The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[Olorin]

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

GREYJOYGETYOUROLDAVATARBACKASAP

I concur.

[CT Grognard]

The Japanese square division had on paper 25,000 men. Consisted of two infantry brigades consisting of two infantry regiments each.

Each infantry regiment consisted of three infantry battalions, so a square division had a total of 12 infantry battalions.

In addition to this there was one artillery regiment (with one 105mm battalion and four 75mm battalions), a cavalry battalion, an engineer battalion and a transport regiment.

The Japanese triangular division had on paper 20,000 men. Organisation almost identical to the square division except that as opposed to two infantry brigades, there were three infantry regiments with three infantry battalions each.

[paullus99]

The number of Japanese divisions that met this criteria, even before the start of the war was fairly small - most divisions had anywhere from 4500 men to maybe 18,000 max, but they tended towards lower end of the scale as the war went on.

[crsutton]

Greyjoy,

It is now coming back to me. I was very drunk at the time but I am pretty sure that I slept with this woman in 1986...Either that or I had sex with a Wookie-for which I am not proud.....

[Karsten]

At the end of the war this got al a bit more messed up
Example:
1937-1940 114th Division
• 127th Infantry Brigade
o 66th Infantry Regiment
o 115th Infantry Regiment
• 128th Infantry Brigade
o 102nd Infantry Regiment
o 150th Infantry Regiment
• 120th Field Artillery Regt
• 118th Cavalry Regiment
• 114th Engineer Regiment
• 114th Transport Regiment

1944 114th Division
• 83rd Infantry Brigade (199th, 200th, 201st, 202nd Independent Infantry Battalion)
• 84th Infantry Brigade (381st , 382nd, 383rd, 384th Independent Infantry Battalions)
• Labor troops
• Signal communication

The late war coastal defence unit were again square type:
143rd Division 1945
143rd Division was one of eighteen Coastal Defense Divisions raised by the Japanese to defend the coast of their homeland from an
anticipated Allied invasion, on the 28th of February 1945. Each Division of the series between 140 and 160 had four infantry
regiments. The 145th Division had 409th, 410th, 411th, and 412th Infantry Regiments with other artillery, engineer, antitank, rockert
artillery, and other divisional units.

Then there was also a type of binary (2 regimental) security versions.

All above is a summary based on several wikipedia entries

[GreyJoy]

August 15, 16 1944
 
While our loadings continue at Bihoro (we had to stop for one turn and flee the port cause we feared another mass attack), Rader tried to set up another CAP trap at Ominato. this time we sniffed it and we let our bombers rest for one turn, leaving to our BBs to bomb Ominato. We lost 3 DMSs but more mines are now swept and 76 enemy's a/c are torched on the ground. We learnt not to fear those 200cm static guns that much when bombing from 30k yards.
The first wave is now almost loaded, while our CVs are getting closer to the theatre.
I've organized my CVs in TFs composed of 190 a/c each...so that we are well below the coordination penalty limit.
Each TF is following a surface TF which is following an ASW TF which is following a DD Division...hope this lower the chances of a sub attack and of a unwanted reaction by a single TF
 
1000 bombers and 1500 fighters are now spotted at Tokyo...[X(]...time is running fast...and the day of truth is getting closer...
 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 62 encounters mine field at Ominato (119,54) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
 
76 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
 
Allied Ships
      DMS Hobson, Shell hits 3,  on fire
      DMS Palmer, Shell hits 8,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
 
 
 
Mutsu Bay Fortress firing at DMS Hobson
Mutsu Bay Fortress firing at DMS Palmer
23 mines cleared
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 68 encounters mine field at Ominato (119,54) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
 
159 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
 
Allied Ships
      DMS Perry, Shell hits 19,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      DMS Lamberton, Shell hits 8,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      DMS Southard, Shell hits 21,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
 
 
 
Mutsu Bay Fortress firing at DMS Perry
Mutsu Bay Fortress firing at DMS Lamberton
Mutsu Bay Fortress firing at DMS Southard
42 mines cleared
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Ominato at 119,54
 
Japanese aircraft
      no flights
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M5 Zero: 39 damaged
      A6M5 Zero: 12 destroyed on ground
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 74 damaged
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 16 destroyed on ground
      Ki-100-I Tony: 26 damaged
      Ki-100-I Tony: 7 destroyed on ground
      A6M5c Zero: 12 damaged
      A6M5c Zero: 5 destroyed on ground
      J1N1-C Irving: 1 destroyed on ground
 
Allied Ships
      BB Washington
      BC Renown
      CA Exeter
      CA Louisville
      CA Portland
 
Japanese ground losses:
      231 casualties reported
         Squads: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
         Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 19 disabled
         Engineers: 3 destroyed, 8 disabled
      Guns lost 11 (1 destroyed, 10 disabled)
      Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)
 
 
 
Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 53
Port hits 3
Port supply hits 1
 
OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for BB Washington
BB Washington firing at General Defence Army
BC Renown firing at Ominato
Walrus II acting as spotter for CA Exeter
CA Exeter firing at Ominato
CA Louisville firing at Ominato
CA Portland firing at Ominato
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Ominato at 119,54 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
 
Japanese aircraft
      no flights
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed on ground
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 damaged
      Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed on ground
      A6M5c Zero: 7 damaged
      A6M5c Zero: 2 destroyed on ground
      Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed on ground
 
24 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
 
Allied Ships
      BB Queen Elizabeth
      BB Valiant
 
Japanese ground losses:
      69 casualties reported
         Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
         Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 8 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
      Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
      Vehicles lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)
 
 
 
Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 3
Port hits 2
 
BB Queen Elizabeth firing at Ominato
Walrus II acting as spotter for BB Valiant
Mutsu Bay Fortress firing at BB Valiant
BB Valiant firing at Mutsu Bay Fortress
 
 
 
 
About my Paras...i only have a para division with me in the north...will use it at Hachinoe as soon as i see a chance for a shock attack[;)]
 
Crsutton...you lucky boy[:D]

[cwDeici]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: cwDeici

1 Division is about 3 regiments which are about 2 batallions a piece, so you're invading with 120 batallions over 100. Seems a bit shy considering Japan has much more left than OTL, very risky but definitely doable.

The US, like most countries used a triangular formation in WW II meaning that all subunits formed in threes. Three squads to a platoon, three platoons to a company, three companies to a battalion, three battalions to a regiment and three regiments to a division.

In late war Germany reduced infantry divisions to two battalions per regiment and eventually even reduced them to two regiments per division.

Don't know enough about Japanese force structure to be able address that aspect intelligently.

US force structure would reflect a standard of 9 battalions per division so Greyjoys estimate of 100 batallions equaling 12 divisions is accurate.

20 US divisions would equal 180 battalions. That would seem to be an impressive force for an invasion.

Thanks for the info!

[GreyJoy]

About the strenght of my landing forces...guys, i didn't do all those calculations...this is simply everything i have to throw to him...so it was this or nothing.
 
Rader, after the last ground bombings at Hachinoe is clearly moving in all the AAs he has in Japan...i can clearly see it. So we're gonna try to exploit this and tomorrow we'll bomb Ominato AF and the troops stationing at Aika, while our navy will bomb again Hachinoe...will try to make his life the the hardest possible

[Dan Nichols]

Why keep losing DMSs at Ominato? If you are using BBs at 30K, then mines should not be a problem. Stop it.

[GreyJoy]

To counter the shore batteries we'll find at Hachinoe i've very carefully formed our landing TFs.
Each TF will have dedicated fire platforms. so to say we'll have LSD, LVM, LCI (G) in every TF, with a BB, several DDs, SCs and APDs...i think my transports should be pretty much safe with these combinations. Obviously some of them will get hit and sink...but i think, with a decent support by our Bombardment TFs and by our 4Es we can efficiently suppress his shore guns....
 
The real problem remains the air threat...
 
I've done everything to provide a good cover. 1400 fighters are guarding the landings at Bihoro now, while 900 more are based at Hakodate.
When the landings will occur i'll have on LRCAP over my fleet more than 1500 fighters...this for sure won't assure the total safety of my ships...but at least i hope it will be enough to severly distrupt the enemy formations...however i think i cannot do more than that...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

Why keep losing DMSs at Ominato? If you are using BBs at 30K, then mines should not be a problem. Stop it.

They remains a problem afaik. Last time we hit Ominato one of our CA (Luisville) was struk by a mine despite being set to bomb at 30k yards...

However now i have no more DMSs to spare so i'll be forced to stop [:D]

[soticrandy]

Too late for this but could GreyJoy have used the local mine sweepers in suicide mine sweeping task forces?

[princep01]

We're all gonna die.....might as well go out in a blaze of Honshu invading fun. Few can say....been there, done that. Have a great time, Ser Greyjoy!

princepBolton, hauling a Radio Flyer full of "fun and entertaining stuff" and sporting Mickey Mouse Ears, boards the USS New Jersey, a happy man. He mutters, "It's a great day to die".

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

Why keep losing DMSs at Ominato? If you are using BBs at 30K, then mines should not be a problem. Stop it.

They remains a problem afaik. Last time we hit Ominato one of our CA (Luisville) was struk by a mine despite being set to bomb at 30k yards...

However now i have no more DMSs to spare so i'll be forced to stop [:D]

This could also make rader wonder about the actual landing place, even a Division in the wrong place could make a big difference.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: princep01

We're all gonna die.....might as well go out in a blaze of Honshu invading fun. Few can say....been there, done that. Have a great time, Ser Greyjoy!

princepBolton, hauling a Radio Flyer full of "fun and entertaining stuff" and sporting Mickey Mouse Ears, boards the USS New Jersey, a happy man. He mutters, "It's a great day to die".

Valar Morghulis my friend...all men must die

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

Why keep losing DMSs at Ominato? If you are using BBs at 30K, then mines should not be a problem. Stop it.

They remains a problem afaik. Last time we hit Ominato one of our CA (Luisville) was struk by a mine despite being set to bomb at 30k yards...

However now i have no more DMSs to spare so i'll be forced to stop [:D]

This could also make rader wonder about the actual landing place, even a Division in the wrong place could make a big difference.

Yes, altough i'm obviously concentrated on hachinoe, i'm trying to bomb all the possible landing sites in order to keep him busy guessing where i'm actually landing.

Last turn 17,18 august 1944 we bombed his troops at Aitka and Ominato, while my BBs pounded hachinoe...some skermishes with some jacks on lrcap but nothing too serious....our escort did it right (used a mix of LRCAP and escort this time).

We are now fully loaded and ready to move....let's go guys!!!!

A glorious defeat or a glorious victory is waiting for us....which of the two it doesn't really matter!!!!!

[GreyJoy]

So guys here we go....tomorrow we'll leave bihoro with 795 ships....first step:kushiro

[Grfin Zeppelin]

Here, a little something to bring anyone into the right mood

Installsendmeallyourdatavirus

[JohnDillworth]

We're all gonna die.....might as well go out in a blaze of Honshu invading fun. Few can say....been there, done that. Have a great time, Ser Greyjoy!

princepBolton, hauling a Radio Flyer full of "fun and entertaining stuff" and sporting Mickey Mouse Ears, boards the USS New Jersey, a happy man. He mutters, "It's a great day to die".

I hate to be a downer but I want to go on record as this invasion failing. You folks can hold me to this. I can't exactly say why, but there are 500 Betty's unaccounted for, lots of kami's the KB, surface assets and a formidable opponent. I know he has something planned. I am routing for you GJ, and I wouldn't do much different (except land further south) but mark me in the "bridge too far" column. That being said, give em hell!! Time to put up guys, what do you think?

[Canoerebel]

I hereby go on record to say that the invasion will succeed.

That's the difference between John, a Yankee, and me, a Rebel. See, I'd set out to invade Maryland or Pennsylvania and think I'd succeed. John would be sure that I wouldn't.