It doesn't seem like the carriers in UV are carrying as many planes as the carriers in the real war. I haven't tried disbanding any, is there a way to stand down your wildcats and have some fresh planes brought up to the deck?
The real carriers had more fighters didn't they?
Carrier Capacity
Moderators: Joel Billings, Tankerace, siRkid
The number of aircraft and the ratio of fighters to bombers( dive and torp) varied thoughout the war. Generaly the total number went up and the number of fighters went up. The USN went to deck storage and could put over 100 aircraft on an aircraft carrier rated for 90. They were able to do this because their aircraft were more resistant to adverse weather than the Japanesse and production was so high. Also, overcrowding is corrrected with losses( war and operational). The load out you see in UV is typical for 1942 and 1943. By 1944, production had increased to flood proportions and the load outs looked like 54 FTR, 24 DB, 18 TB and many CVs carried a few more fighters than their authorized load out.
They will but it takes a long time. You have F4F-3 fighters and there are no replacements for those. They will upgrade to F4F-4s but the replacement rate is 60( or 2 per day). You have to have 48 in in the pool, so it takes 24+ days before one CV will upgrade to F4F-4s. Bottom line is, be very careful with the fighter groups you start with on your CVs, lose them and you can lose the CVs.
The USN CVs start the game with their historical aircraft loads for May 1st 1942. You will notice that all of the fighter squadrons have 21 out of a max of 36 fighters. One of the "findings" of the Coral Sea (I've actually posted the AAR on these forums), was "WE NEED MORE FIGHTERS!".
Especially in a PBEM game, keep your USN CVs close to land-based CAP, and be loathe to commit them to confrontation with IJN CVs in May. Give you CVs a month to build up their fighter squadrons before getting into a scrap. It takes about a month tho. What whill happen is, you'll have one carrier that will change-up to the F4F4s (sooo much better than the F4F3s), and then it's F4F3s will go into the pool, and can be drawn by your other CVs to top them off to 36.
Also, you can put up to 10% more aircraft on a CV without affecting it's flight operations. It's not something I've felt compelled to bother with, but you could put additional squadron(s) of 9 planes on your ship, and still retain full capabilities. There aren't any fighter squadrons that are only 9 planes tho (that I know of), and you don't want to put a squadon on your ship that's going to grow to more than 9, because that'll shut down your flight deck and then you're just a really big CVE.
I think the 10% extra is more intended as a "reserve" in case another CV in the area gets pasted. It allows your surving CV to host some of the survivors.
-F-
Especially in a PBEM game, keep your USN CVs close to land-based CAP, and be loathe to commit them to confrontation with IJN CVs in May. Give you CVs a month to build up their fighter squadrons before getting into a scrap. It takes about a month tho. What whill happen is, you'll have one carrier that will change-up to the F4F4s (sooo much better than the F4F3s), and then it's F4F3s will go into the pool, and can be drawn by your other CVs to top them off to 36.
Also, you can put up to 10% more aircraft on a CV without affecting it's flight operations. It's not something I've felt compelled to bother with, but you could put additional squadron(s) of 9 planes on your ship, and still retain full capabilities. There aren't any fighter squadrons that are only 9 planes tho (that I know of), and you don't want to put a squadon on your ship that's going to grow to more than 9, because that'll shut down your flight deck and then you're just a really big CVE.
I think the 10% extra is more intended as a "reserve" in case another CV in the area gets pasted. It allows your surving CV to host some of the survivors.
-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me
Well, hopefully your opponenst isn't reading these boards Drex... :^)
How badly are your carriers mauled? Bad enough that you're sending them back to Pearl? Or just parking them in Brisbane or Noumea?
What are the IJN objectives? Is he going for PM? Or Luganville?
Depending on alot of things, and what the date is, you might very well be able to just sit for a month.
Depending on the objectives of your opponent (and his condition), he may very well just take the month to reinforce his positions knowing that your CV(s) are docked. It is YOUR responsibility to attack at USN, so reinforcing during a "lull" is always good for IJN.
Deception is good. Be fluid. Move stuff around. Those scouting reports can be very ambiguious and downright wrong. If your opponent thinks you've got fleet in the area, and so thus is hesitant to move, it's the same as if you actually DO have the carrier active. Try not to telegraph you next action (or inaction for that matter).
But can you "hide" behind of a screen of your LBA for a while? Sure. It'll be easier tho if you can run a minor op somewhere that will "distract" some of his forces. If he sees that he has the ball, he's going to run with it.
-F-
How badly are your carriers mauled? Bad enough that you're sending them back to Pearl? Or just parking them in Brisbane or Noumea?
What are the IJN objectives? Is he going for PM? Or Luganville?
Depending on alot of things, and what the date is, you might very well be able to just sit for a month.
Depending on the objectives of your opponent (and his condition), he may very well just take the month to reinforce his positions knowing that your CV(s) are docked. It is YOUR responsibility to attack at USN, so reinforcing during a "lull" is always good for IJN.
Deception is good. Be fluid. Move stuff around. Those scouting reports can be very ambiguious and downright wrong. If your opponent thinks you've got fleet in the area, and so thus is hesitant to move, it's the same as if you actually DO have the carrier active. Try not to telegraph you next action (or inaction for that matter).
But can you "hide" behind of a screen of your LBA for a while? Sure. It'll be easier tho if you can run a minor op somewhere that will "distract" some of his forces. If he sees that he has the ball, he's going to run with it.
-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me
I too wonder about all these folks posting stay at home for the first month or so while Japan runs rampant over the entire Pacific.
Every game I've played, Japan has always ended up getting additional CV's a few turns before the Allies get their replacements, which still puts you in a disadvantage situation.
Allied CVs: 2 CV @ start, 2 CV @ 20 day, 1 CV @ 45 day, 1 CV @ 60 day (+19 days from Pearl)
Japan CV's: 2 CV @ start, 1 CVL @ start, 5 CV @ 30 day, 2 CVL @ 30 day (+11 days from Japan)
If on the other hand, the Allies deal with those starting CVs without loosing any of their own, once they get their additional CVs, they are now unstoppable.
Total planes within 2 months (ballpark)
Allied: 141 fighters, 216 dive, 75 torpedo
Japan: 176 fighters, 121 dive, 171 torpedo
Since the 75 Allied torpedo bombers are nothing but target practice, this means you are looking at 216 vs 292 assuming the fighters counter each other. While some might say that the 75 Allied torpedo planes even that out, only a very silly player is going to let you get into range for the very first strike.
While waiting for your F4F-4s to replace your F4F-3's, you are allowing those numbers to stack up against you, not to mention the extra squadrons of A6M2's that are showing up for the Japan player to stuff on his underloaded CVs.
Bomb vs Torpedo ... hmm, which would you rather eat? I suppose you can sit back and wait until all those torpedo bombers are upgraded to TBF's that have range, but ...
I don't know, but against the AI, agressive play is the way to go. Against a scheming human, it might be different, but the only thing Japan seems to be short of is bulldozers
Every game I've played, Japan has always ended up getting additional CV's a few turns before the Allies get their replacements, which still puts you in a disadvantage situation.
Allied CVs: 2 CV @ start, 2 CV @ 20 day, 1 CV @ 45 day, 1 CV @ 60 day (+19 days from Pearl)
Japan CV's: 2 CV @ start, 1 CVL @ start, 5 CV @ 30 day, 2 CVL @ 30 day (+11 days from Japan)
If on the other hand, the Allies deal with those starting CVs without loosing any of their own, once they get their additional CVs, they are now unstoppable.
Total planes within 2 months (ballpark)
Allied: 141 fighters, 216 dive, 75 torpedo
Japan: 176 fighters, 121 dive, 171 torpedo
Since the 75 Allied torpedo bombers are nothing but target practice, this means you are looking at 216 vs 292 assuming the fighters counter each other. While some might say that the 75 Allied torpedo planes even that out, only a very silly player is going to let you get into range for the very first strike.
While waiting for your F4F-4s to replace your F4F-3's, you are allowing those numbers to stack up against you, not to mention the extra squadrons of A6M2's that are showing up for the Japan player to stuff on his underloaded CVs.
Bomb vs Torpedo ... hmm, which would you rather eat? I suppose you can sit back and wait until all those torpedo bombers are upgraded to TBF's that have range, but ...
I don't know, but against the AI, agressive play is the way to go. Against a scheming human, it might be different, but the only thing Japan seems to be short of is bulldozers
Most tactical advice I read on these forums has been advocating conservation of the US carrier force as it is inferior as to attack range and plane/pilot quality but here I read that if you sit back you are allowing the enemy to grow just as strong or stronger. the problem with the allies is they have no troops to invade except on a small scale and no planes to keep the Japanese away. If I take my carrier TF on patrol then bring it back to Noumea will I still get the newer upgrades or do I have to send the carriers back to Pearl to get these? Once you take your carrier force out its difficult to evade recon and then difficult to avoid a carrier battle with the longer ranged Japanese.
Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"
Its always a gamble, but Feinder in the PBEM game we are running right now managed a pretty decisive defeat against my IJN carriers early on. I would have settled for an even exchange but luck (or radar or whatever) didn't fall my way and so he is in a decent position CV wise.
Now if only he had some battleships to sink...
Now if only he had some battleships to sink...
x-Nuc twidget
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"
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Admiral DadMan
- Posts: 3407
- Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:00 am
- Location: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Ah yes, the roll of the dice. I'm going to get hurt whether I sit in Noumea or take the carriers out but at least in the latter instance I stand a chance of hurting him big time. the idea is to finesse the carrier battle to do equal or greater damage. this sounds more realistic to me. So be it. Soulblazer is probably reading this right now.
Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"
Bah, I only knocked out a couple of Knavey's teeth last month. Zuikaku and Soryu sunk, Shoho and Shok got mauled, but I think my last recon report said Shok was back at Rabaul (or she never left). Come to think on it, Shok is probably fine. She took a torp hit, and those repair fairly easily.
He's not as bad off as he leads on. I know he's got 4 BBs, and from his latest strikes, he's probably also got Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu plus either Junyo or some more "toy" carriers. I on the other hand have [number editted by ComPacFlt] CVs and ZERO, NADA, NIL, ZILCH Battleships (stupid effing Kinkaid won't send me any from Pearl).
Granted he didn't do that much to me in that battle. I credit Radar, luck and having WAITED until I had at least a squadron of F4F4s (I actually think I had 2 of 3 carriers with the F4F4s). York had F4F3s, and they suffered about 50% more casualties than my F4F4 squadrons, and York got a trio of sky-lights for her hanger deck to show for it.
But rememebr that all those assests are POTENTIALLY available to IJN, but that doesn't mean your opponent is actually going to have all that krap in theater. It means it's available and can be drawn, but it's EXTREMELY unlikely that your opponent will actually be cruising aroudn the coral sea with 10 carriers (of varying sizes).
-F-
He's not as bad off as he leads on. I know he's got 4 BBs, and from his latest strikes, he's probably also got Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu plus either Junyo or some more "toy" carriers. I on the other hand have [number editted by ComPacFlt] CVs and ZERO, NADA, NIL, ZILCH Battleships (stupid effing Kinkaid won't send me any from Pearl).
Granted he didn't do that much to me in that battle. I credit Radar, luck and having WAITED until I had at least a squadron of F4F4s (I actually think I had 2 of 3 carriers with the F4F4s). York had F4F3s, and they suffered about 50% more casualties than my F4F4 squadrons, and York got a trio of sky-lights for her hanger deck to show for it.
But rememebr that all those assests are POTENTIALLY available to IJN, but that doesn't mean your opponent is actually going to have all that krap in theater. It means it's available and can be drawn, but it's EXTREMELY unlikely that your opponent will actually be cruising aroudn the coral sea with 10 carriers (of varying sizes).
-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me
The thing that seems to be forgotten for the USN player is that there is a "0" production value for the F4F-3
Not forgotten at all. Thats one of the reasons that the Allies really need to put a dent in Japan quickly, as if they do not, they basically need to sit back for 90+ days, waiting for CV's to fill up with aircraft.
If you do not strike decisively early, you really give Japan 90 days to entrench well before you can do anything. At the scenario 19 aircraft rates, 90 days is a sky full of zeros!
Hm.
Well, Knavey and I are playing Scen19, and yes his IJN pilots are fairing alot better than they did in 17.
Our first "real" engagement took place in the first week of June. The whole thing was actually a mistake (I had no intention of gunning for him). I was escorting an important convoy, and hoping to catch some of Knavey's BBs that had been pounding PM. In the meantime, he had sent his carriers around to intercept the convoy, but didn't know it was escorted by 3 carriers.
I had York, Lex and Hornet vs. Shokaku, Zuikaku, Soryu and Shoho. Lex had already fitted with F4F4s, and maybe I had a second squadron of them because maybe Hornet came in theater with F4F4s (again, not positive). But York had the F4F3s, and they are markedly inferior (they've got 2 less 50cals).
Shok took a torp from a sub on the first day, and retired early. The airstrikes that followed the next day were very lopsided. Litterally, I downed 80% of his bombers by my CAP, -before- they even made their attack runs (my only guess again is radar, luck, and the newer F4F4s). My strikes on the other hand were largely intact by the time they made their runs.
Shok was out from torps in day 1. Zuikaku sank the next day. Shoho and Soryu were returing mauled, but a sub caught Soryu and finished her off with 2 torps. Also Knavey's squadrons got pretty mauled.
For me, York took 3 hits and Portland took 1. All in all, I ended up in pretty good shape.
-F-
Well, Knavey and I are playing Scen19, and yes his IJN pilots are fairing alot better than they did in 17.
Our first "real" engagement took place in the first week of June. The whole thing was actually a mistake (I had no intention of gunning for him). I was escorting an important convoy, and hoping to catch some of Knavey's BBs that had been pounding PM. In the meantime, he had sent his carriers around to intercept the convoy, but didn't know it was escorted by 3 carriers.
I had York, Lex and Hornet vs. Shokaku, Zuikaku, Soryu and Shoho. Lex had already fitted with F4F4s, and maybe I had a second squadron of them because maybe Hornet came in theater with F4F4s (again, not positive). But York had the F4F3s, and they are markedly inferior (they've got 2 less 50cals).
Shok took a torp from a sub on the first day, and retired early. The airstrikes that followed the next day were very lopsided. Litterally, I downed 80% of his bombers by my CAP, -before- they even made their attack runs (my only guess again is radar, luck, and the newer F4F4s). My strikes on the other hand were largely intact by the time they made their runs.
Shok was out from torps in day 1. Zuikaku sank the next day. Shoho and Soryu were returing mauled, but a sub caught Soryu and finished her off with 2 torps. Also Knavey's squadrons got pretty mauled.
For me, York took 3 hits and Portland took 1. All in all, I ended up in pretty good shape.
-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me
Yes, it's actually the Nav Search planes that are spotting his ships. I didn't really think about the term being used as the mission. Sorry for the confusion.
I do run recons occasionally tho, and you are correct that recons don't give the ships in port (which is a little odd if you ask me).
-F-
I do run recons occasionally tho, and you are correct that recons don't give the ships in port (which is a little odd if you ask me).
-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me
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Grumbling Grogn
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 8:31 am
- Location: Texas!
- Contact:
Cowardice or just adversion to luck?
Speaking just for myself, I don’t like to send US CVs up against the Japanese CVs until I feel confident in my airmen to not get slaughtered by the Japanese naval air units. It is that simple for me.
Sure you can get lucky early, or not. And if you lose both your CVs to the IJN early as the US you are in for a load of hurt. You may squeak out a win later, with luck (where was it last time!). :rolleyes:
I like to call this my aversion to chance. But, you could just as well say I am a coward for not facing the Japanese.
I would rather not face the IJN on anything coming close to even odds when they are at their strongest in relation to the USN forces in the region. Time is on the side of the Allies. We can all agree on this, I think.
Just my two cents.
Sure you can get lucky early, or not. And if you lose both your CVs to the IJN early as the US you are in for a load of hurt. You may squeak out a win later, with luck (where was it last time!). :rolleyes:
I like to call this my aversion to chance. But, you could just as well say I am a coward for not facing the Japanese.
I would rather not face the IJN on anything coming close to even odds when they are at their strongest in relation to the USN forces in the region. Time is on the side of the Allies. We can all agree on this, I think.
Just my two cents.
The Grumbling Grognard