MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

While I don't think an amphibious invasion into the Baltics will make a positive contribution to the German offensive, I also don't think it will hurt it. So by all means undertake it and we'll see what happens.

It's an annoyance-factor thing, that's all. Take away Estonia, and then start putting the ZOC on Leningrad. The Soviets will have to rail the Odessa factory out on the first impulse after the DOW and then the Leningrad factory on the next. It makes the Soviets do things the way Germany wants them done.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: composer99




If the Germans attack the city in the same turn that the FTR flew (whether on the same or a subsequent impulse) then your objection does not come into play.

With the exception of late-turn ground strikes, if the Germans are willing to wait until the next turn to attack a city just to get the pleasure of seeing FTR not re-flip, that's a USSR win in my books as those units could be pushing forward somewhere else.

I think we must disagree on what constitutes a "hero city" then. The definition I know is one that gets bypassed because the Germans are afraid of flipping the number of units it will take to atttack it at good odds. And once bypassed, the FTR flies once if there's no oil stored in the city.

A good use for those types of FTRs is to protect the CP in the Black Sea (or the Caspian) where they can hold their own against axis NAV.

The unstated point of a lot of posts about the weak USSR fighters is that they should never be in the air where a German fighter can get to them. Definitely against a German TAC with poor A2A strength. But otherwise they cover things in the rear (against paradrops, the Caspian Sea, the Baku front, ...).

The Persian front isn't likely to face attack the first turn of war, so I moved 2 more of the weak FTR into cities. Those, plus the Leningrad FTR will come off the map in the next reinforcement step. If I haven't managed to build better fighters in the next turn or two, I can always put these back on the map at Baku . . . and it's actually probably more efficient than trying to rebase them.

[paulderynck]

You will have to fight for Talinin, it will be worth 1 even with surprise.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

You will have to fight for Talinin, it will be worth 1 even with surprise.

Yup, you're right. Forgot that. So I'll take the hex next to it instead. Or anywhere that will let me cause trouble for the Soviets. [:)]

[composer99]

If you're going to land, land in the forest hex east of Talinin. Prevents reinforcing of the city by rail and by land (from Riga - except in snow when the swamp is forest).

[Red Prince]

If the Axis forces could conceivably defeat 2- or 3-unit stacks in Cernauti and Chisinau on the surprise impulse, then both cities should have single cheap units to defend them.

The forces there at present don't quite look up to that task (1 HQ and 4-5 corps), so if it stays that way, I suggest the USSR doing the following:
- 1 cheap unit in Cernauti
- strong force in Chisinau
- 1 cheap, 4-factor unit in the hex southwest of Chisinau - unless my maths are off this unit cannot be overrun even during the surprise impulse so it will keep Chisinau from being encircled
- the force in Chisinau, unless it is all disorganized, can withdraw except for another cheap speedbump

Re-examining things, I finally see what Steve is getting at here.

On the right side, you see what I have for units already and where they are placed. On the left (if I understand the point the 2 of you were trying to make) is what I should try to get in place instead.

Somewhere, several pages ago, someone said I should try to screen Odessa with a few strong stacks in front of Chisinau. But the point is to make Chisinau tough to crack, and only have enough factors in the other two hexes to prevent an overrun that might put Odessa at risk.

There will be a problem with Odessa. I have a 6-4 INF coming in at the start of the turn that I can place there, but a 2nd unit will have to be one of the reserves unless I'm absolutely certain I can withdraw one of these other units into the city. The other problem I have here is that I'll need at least 2 impulses to get this done and start putting the Persian force in place, too.

[Orm]

I do not understand why so many units are commited to the Romanian front just to rail one factory out of Odessa. One cheap unit in Cernauti and one cheap unit in Chisinau and 2 decent units (10+ in defence) in Odessa should be enough to keep the rail line open to rail out the factory. In order to stop this Germany must attack Odessa from one hex on the suprise impulse and capture the city.

It is a gamble because Germany can attack and capture the city but as USSR I like the thought of Germany making assaults on the suprise impulse. And to get decent odds Germany must commit air power. to the attack.

[brian brian]

stopped in to correct the logistics in Persia ... only three HQs going overland, using Baghdad, will get you to both hexes of the Turkish border, not 4, though without being able to use HQ support on that 2nd hex. your Staff is plenty big and competent, and what Orm just said.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: paulderynck



I think we must disagree on what constitutes a "hero city" then. The definition I know is one that gets bypassed because the Germans are afraid of flipping the number of units it will take to atttack it at good odds. And once bypassed, the FTR flies once if there's no oil stored in the city.

A good use for those types of FTRs is to protect the CP in the Black Sea (or the Caspian) where they can hold their own against axis NAV.

The unstated point of a lot of posts about the weak USSR fighters is that they should never be in the air where a German fighter can get to them. Definitely against a German TAC with poor A2A strength. But otherwise they cover things in the rear (against paradrops, the Caspian Sea, the Baku front, ...).

The Persian front isn't likely to face attack the first turn of war, so I moved 2 more of the weak FTR into cities. Those, plus the Leningrad FTR will come off the map in the next reinforcement step. If I haven't managed to build better fighters in the next turn or two, I can always put these back on the map at Baku . . . and it's actually probably more efficient than trying to rebase them.

I really like the idea of taking the fighters off the map and then bringing them back in a different city the next turn.[&o][:)]

[morgil]

You should make an estimate on how fast the Axis units can be in position in Persia. Subtract two impulses, and thats your timeframe to be ready there.
I dunno how far they have come, but it looks like it might take a while for them to get in position.
The main reason you want the best HQ somewhere more central. like the forest east of Kharkov, is that you can use it to flip up the 5 best reserves, and put them to use imediately.
If there are italian bombrs on the scene, you might even consider putting it in Voronezh.
Get all divs out of the way, they just make the attack easier.

But its looking better, and your getting the idea so thats good [:)]

Now, there is one more thing to consider..should you move a unit down to Busher and burn up the oil fields there ?
Actually, should you had dowed Iraq just as the Italians was looking to align it, and done the same there ?
I think I would have.

PS
Can I buy the game as is ?
$100 is fair price yes ?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Orm

I do not understand why so many units are commited to the Romanian front just to rail one factory out of Odessa. One cheap unit in Cernauti and one cheap unit in Chisinau and 2 decent units (10+ in defence) in Odessa should be enough to keep the rail line open to rail out the factory. In order to stop this Germany must attack Odessa from one hex on the suprise impulse and capture the city.

It is a gamble because Germany can attack and capture the city but as USSR I like the thought of Germany making assaults on the suprise impulse. And to get decent odds Germany must commit air power. to the attack.

I agree. All the units placed to defend Odessa will be destroyed or bypassed in the first 2 impulses of the German attack (i.e., before the USSR gets its second impulse). Those 3 movers aren't going anywhere fast. And there are a lot of clear hexes between Bessarabia and the Dnieper.

Something with a ZOC in Cernauti and Chisinau. 2 units in Odessa (1 is a reserve).

You could clean out this entire front and position these units along the Dnieper, using 3 reserve units to populate the 3 cities.

All these clear hexes you see here are death traps. Supply is hard to come by and the German bombers can hammer them (not the Stukas, but the long range bombers). The black print units become disorganized, the Germans ooze through the cracks in the line and the armor overruns them. This is one of the primary threats of the German armor stacks.

Remember that you will not be able to rail out a factory until the Germans have entered Russian proper. If they just move up to the Polish border, none of the Russian factories can rail move.

[composer99]

Bessarabia is part of the USSR home country (until no hexes remain under USSR control). If the Germans enter it, it's factory railing time.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: morgil

You should make an estimate on how fast the Axis units can be in position in Persia. Subtract two impulses, and thats your timeframe to be ready there.
I dunno how far they have come, but it looks like it might take a while for them to get in position.
The main reason you want the best HQ somewhere more central. like the forest east of Kharkov, is that you can use it to flip up the 5 best reserves, and put them to use imediately.
If there are italian bombrs on the scene, you might even consider putting it in Voronezh.
Get all divs out of the way, they just make the attack easier.

But its looking better, and your getting the idea so thats good [:)]

Now, there is one more thing to consider..should you move a unit down to Busher and burn up the oil fields there ?
Actually, should you had dowed Iraq just as the Italians was looking to align it, and done the same there ?
I think I would have.

PS
Can I buy the game as is ?
$100 is fair price yes ?

I am doing my da**est to get this released ASAP. Pricing is up to Matrix/Slitherine.

If the game has too many bugs when released (I would argue that 1 is too many), no one is going to be happy - least of all me. But many people are working on getting it running smoothly and identifying/fixing any strange noises coming out of the engine.[X(] We are not wasting time buffing and polishing chrome.[:-] [That wagging finger belongs to my wife.][:D]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Bessarabia is part of the USSR home country (until no hexes remain under USSR control). If the Germans enter it, it's factory railing time.

Good point!

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: composer99

Bessarabia is part of the USSR home country (until no hexes remain under USSR control). If the Germans enter it, it's factory railing time.

Good point!

This is why I said earlier that I hesitate to start Barbarossa in M/A '41, because with my revised defense of Bessarabia, it's going to be difficult to take both cities and also claim every hex in Bessarabia during a short, unpredictable-weather turn. If I can't do enough damage to the Soviets before they get to Production, they'll have something just short of 30 BP to spend instead of 17.

It's been suggested that if I can kill the difference in the first turn, than it's a victory for Germany for that turn, but I still think Germany should aim to kill off as much as they can on the 1st turn of war, attempt to get Russia to rail 3+ factories, and interfere with resources. I'd also like to be able to co-ordinate the attack with a Japanese DOW, so that the 4 Siberian Resources can either be taken away or blocked from transport, making the doubled-multiplier less useful.

[Red Prince]

Germany managed a Ground Strike on 1 of the 2 units in the Sinai, and HQ-A Graziani added HQ Support an a "lucky" roll of '1' to take advantage of the Fine weather in this part of the world:



And the results:

Attack on Egypt [83, 61]: Blitz, Fractional Odds .448 (Yes), Roll = 4+1 = 5 = -/1R (MIL destroyed, INF destroyed with no place to Retreat, attackers disorganized)

With the ability to reposition 2 units into the desert mountain hex east of the enemy, this Blitz attack certainly wasn't a sure thing, but with Ground Support available to counter the CW Shore Bombardment, and a good HQ Support roll, Italy can expect a Retreat or better result 70% of the time. With a good Fractional Odds roll, that improves to 80% chances of a Retreat or better. The key here is the units in the deser mountains. The ZOC they creat means an R result is as good as a kill.

Turns out the roll was 1 short of keeping these units organized. That's going to cost a little extra Oil, but it got the job done. It may not be a terrific trade-off for the high probability of increasing the Allies +1 on the Initiative Track, but winning this battle frees up both Italian HQs to help the Germans set up the supply chain they'll need in Iraq. That makes this a useful impulse in my opinion.

[Red Prince]

Someone asked earlier about how long it would take to set up the land supply route to attack into Persia. Well, it looks like it can be done in 4 impulses, so that gives the Soviets some time to prepare defenses.
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Edit: And they are going to have to be M/A '41 impulses, because the turn just ended on another '1' roll. Here's what the weather looked like during this brutal turn. The Allies will be up to +2 on the Initiative track, too.

I'm going to try to get some more sleep before completing the End of Turn sequence, but you can expect a report in another 6-8 hours or so.

[Red Prince]

Okay, I lied: 2 more posts. First, the units destroyed in J/F '41 (Turn #9):

[Red Prince]

And the 2nd post . . . this is why I wanted to get it up before I go back to sleep, because I think it will generate a lot of talk. Pass War Appropriations at the end of J/F '41 ???

All I can say is that Japan better damn well be ready to make some DOWs soon, or this "Axis Fantasy" is going to rapidly become an "Axis Nightmare".

As for something to debate, personally I think this makes it much more important to wait until M/J '41 to begin the offensive on all fronts. The USA might have a shot at a low-odds DOW in M/A '41, but there's not much they get out of it other than 10 extra BP and the ability to avoid Surprise by Japan. If I can manage to conquer China (or maybe it should surender now?) in M/A '41, get lucky and win the 1st impulse in M/J '41, DOW everybody in sight . . . well, maybe I can keep US Entry high and Tension relatively low for a few more turns.

Of course, on the other hand, Germany needs to take out the Soviets ASAP. This certianly changes things.

[Red Prince]

Chose the option, moved a chit (a '1' from the Ge/It Entry to Tension Pools), and here's what you get:
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Edit: Now I'm having questions. A Chinese surrender might actually improve the odds for a USA DOW on Japan (if it gets the 1st impulse) to 50%, definitely a risk worth taking. But, with only 3 chits in the Ja Tension Pool, unless it's the '1' that is removed (assuming a failed DOW), it will be some time before another DOW can be attempted on Japan. Without a Chinese surrender, I don't know that I'd try a DOW at 40% odds.

And, again, with the Surrender, there's a lot of units that Japan will lose until at war again, and then they'll be potentially out of position. What to do, what to do . . .

If I'm counting it correctly, 14 Japanese units will be instantly removed from the map (Reserves and MIL units). Of these, roughly 9 can re-appear for free, but the reset have to be purchased again. If China doesn't surrender to Japan, this may be enough motivation to get Japan to DOW earlier than it would like, just to keep its units on the map.