DaBabies Fleet Advance Base Force

[US87891]

Thank you vettim89 and witpqs. Don't expect everyone to get it, but you clearly do. This response is for you and Gunner98.

Yes, the idea is to give players another option. SLs were originally devised by Andrew Brown to model logistic and operational choices differently. SLs add a richness of detail for those players wishing to face the logistic and operational constraints of the Pacific Theater in a more realistic fashion.

AE is a wonderful vehicle. If it were not, we would not have wasted our time on it. All Babes options are just that – options. Everything that is Babes-coded defaults to stock. Babes is a useful tool for many players. If one doesn’t like it, just don’t use it.

FABFs are like traveling PHs. They are for Fleet support, not so much for invasion staging. Add floating drydocks (1-2 ABSDs, 2-3 AFDMs, were the norm) and a HQ and you get the equivalent of a traveling Port 5 with a repair yard. PAFBs fit in places like the Solomons, around the PI, the Marshalls. Add 1-2 AFDMs and you get a Port 3 equivalent for CLs, DDs, subs, PTs, LSTs, just like Tulagi.

Engineering support is pretty straight forward.

USN Base and Spec engineers are Eng types so they can build. They are Shore Party flagged so they give load/unload bonus. They can’t AV and can’t reduce forts. They are found in USN BFs, USN Port Maint, USN Base Maint, and Seabee “Special” Bns. They work best when the combat troops leave. Use them to develop/improve captured/rear area bases and help load/unload in small ports.

USN Constr engineers are the Seabees. They can build. They are not Shore Party flagged. They cannot reduce forts, but can AV and have a good Anti-Soft. They are found in USN Seabee Bns. They work best when fighting is still going on. Land them with the first or second wave and use them to improve bases with enemy troops still in the hex.

USMC Pioneers are Squad type, so cannot build. They are Shore Party flagged so they give load/unload bonus. They can AV and have a good Anti-Soft. They belong to corresponding MarDivs and provide the initial load/unload bonus for troops and supply. They can go into the line as riflemen. Land them with their division in the first wave .

USA Port Service are equivalent to USN Base engineers. They can build, give load/unload bonus. Cannot AV or reduce forts. They are found in Army Port Constr Bns. They work best when the combat troops leave. Use them to develop/improve captured/rear area bases and help load/unload in small ports.

USA Constr engineers can only build. Cannot AV, reduce forts or give load/unload bonus. Are found in USA Construction Bns/Regts. Work best when the combat troops leave. Use to quickly improve a base to a large scale.

USA Amphib Sup are Squad type, so cannot build. They are Shore Party flagged so they give load/unload bonus. They can AV and have a good Anti-Soft. They are found in Army Boat and Shore and AmphTrac Bns and provide the initial load/unload bonus for troops and supply. Land them in the first wave.

The B&S units are the model for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th Engineer (Amphibious) Brigades that ran MacArthur’s amphibious operations in new Guinea.

Hope this helps.

Matt

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: ckammp

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

ckammp-

If you dont like, don't play it.

I can't play it, due to too many changes introduced; changes introduced not in the attempt to improve the game, but simply to pander to the loudest whiners in the forum.

Sounds to me like you have won that award..[8|]

Also - No one is forcing you to play DaBabes either...the recent Betas have actually increased the playability of the GC, and decreased the time required...

[US87891]

Anyone who thinks the Babes people pander to anybody is only apparently thinking clearly because they have their head shoved so for up their butt, it's coming out the other end.

We make options for players willing to go deeper into the operational imperitives of the Theater. If you are the kind of jerk that's offended by anything intellectually challenging, the Babes is not for you anyway. You don't like it? you aren't smart enough to handle it? Then kiss off and don't waste our time. And don't waste the time of players who are smart enough to handle it and wish to discuss it.

This thread started with a question. I hope the question was answered. If it wasn't, I invite the OP to ask again. Any asshole who interjects will be ignored.

Appologies to them that are smart enough and answered best they could. You know who you are, and so do we.

Matt

[ckammp]

ORIGINAL: US87891

Anyone who thinks the Babes people pander to anybody is only apparently thinking clearly because they have their head shoved so for up their butt, it's coming out the other end.

We make options for players willing to go deeper into the operational imperitives of the Theater. If you are the kind of jerk that's offended by anything intellectually challenging, the Babes is not for you anyway. You don't like it? you aren't smart enough to handle it? Then kiss off and don't waste our time. And don't waste the time of players who are smart enough to handle it and wish to discuss it.

This thread started with a question. I hope the question was answered. If it wasn't, I invite the OP to ask again. Any asshole who interjects will be ignored.

Matt

Post reported.

[Gunner98]

Matt, Witpqs,

Thanks for the help - BTW I like the stacking limits and the engineer options - a lot. I appreciate the time you guys took to build this mod and want to get the most out of it. My schedule does not allow for a live opponent, so for now I am stuck with the AI (not complaining) and just want to get a better challenge - the SL and DaBabies helps.

Your comments on the various types will point me in the right direction, I had some of it sorted out but the FABF is such a big beast I want to get it right.


B

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: US87891

Anyone who thinks the Babes people pander to anybody is only apparently thinking clearly because they have their head shoved so for up their butt, it's coming out the other end.

We make options for players willing to go deeper into the operational imperitives of the Theater. If you are the kind of jerk that's offended by anything intellectually challenging, the Babes is not for you anyway. You don't like it? you aren't smart enough to handle it? Then kiss off and don't waste our time. And don't waste the time of players who are smart enough to handle it and wish to discuss it.

This thread started with a question. I hope the question was answered. If it wasn't, I invite the OP to ask again. Any asshole who interjects will be ignored.

Appologies to them that are smart enough and answered best they could. You know who you are, and so do we.

Matt

Wow... must be all DaBabe members..

[JWE]

Okey doke. So I will interject here. And your problem ckammp is? Somebody actually challenged you? And now what; oh go whining to Matrix? They won't help ya none (had to wait for hours to finish laughing and get the wine-snot out of my nose).

What Matt says is a modicum of truth for Babes players.

What you say is a personal piece of psycho babel. You are entitled to your thoughts. As everyony acknowledges. People think your ideas suck, so who the heck are you to go whining to Matrix because your ideas are irrelevant?

Oh, sad, sad, boy; whose notations aren't paid attention to. Wanna report the post? I'll help. I'll send this all to Joe.

Ok, that's over. Screw the jerk, and back to the OP thing.

"We make options for players willing to go deeper into the operational imperitives of the Theater. If you are the kind of jerk that's offended by anything intellectually challenging, the Babes is not for you anyway. You don't like it? you aren't smart enough to handle it? Then kiss off and don't waste our time. And don't waste the time of players who are smart enough to handle it and wish to discuss it."

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ckammp

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

ORIGINAL: ckammp




I can't play it, due to too many changes introduced; changes introduced not in the attempt to improve the game, but simply to pander to the loudest whiners in the forum.

Some examples maybe ?

Any of the recent beta patches; nothing but immediate code changes to appease rader & greyjoy and their followers.
Of course, they were responsible for getting michaelm that brand new computer, wasn't that such a thoughtful gesture.

That is very unfair.

Unfair to micheal, who in your words is a just an instrument...a muppet in our hands.

Unfair to us. We asked for clarifications and lately we also discovered a bug.

[Dan Nichols]

Before this thread get locked, let me say that I love the stacking limits. It is too bad they couldn't have been put in the original AE release, but at least they got put in to the exe so the moders could use them. It certainly makes the game play a bit different and much more interesting and it does take some actual thought, not mindless pushing large stacks about.

[Grfin Zeppelin]

I can only speak for myself but I am indeed A devoted follower and always urge Michaelm to change the game in leisure of my masters.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

I can only speak for myself but I am indeed A devoted follower and always urge Michaelm to change the game in leisure of my masters.

Lol! Yes, good girl! Now go and get that sweet whip of yours[:D]

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Okey doke. So I will interject here. And your problem ckammp is? Somebody actually challenged you? And now what; oh go whining to Matrix? They won't help ya none (had to wait for hours to finish laughing and get the wine-snot out of my nose).

What Matt says is a modicum of truth for Babes players.

What you say is a personal piece of psycho babel. You are entitled to your thoughts. As everyony acknowledges. People think your ideas suck, so who the heck are you to go whining to Matrix because your ideas are irrelevant?

Oh, sad, sad, boy; whose notations aren't paid attention to. Wanna report the post? I'll help. I'll send this all to Joe.

Ok, that's over. Screw the jerk, and back to the OP thing.

"We make options for players willing to go deeper into the operational imperitives of the Theater. If you are the kind of jerk that's offended by anything intellectually challenging, the Babes is not for you anyway. You don't like it? you aren't smart enough to handle it? Then kiss off and don't waste our time. And don't waste the time of players who are smart enough to handle it and wish to discuss it."

He is complaining about something he has a choice to play. He choses not to play but still complains about it... rather odd, I agree...

Your response is over the top... but I wouldn't expect anything less from you..[8|]

[DD696]

I firmly believe that US89871 is simply another reincarnation of Osterhaut who is another reincarnation of JWE. He had almost as many personalities as another who inflames many here.

I personally really like what has been done with the Babes scenarios and play my edited version of it exclusively, but some of the personalities, real and imagined by the primary person now in control of DaBabes (not speaking of Don who was the one who created the Babes and for which I am eternally grateful), but the one in their various array of identities, are quite annoying in their response to questions or criticisms.

The Babes scenarios have taken the game to a much higher level, and I very much appreciate that. For what I disagree with, the editor is a great friend.

[sandman455]

Oh boy, a potentially locked thread. I must jump into it before the hammer falls. [:D]

ORIGINAL: ckammp
There is a big difference between playing out WWII exactly as it happened, and playing AE in a historical manner. The outcome of battles will be different, but the overall outcome should be the same as in real life - a defeat for Japan, and a bad one at that. With the code changes demanded by the whiners, AE is evolvong into an even match where either side could win, all in the name of fun. No thanks.

You are suggesting the could Japanese win? I know all about the imaginary VP differentials sure, but that's not what you are saying since losing in 5 years would obviously be a win for the IJ player when compared to losing in 3. No, you are stating indirectly that someone could actually have Japan achieve the objectives for which they went to war in the first place. Wow, you are definitely way way over my strategic thinking.

ORIGINAL: ckammp
. . . AE is evolvong into an even match where either side could win, all in the name of fun . . .

Then again, I'm a mere mortal who still thought games were meant to be fun. And games where only one side can win? Where do you go to learn how to play these games? You need to be special I bet.

ORIGINAL: ckammp
When AE first came out, it was the best historical simulation of WWII in the Pacific available. Today, thanks to the alt-history, anything-goes mob that controls this forum and the future development of AE, the game is a free-for-all between two equal teams, on called "Japan" and one called "Allies". It bears less resemblance to real history than does the movie "Pearl Harbor", and is even less playable than that movie is watchable.

And then you rock my world with the revelation that all the modifications to the game favor the Japanese. Given all the AAR's showing the IJ players collapsing long before those unrealistic dates provided by history itself, something is clearly wrong with the allies and the IJ side is fine. This is because we now know that Nimitz and his boys were idiots and the Japanese only made a couple of minor errors during the war. Errors that were so small no IJ player could possible side step them. While on the other hand, historians have filled libraries with the foolish and war changing mistakes made by the allies that no player would ever replicate. Accurate historical games should be ending in 43 not 45.

Incredible! It turns out that the historical results of the war are actually ahistorical! And what's worse it's triggering anti-allied code changes in AE. My head would explode if I had to ponder half the things you did to get to that point.

But wait, I saved the best for last.

ORIGINAL: ckammp
To prevent such gamey exploits, DaBabes included stacking limits.
What is sad is that stacking limits are unnecessary, if only players didn't cheat in the first place.
What is sadder is the unwillingness of the devs to call players out on their gamey tactics, but instead change the code to allow such play.

For to actually think there is a game . . . any game . . . where a significant portion of players don't try anything and everything to win at all cost -
Pure genius. This revolutionary assessment of human behavior shall put you in a small - tiny - minuscule - circle of legendary thinkers.

[VMF 214]

If I could add my $.02....I have a strong interest in WWII but a WWII 101 knowledge of it. I am always amazed by the knowledge of the people on here and from reading the AAR's in awe of how everybody plays this game...the strategy, tactics and insight you all have makes me feel this game is way above me. I am in favor of stacking limits not because I think it will prevent players from making mega stacks, which it does but you can only fit so many people in a room so it lets me know how many people I can fit. I don't have the knowledge of how many men and planes can fit on Tulagi or Truk or any other base in real life so the stacking limits is a necessity. Will players try to take advantage, sure. Happens in real life: games, sports, business you look for a edge, any edge and try to take advantage to meet your goals or beat your opponent.

[AcePylut]

"The issue is that no one forces players to create huge mega-stacks of LCUs, they do it anyway.
And then the player moves his mega-stack around, attempting to crush anything in his way. So his opponent creates his own mega-stack, and they fight it out.|"

I love it when opponents make huge mega-stacks - especially in China... cuz then I can use my 1 billion troops to let his stack have whatever hex it wants, while I move all sorts of units around and behind them, cutting off supplies.


I'd love to see my opponent march 7 divisions from Buna to PM... cuz that's 7 divisions I don't have to worry about elsewhere, for a place I probably won't fight much!


I love stacking limits, after all, stacking limits have been in AE since it first came out!

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

"The issue is that no one forces players to create huge mega-stacks of LCUs, they do it anyway.
And then the player moves his mega-stack around, attempting to crush anything in his way. So his opponent creates his own mega-stack, and they fight it out.|"

I love it when opponents make huge mega-stacks - especially in China... cuz then I can use my 1 billion troops to let his stack have whatever hex it wants, while I move all sorts of units around and behind them, cutting off supplies.


I'd love to see my opponent march 7 divisions from Buna to PM... cuz that's 7 divisions I don't have to worry about elsewhere, for a place I probably won't fight much!


I love stacking limits, after all, stacking limits have been in AE since it first came out!

+1. The ' I'll have the biggest stack' strategy is doomed to failure, and the reason has been succinctly put by AcePylut[8|]

[Buck Beach]

An AI player never gets accused of cheating by his opponent (albeit in my case, would be in its right to do so)[:D][:D]

[US87891]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
An AI player never gets accused of cheating by his opponent (albeit in my case, would be in its right to do so)[:D][:D]

Very true. But not quite the point of Stacking Limits. They have the nice effect of penalizing mega-stacks, but hey are more for the player who wishes to experience the logistical and operational constraints of the Theater in a more thoughtful and structured manner. They are clearly not for everyone.

btw, No I'm not JWE or MO. John has more hair (he's somewhat younger) and he's taller and a lot thinner. He races sailboats and I get seasick on cruise ships. Nor am I Mike Osterhaut. Mike owns a business, makes gobs of money, and is part of the 1%. Wish I had a 10th of what he makes in a year in my 401K. But, alas. Although I do have some stock and it performs and Mike listens to me.

Matt

Just for fun and for those who been there, remember this these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxNEiZhpinY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqVVnExlX9c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bMjUU97 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn4ijUey ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1FK620bS7A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyEs0Cs3tTc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp-1JTFh ... re=related
All must be played really loud.

[oldman45]

Some of them bring back memories, some I have to admit I never heard of. Thanks for the links.