MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

In the CW Combined Action, I'll need both naval moves to reduce sea box sections in both Med sea areas, but after that, I'm thinking about using the Plymouth fleet against the SUBs instead of the German North Sea Fleet. They are very annoying, sitting there in the Bay of Biscay, and while Rob (warspite1) may object to this, the North Sea is not as strategically important at the moment.

I'd appreciate thoughts on this, as well.

If Germany doesn't decide to use the offensive chit for the reorganisation of the HQ's, he might be tempted to use a combined or even naval impulses to try to get his SUB's into play. This should than mean the CW should be prepared to defend the convoys. Also: the Cape St. Vincent isn't going to be a save place for CW convoys anymore, since the Italian Fleet might sortie from Gibraltar next turn, aimed at the CW shipping line. You need to review the total CW convoy deployment. You've to calculate how you are going to get the highest number of resources into the UK, without having convoys in the Bay of Biscay or Cape St. Vincent. If you don't, coming winter might see a lot of convoy points killed by German and Italians surface and Sub raids.

All valid. I just want to remind everyone that the German SUB production has just started up, so it'll be a while before they have more than the 2 that they started with, neither of which is very good at all. That's the biggest reason I haven't used them so far. The Italian SUBs, on the other hand, are a very real threat. I expect to base them out of Lisbon, while the German SUBs will eventually be based out of Brest (kept in supply by HQ-I Antonescu).

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

I would generally concur with Centuur on the following:
(1) Under the circumstances, a Jan/Feb 1941 DoW seems ideal, especially if the USSR is defending in the rear and can't hold the pact.
(2) Whether or not you use the o-chit, building one at this stage may not be worth it (I should add that if the USSR defends in the rear and runs you may not need to use an o-chit vs USSR at all in 1941).

I would quibble that moving army units to Poland & Rumania for the Eastern campaign has to begin sooner than N/D 1940 if you want to start right away in 1941.

May I take this as a vote for attempting to finish off Morocco this J/A '40 turn, so that I can redeploy at a more leisurely pace?

[Klydon]

Just a question from the cheap seats as far as the implications of the temporary dislocation of the CW fleet.

Since the CW fleet is going to have to transit through the Suez now (and most of it I assume will make its way back around Africa), does this mean that the Axis now have a chance to have sea superiority off the coast of Morocco for at least a bit? The reason I ask is you have a chance to destroy most of the active CW ground forces in the game (especially if you include the Suez) outside of the UK and it would take the UK awhile to rebuild all this along with building an airforce and also repairing the navy before they could get serious about picking a spot to pick on the Axis again.

The Euro Axis now also have a lot of coast line to defend against Allied incursions so will have to keep some troops in the west. They can get away with keeping less in the west for awhile if they get rid of the CW troops in Morocco and its not like the CW can easily evacuate them.

I hate the idea of blowing the offensive chit, but if it means you can punch out a lot of CW ground forces at this point, I think you really hurt them fairly badly from taking offensive ground action someplace for awhile not to mention they have to be concerned about a Sea Lion attempt as well.

One last crazy thought. With the fleet at Gibraltar out of position for a bit, any chance of actually pulling a Sea Lion off? It would hurt the US entry badly, but just curious if you have given that any thought given the rammifications with the fleet.

[composer99]

The Axis don't need to reach Mogador (unless the CW puts a unit there). They just need to conquer the capital of Morocco and any empty hex not in a CW or French ZoC will convert to Axis control.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Just a question from the cheap seats as far as the implications of the temporary dislocation of the CW fleet.

Since the CW fleet is going to have to transit through the Suez now (and most of it I assume will make its way back around Africa), does this mean that the Axis now have a chance to have sea superiority off the coast of Morocco for at least a bit? The reason I ask is you have a chance to destroy most of the active CW ground forces in the game (especially if you include the Suez) outside of the UK and it would take the UK awhile to rebuild all this along with building an airforce and also repairing the navy before they could get serious about picking a spot to pick on the Axis again.

The Euro Axis now also have a lot of coast line to defend against Allied incursions so will have to keep some troops in the west. They can get away with keeping less in the west for awhile if they get rid of the CW troops in Morocco and its not like the CW can easily evacuate them.

I hate the idea of blowing the offensive chit, but if it means you can punch out a lot of CW ground forces at this point, I think you really hurt them fairly badly from taking offensive ground action someplace for awhile not to mention they have to be concerned about a Sea Lion attempt as well.

One last crazy thought. With the fleet at Gibraltar out of position for a bit, any chance of actually pulling a Sea Lion off? It would hurt the US entry badly, but just curious if you have given that any thought given the rammifications with the fleet.

Most of the essential CW fleet can get back around Africa during S/O, which is the earliest the Axis could mass its naval forces to attain superiority. The CW will have to abandon Cape St. Vincent as a supply route, and probably the Bay of Biscay, too. At present, there are few CW naval units available, all in Plymouth to defend with, but the Axis has almost all (if not all) of its fleets commited to sea areas at the moment, too.

As for Sea Lion, there is a 7-3 INF stacked with an AMPH in Kiel, plus a TRS there, too. This isn't enough to do the job, and I don't have more TRS or AMPH coming in the near future. I think this stack would best be used during the surprise impulse against the USSR when that war begins early next year. While the Italian TRS are available, and (I think) there are 2 more coming in eventually, I need them in the Med for at least 2 more turns, and maybe more, in order to transfer some German forces into the Middle-East.

If I'm lucky enough to get not only Egypt, but also 4 Italian Corps into Transjordan (thus aligning Iraq) this turn, Kuwait is an easy target for the initial Iraqi CAV, and Syria will fall quickly, defending with 2 TERR units. The increase in Italian production should allow Germany to reduce the amount of trade sent to Italy, meaning that it can afford to save a few BP per turn to get another O-chit.

I think you're right, by the way. The CW was so intent on reinforcing Morocco/Gibraltar that it really didn't take into account the sheer mass of units that Germany was willing to commit to the destruction of Spain, Portugal, and Gibraltar. If the O-chit means taking out Morocco this turn, too, then it is well worth it, I think.

This actually makes me think that the most "brilliant" play of the game so far was the "sneaky" attack that gained Tangier for Italy.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

The Axis don't need to reach Mogador (unless the CW puts a unit there). They just need to conquer the capital of Morocco and any empty hex not in a CW or French ZoC will convert to Axis control.

Very good point. Sometimes I can be a little slow. [>:]

[Red Prince]

Just thought of another reason to take Morocco this turn if at all possible . . . the CBV MIL unit can reinforce there at the start of next turn, adding yet another unit that Germany will have to destroy.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Just thought of another reason to take Morocco this turn if at all possible . . . the CBV MIL unit can reinforce there at the start of next turn, adding yet another unit that Germany will have to destroy.

The German navy is useless against the USSR. You will only be taking Land Actions so the TRS and AMPHs will just sit in port forever.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Just thought of another reason to take Morocco this turn if at all possible . . . the CBV MIL unit can reinforce there at the start of next turn, adding yet another unit that Germany will have to destroy.

The German navy is useless against the USSR. You will only be taking Land Actions so the TRS and AMPHs will just sit in port forever.

Perhaps ture, assuming the situation calls for me to start the war on the first impulse, but if it looks like it could wait an impulse, I could use a Combined action to set the AMPH out to sea in the Baltic. Then, on the next impulsed, when the war begins, it is already set to invade somewhere possibly in the Baltics.

Just thinking of all possibilities. After all, I don't know for certain at this point exactly when I'll be able to start that war, so I can't rule anything out.

[WIF_Killzone]

You better just stick to land actions, look what you did with the CW

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

You better just stick to land actions, look what you did with the CW

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this? Is this in support of my Germany land actions? Or is it an argument against my CW combined actions?

I won't be offended either way, but I don't really know what you mean.

[WIF_Killzone]

Well, because you asked. It was a dig, meaning I dont think you played the CW very well. Please dont take anything I am about to say wrong, just some opinions, and I havnt played WIF in over 10 years so I cant consider my myself an expert by any means. I am also desperately awaiting this game, so I thank you for posting all this, its truly appreciated to keep my interest (and others Im sure) up until its released. OK, now for my critique.

Granted you had a poor CW setup, I can handle that but you had many turns to rectify that situation. Overall I think you have been reacting to the german moves way too much, you havn't been able to cause them any problems, or grab a strategic initiative. How is it possible that the suez and Gibralter could possibly fall during the same game turn. Where are the bombers and fighters, where are the troops, protecting Morroco, what importance is casablanca, zip. It seems that you are playing a turn at a time and not looking 2,3 or six turns down the road for the CW. The game is more than about calculating attack-defence odds although thats important. Its strategic mosty and most importantly. The CW is very powerful, they can move surprisingly fast, but they should not be used to show up at the last moment to get attacked, or piecemeal. You can't fix a situation at the last moment if you know what I mean. West of the Suez could be loaded (well a relative term to be sure) with, something, the canadian armour at least. And how the hell are the Italians kicking their butt everywhere. If you were to truly defend gibralter the straights would never have gone to the italians and you could keep re-inforcing. Do I see four transports in the CW, what pray tell are they doing just sitting there. Where are the south africans and new zealanders and Indians for that matter. LOL, I'm depressed watching. I know your mainly playing for the axis, its a solitaire game after all so your forgiven

Anyways, phew, glad i got that rant out Thanks very much for posting, I'll shut up now.

Well, one last point, do you really want to expend an offensive chit for Germany for Morroco. Not sure thats a good idea. Make sure you take it, but think three or four turns from now, and start deploying the for it. And fix those dam CW dice rolls will ya

[WIF_Killzone]

So, watcha going to do with the CW?

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

Well, because you asked. It was a dig, meaning I dont think you played the CW very well. Please dont take anything I am about to say wrong, just some opinions, and I havnt played WIF in over 10 years so I cant consider my myself an expert by any means. I am also desperately awaiting this game, so I thank you for posting all this, its truly appreciated to keep my interest (and others Im sure) up until its released. OK, now for my critique.

Granted you had a poor CW setup, I can handle that but you had many turns to rectify that situation. Overall I think you have been reacting to the german moves way too much, you havn't been able to cause them any problems, or grab a strategic initiative. How is it possible that the suez and Gibralter could possibly fall during the same game turn. Where are the bombers and fighters, where are the troops, protecting Morroco, what importance is casablanca, zip. It seems that you are playing a turn at a time and not looking 2,3 or six turns down the road for the CW. The game is more than about calculating attack-defence odds although thats important. Its strategic mosty and most importantly. The CW is very powerful, they can move surprisingly fast, but they should not be used to show up at the last moment to get attacked, or piecemeal. You can't fix a situation at the last moment if you know what I mean. West of the Suez could be loaded (well a relative term to be sure) with, something, the canadian armour at least. And how the hell are the Italians kicking their butt everywhere. If you were to truly defend gibralter the straights would never have gone to the italians and you could keep re-inforcing. Do I see four transports in the CW, what pray tell are they doing just sitting there. Where are the south africans and new zealanders and Indians for that matter. LOL, I'm depressed watching. I know your mainly playing for the axis, its a solitaire game after all so your forgiven

Anyways, phew, glad i got that rant out Thanks very much for posting, I'll shut up now.

Well, one last point, do you really want to expend an offensive chit for Germany for Morroco. Not sure thats a good idea. Make sure you take it, but think three or four turns from now, and start deploying the for it. And fix those dam CW dice rolls will ya

I don't take any offense. The fact is that I have not played well as the CW. But please do understand that this is my first full game of WiF of any kind that was intended to run long term. I'm a complete greenhorn. You've got to expect mistakes.

The only thing I disagree with is that I've been "playing for the Axis". I did run the Balkans scenario in the Axis favor, but that is part of a test I am running on the game -- to make sure that all Rumanian units can leave Rumania if they become a full Axis ally. The rest of what may be viewed as "playing for the Axis" is the fact that I am much more comfortable with the land game than the naval game.

As to the question about transports, they haven't been just "sitting there", as you say. Maybe I've used them incorrectly, but I've used them. Inexperience is to blame here. I'm sorry about that, but it's kind of like the business world -- you can't get a job without experience, and you can't get experience without a job.

In reference to the O-chit, I'm leaning toward using it. I took a risk last impulse, thinking I might need the chit to take Gibraltar. Turns out I didn't, but now all of my HQs are disorganized, as are the units in Gibraltar and Tangier. It's still very early in the turn (Impulse #4 is about to begin), and I don't think I can take Morocco without those HQs . . . and I also can't redeploy easily without them. Additionally, they all cost Oil to reorganize. If I flip them all now and if I only need a few to reorganize units, then I save a good deal of Oil which I can put to better use later.

I am thinking 2-3 turns in advance, though I don't always explain it all. Unfortunately, I don't have enough experience with either the CW or the USA to do that successfully yet.

[WIF_Killzone]

Thanks, appreciate you're comments, the CW is a bugger to play well, it'l take a while. Re. offensive chit, dont think the version of the game I used to play allowed reorganizing HQ's (or I never used it), now I see the point of it.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

So, watcha going to do with the CW?

In impulse #4? I'm going to prepare to evacuate the Med, rail the Delhi MIL to Bombay, debark the MIL from the Red Sea into Suez, and pull HQ-A Wavell back a hex or two, keeping the Italians ZOCed, but also maintaining supply to him. Yes, this means a Combined Action, and that means I probably can't reposition troops in Morocco, but given the choice between saving a not yet threatened unit in Morocco and saving 1/3 of the fleet, I think the choice is obvious.

[WIF_Killzone]

For the CW think "leap-frogging", you load inf-armour on transports...and move as far as you can, safely, into the zero box, and then, next impulse, you move into a port, pick up an other transport, and repeat. Going around the horn of africa in this way can move quite fast. Even those slow transports are quite useful, keep your fast ones close to the island and the slow ones around the horn (if you still own it )

I dont mean in this impulse, I mean strategically? What are their medium and long terms strategic plans?

Saving the 1/3 of the fleet, holy crap, yes, that's important Can you hold the suez major port, if so, you probably don't have to worry, just work it backwards how you will get them out of there. Although, yes, the CW is in dire straights.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

For the CW think "leap-frogging", you load inf-armour on transports...and move as far as you can, safely, into the zero box, and then, next impulse, you move into a port, pick up an other transport, and repeat. Going around the horn of africa in this way can move quite fast. Even those slow transports are quite useful, keep your fast ones close to the island and the slow ones around the horn (if you still own it )

I dont mean in this impulse, I mean strategically? What are their medium and long terms strategic plans?

Saving the 1/3 of the fleet, holy crap, yes, that's important Can you hold the suez major port, if so, you probably don't have to worry, just work it backwards how you will get them out of there. Although, yes, the CW is in dire straights.

I do know the "leap-frogging" trick, but lack the tranksports at the moment do do it.

As for medium and long term strategic plans, I have to redesign them. The original intent was to make sure the Med stayed open. At best, Suez can be held until the end of the turn, but not likely any longer than that. So, I can't actually answer the question properly. Short term, though, is to force the Germans and Italians to work for their latest goals.

I don't like throwing good money after bad money, as they say, so I'm unlikely to reinforce Morocco any more and any Middle-East reinforcements will be heading to Aden and Kuwait (if I can get them there before Iraq is aligned). Other than that, it's time to build up the air forces. That will have to be the basis of my long-term strategy when I redesign it.

My building program has included additional transports since about two or three turns ago.

[WIF_Killzone]

OK, before the turn ends can you redeploy your unsused transports to create a good convoy train around Africa?

[Klydon]

No harm, no foul on the CW. I don't have a ton of experience with the game either and most of my experience is from 25 years ago or so, although I have tried to keep up with the expansions, etc.

IMO, I think the CW is one of the hardest positions to play, especially after the fall of France and before the US gets in.