3500 casualities in 2 days...not bad!...Rader has many divisions there...but most of them are divided into regiments...which, as far as i know, isn't a good thing...
 
Anyway...we reconned Iwo Jima...he has 500 bombers there! That's the place where he keeps his Betties...i'm pretty sure about that...
 
John...yes, Hakkodate is close enough (2 hexes) and it's a pretty decent port (level 7) so i'll be using waves and waves of landing barges to keep a constant flow of supplies...along with waves of PTs...
 
But if my 4Es can achieve these results...well...everything could be doable...Rader, sooner or later, will be forced to LRCAP his troops...
 
Now back to a massive Ominato bombing...with the 4Es that will bomb another armament factory in Manchuria...
 
More planes are flowing to Tokyo...let's get ready!

[GreyJoy]

In reply to Crsutton....i agree with you. Also consider that with the second and third wave we'll more than double those numbers, both in terms of infantry units and in terms of armour and artillery!

[GreyJoy]

Aug 9, 10 1944

Micheal's exe file seems to be working very well....Rader set up an ambush...150 of his fighters on LRCAP against an heavy escorted bombing mission against Ominato....his fighters, despite having the same numbers of my escorts, did a wonderfull job in mauling the escort...making a lot of firing passages...defenetly an improovement!

Lost 50 pilots today...[:(]

Ok guys...we're ready to go...my CVs have left their anchor at Midway and are now moving north west.... I've set up the landing TFs at Bihoro for the first wave...780 ships...[X(].
We'll start loading next turn...then we'll move to Kushiro, always under a strong CAP umbrella...then directly to Hochinoe... from next turn we'll start a series of heavy naval bombing of the landing site...

Our bombers will attack again his troops tomorrow...

We closed another armament factory in Manchukoku...so far so good...


things are getting serious now...fasten your seatbelts[8D]

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Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 101
Ki-100-I Tony x 43



Allied aircraft
Liberator B.III x 12
Liberator B.VI x 34
Mosquito FB.VI x 4
Wellington B.X x 15
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 15
B-24J Liberator x 92
B-25D1 Mitchell x 45
B-25H Mitchell x 63
B-25J1 Mitchell x 3
FM-2 Wildcat x 18
F4U-1 Corsair x 28
F4U-1A Corsair x 84
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 24
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 44
PV-1 Ventura x 24


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.III: 1 damaged
Liberator B.VI: 1 damaged
Mosquito FB.VI: 1 destroyed
Wellington B.X: 1 destroyed
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged
FM-2 Wildcat: 3 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 2 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 14 destroyed
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 2 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
81 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled



Airbase hits 140
Airbase supply hits 12
Runway hits 326

CAP engaged:
S-304 Hikotai with N1K1-J George (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(53 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 50 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
S-311 Hikotai with N1K1-J George (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(48 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 45 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
19th Sentai with Ki-100-I Tony (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(43 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 40 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 74
Ki-100-I Tony x 31



Allied aircraft
Liberator B.III x 3
Liberator B.VI x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 18
B-25D1 Mitchell x 9
B-25H Mitchell x 12
FM-2 Wildcat x 27
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 24
PV-1 Ventura x 12


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 2 damaged
FM-2 Wildcat: 10 destroyed
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 1 damaged



Airbase hits 17
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 71


CAP engaged:
S-304 Hikotai with N1K1-J George (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 6 scrambling)
23 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 389 minutes
22 planes vectored on to bombers
S-311 Hikotai with N1K1-J George (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 33 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
19th Sentai with Ki-100-I Tony (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 26 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes

Banzai! - Kusumoto N. in a N1K1-J George rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor


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Morning Air attack on Mukden , at 104,42

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 106


Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 8 damaged



Armament Assembly hits 62

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mukden , at 104,42

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 14


No Allied losses



Armament Assembly hits 4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mukden , at 104,42

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 80


Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 5 damaged



Armament Assembly hits 7

[GreyJoy]

.

[JohnDillworth]

BTW, something I learned playing Downfall.  Your CV task forces (presumably all Task Forces)will run out of AA ammo, sometimes in the same turn, if they are attacked by many waves of kamis and bombers.  The answer is keep an AE mixed in.  I think they may be seeing many waves so you don't want to be caught without ammo.  just my observation

[Dan Nichols]

I don't think that works until 1945. Up to 1945 the AEs have to be at a port. I think a size 0 will work.

[jmalter]

hi JohnD,

i don't think AEs are capable of rearming at sea until 1/45, & wouldn't they need to be in a ReplTF ?

your concern about running out of AA ammo is valid, also gunfire-support ships in AmphTFs can run out of 5" ammo - 2 reasons i'm leery of 2-day turns! i like to shuttle fresh ships into my AmphTFs - perhaps the answer is to go w/ 94-ship AmphTFs, & to provide 6-ship NGS TFs (2CA/CL & 4DD) set to merge on the 2nd day?

[princep01]

Hi Ho, Hi Ho, it's off to kill we go. We'll shoot them and cut them; we'll bomb their little homes. We'll burn them and crush them; we'll snip their little toes. Oh it will be a grand time, a great time, a swell time you know. It's time to go a pillagin' and blastin' them; 'tis so.

Princep leans out over the heaving bow of the USS New Jersey, arms stretched out as if flying. Greyjoy holds him back from falling into the sea in front of the mighty behemoth. Princep, in anticipation of the great events to come shouts, "ONWARD, Admiral Ser Greyjoy, ONWARD"!!


Meanwhile, above the churning sea flies Emily Flt 541 over northen Pacific in vicinity of Kurile Islands.

Radio squelch noises...... FLT 541 to base. We see many ships. All kinds ships, ships as far as the eye can see from 4000 meters. We see every kind of ship except large aircraft carriers. Some small aircraft carriers. Can the Americans have so many ships that they cover all Pacific Ocean from San Francisco to Kuriles? What have we wroth? All ships pointed at northern Honshu. All the devils in hell are headed for the sacred isles. I think I see the end of the world. Turning to evade incoming CAP fighters.......

Transmission ends.

[krupp_88mm]

The US recommended 100 battalions for a mainland invasion of japan, and your going in with how many?

[jeffs]

Would it make any sense to have a 4E run on Iwo to crush the Bettys there? I am sure he will just run many back into Tokyo/Yokohama airfields to nail your fleet....

[CaptBeefheart]

[Rubs hands in anticipation.] Well, I'd bet you'll be hitting those clear-terrain bases behind Ominato. That's where I'd land, anyway, barring some sort of golden opening farther down the Sea of Japan coast. And I believe Jeffs has a great idea in bombing the bombers on Iwo, which is presumably within range of at least the -29s. You should probably hit the port of Tokyo at least once more to dent his surface fleet a bit as well. Also, I think I'd load most of the invasion troops behind the lines at Bihoro with a couple of divisions going in by barge from Hachinohe.

Regardless, you'll figure out the best way and no doubt succeed, and surprise us all (except Nemo) in the meantime.

Good luck!

Cheers,
CC

[jeffs]

If Iwo has 500 planes then it is way overpacked...........

[CaptBeefheart]

Even a Fletcher bombardment group might do a fair amount of damage there. I wouldn't risk anything bigger.

Cheers,
CC