I wouldn't go that far. I like the idea of playing Scenario Two against most experienced players. It offers a very tight match. It isn't World War II, but it is kind of like playing chess, though you do know the black (Allies) will eventually prevail.
As for my Star Wars comment, I stand behind it. I don't see any experienced IJ player ever running out of aircraft or pilots (unless there is a patch that changes the equation).
The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
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Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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Grfin Zeppelin
- Posts: 1514
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:22 pm
- Location: Germany
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
Actualy its very easy if playing Japan to run out of certain AC frames or certain pilot types scen 1 or 2. Soso Japanese players will do that themself and experienced ones need help from the allies to make that happen.
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I have referred to the massive quantities of Japanese aircraft and pilots in AE (presumably restricted to Scenario Two, but it may be more widespread than that) as "Star Wars."
Until GJ's game, there were various opinions tossed out that the Star Wars effect was limited by the particular circumstances of each game. But this game proves that Star Wars is the norm. If GJ hasn't reduced Japan's capcity to turn out zillions of aiircraft and pilots, then it's not ever going to happen. GJ has just flat whiped Japan for two years of game time, inflicting staggering losses, but Japan still comes back with vast quantities every turn.
So, Star Wars it is. All who play Scenario Two need to start with this information in mind. I will always prefer Scenario Two, but I won't play with the idea that I can limit Japan's quantities. The best I can hope for is to maximize Allied pilot quality so that my air forces can hold their own in the sky.
and what this tells me is that no AFB in his right mind (who isn't a masochist) should EVER agree to play the JFB wetdream scenario that #2 represents.....at least NOT without a compensating factor, the only one of which the game offers is not using historical torpedo duds for the US, nor should he ever agree to any limitations on the use of 4Es
Disagree... I bitch about scen#2 all the time but think it is a fair and balanced game with all its flaws. In fact, if the Allies avoid autovictory in 42, then given equal skill levels, they should win. If you want a historical simulation then #1 is the way to go. If you want a good hard game, then #2 fills the bill. I would like to see a few modifications but think I would be bored playing the Allies in #1.
But I am not fooling myself. It is a total JFB wet dream...[;)]
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
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Chickenboy
- Posts: 24606
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
I won't disagree about anything said here re: unrealistic Japanese production or the rationale therein. In my opinion, one of the greatest benefits of scenario 2 v. 1 is the automatic 'pull forward' of the IJ production lines, REGARDLESS of research expenditures. This will shave several months off any airframe availability. Thus, Allied players are guaranteeing that they will lose air parity early and often just because of the defacto early research. When combined with increased resource, HI pools and infantry, CRSutton is right-it is a JFB wet dream.
@GreyJoy: while stopping Oil in the long run is a sage idea, I disagree about using it as the short-term focus of your bombing effort. In my opinion, it's all about the aircraft / engine production facilities. As it's likely that he has at least some engines stockpiled, I'd say that a/c production should come first. Only by taking his up-and-coming uber-fighters permanently offline (before production starts in earnest) can you really take his fight away from him.
If you don't do this soon, you'll be in the awkward position of having drained your replacement pools of fighters in 1944, while his fighter production pools expand at unfathomable levels into 1945. I wouldn't envy your strategic position in that case.
@GreyJoy: while stopping Oil in the long run is a sage idea, I disagree about using it as the short-term focus of your bombing effort. In my opinion, it's all about the aircraft / engine production facilities. As it's likely that he has at least some engines stockpiled, I'd say that a/c production should come first. Only by taking his up-and-coming uber-fighters permanently offline (before production starts in earnest) can you really take his fight away from him.
If you don't do this soon, you'll be in the awkward position of having drained your replacement pools of fighters in 1944, while his fighter production pools expand at unfathomable levels into 1945. I wouldn't envy your strategic position in that case.
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
Ladies and gentlemen - we can not compare Scenario 2 to "real history". Scenario two is not supposed to be a representation of "history", it's a fantasy scenario with Japan on steroids... so complaining about Japan's production - well - that's what you signed up for.
If you want to compare "real history" to "WITP-AE", then you must play Scen 1 and see what happens in '44, '45.
Has anyone done that yet?
If you want to compare "real history" to "WITP-AE", then you must play Scen 1 and see what happens in '44, '45.
Has anyone done that yet?
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
Rader HQ, early 1945
"Sweep the Leg."
"But, sir, you're talking about using jet fighters against P-39s! It's inhuman!"
"I said, Sweep the Leg! Do you have a problem with that?"
"No, Sensei."
With apologies to non-GenXers who didn't see Karate Kid. [:D]
Scary stuff. JFB that I am, I've always said that the Allied production numbers in AE represent what they needed to trash Japan IRL, not the total potential a/c production of the USA. If we needed more, we'd have made them.
"Sweep the Leg."
"But, sir, you're talking about using jet fighters against P-39s! It's inhuman!"
"I said, Sweep the Leg! Do you have a problem with that?"
"No, Sensei."
With apologies to non-GenXers who didn't see Karate Kid. [:D]
Scary stuff. JFB that I am, I've always said that the Allied production numbers in AE represent what they needed to trash Japan IRL, not the total potential a/c production of the USA. If we needed more, we'd have made them.
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Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
To the extent that there is any angst, it's the fact that the exact proportions of Scenario Two were rather unknown and unexplored when the game came out. Everybody knew certain things - more infantry, more destroyers, ect. But it wasn't until we got into the game that we began bumping our heads into certain other advantages we hadn't expected - like Star Wars.
I would expect the Japanese airforce to be a shambles if it had lost 38k aircraft to 18k for the Allies. Japan should be able to put up just a handful or poorly piloted plains - or, perhaps it should be that the Allies should be able to flood the skies overwhelming Japan. But that isn't the case, as GJ's game abundantly demonstrates.
I would expect the Japanese airforce to be a shambles if it had lost 38k aircraft to 18k for the Allies. Japan should be able to put up just a handful or poorly piloted plains - or, perhaps it should be that the Allies should be able to flood the skies overwhelming Japan. But that isn't the case, as GJ's game abundantly demonstrates.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
The problem is that all his factory bases are very well defended by hundreds of fighters and , with the new patch (that i firmly love) michealm has made for us, the CAP works really better..so every raid should be escorted by hundreds of long-legged fighters (AKA P-47s, P-38s or P-51) that will be sacrified in the intent of covering the bombers...which means, as you well understand, that i'll end up my best fighters pool within a couple of raids...
So it's a "dilemma"...don't have a "good" option imho..
This was a sleepy turn...with both parts licking their wounds after the battles of the last week...we have partially reorganized our air force and we started back on bombing Hachinoe...
However this turn gave us some answers....
@ Castor: take a look of the effect of japanese CD guns against my supply convoys unloading (only supplies) at Aikita....
@everybody: look at the difference between allied ASW TFs and japanese ASW TFs....i've lost 10 subs in the last 20 days in southern seas due to his "E" classes...they are more than deadly!!!!
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 16, 44
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ASW attack near Hirosaki/Aomori at 117,54
Japanese Ships
SS I-174, hits 4
Allied Ships
DD Stockham
DD Wadsworth
DD Wadleigh
DD Trathen
SS I-174 is sighted by escort
DD Wadsworth fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Wadleigh attacking submerged sub ....
DD Trathen attacking submerged sub ....
DD Wadleigh fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Trathen attacking submerged sub ....
DD Wadleigh fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Trathen fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Trathen fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Trathen attacking submerged sub ....
DD Trathen cannot establish contact with SS I-174
DD Trathen loses contact with SS I-174
DD Trathen attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-174 eludes DD Trathen by diving deep
SS I-174 eludes ASW attack from DD Trathen
DD Trathen fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub vs Sub: SS Clyde attacking SS I-154 at 116,54 - near Hirosaki/Aomori
Japanese Ships
SS I-154, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage[:D]
Allied Ships
SS Clyde
SS Clyde launches 6 torpedoes at 2,000 yards
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ASW attack near Niigata at 115,55
Japanese Ships
SS I-174, hits 6, heavy damage
Allied Ships
DD Wedderburn
DD Cassin Young
DD Young
SS I-174 launches 2 torpedoes at DD Wedderburn
I-174 diving deep ....
DD Cassin Young attacking submerged sub ....
DD Cassin Young loses contact with SS I-174
DD Young fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin Young fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Young fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Young fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Young attacking submerged sub ....
DD Young fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
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Night Naval bombardment of Hachinohe at 118,55 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
3 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
BB New Mexico
CA London
CA Australia
CA San Francisco
Japanese ground losses:
77 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 18 (2 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Manpower hits 4
Fires 1060
Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 16
Port hits 6
Port fuel hits 2
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Night Naval bombardment of Hachinohe at 118,55 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
9 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
BB Indiana
BB South Dakota
BB North Carolina
CA Astoria
CA Houston
DD Burns
Japanese ground losses:
303 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 19 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Iwaki at 123,68
Japanese Ships
E Mikura
E No.43
E Okinawa
E Daito
Allied Ships
SS Redfish, hits 31, and is sunk[X(]
SS Redfish launches 2 torpedoes at E Mikura
E No.43 fails to find sub and abandons search
E Okinawa fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Okinawa fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Okinawa attacking submerged sub ....
E Okinawa fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Okinawa attacking submerged sub ....
SS Redfish forced to surface!
E Daito firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.43 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Daito firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.43 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Daito firing on surfaced sub ....
E No.43 firing on surfaced sub ....
E Daito firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hachinohe , at 118,55
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes
Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 3
Liberator B.VI x 35
Wellington Ic x 19
Wellington GR.VIII x 15
Wellington B.X x 18
B-24D1 Liberator x 10
B-24J Liberator x 115
B-25D1 Mitchell x 60
B-25H Mitchell x 69
B-25J1 Mitchell x 5
B-29-1 Superfort x 88
P-38H Lightning x 10
FM-2 Wildcat x 168
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 46
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 9
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 42
PV-1 Ventura x 31
Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 1 damaged
Liberator B.VI: 9 damaged
Wellington Ic: 5 damaged
Wellington GR.VIII: 1 damaged
Wellington B.X: 7 damaged
Wellington B.X: 1 destroyed by flak
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 destroyed by flak
B-24J Liberator: 32 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 8 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25H Mitchell: 22 damaged
B-25J1 Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 26 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 15 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 5 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 10 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak
PV-1 Ventura: 17 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 1 destroyed by flak
Japanese ground losses:
505 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 98 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Port hits 25
Port fuel hits 3
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Wake Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 93rd Division ...
Also attacking 33rd Division ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking 5th Depot Division ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 4th Guards Division ...
Also attacking 116th Division ...
Also attacking 15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 1st Mobile Infantry Regiment ...
Also attacking 151st AA Regiment ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Wake Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 11th Ind.Mixed Regiment ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 53rd Division ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 82nd Infantry Brigade ...
Also attacking 11th Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Wake Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 116th Division ...
Also attacking 15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 28th Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking Wake Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Wake Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 93rd Division ...
Also attacking 33rd Division ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking 5th Depot Division ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 4th Guards Division ...
Also attacking 116th Division ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking Wake Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 5th Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 1st Mobile Engineer Regiment ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 48th Field Artillery Regiment ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Wake Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 116th Division ...
Also attacking 15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 26th Field Artillery Regiment ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 12th Naval Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 71st Mountain Gun Regiment ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 17, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Akita (117,55)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
304 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
xAK Cape Ann, Shell hits 30, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Cape Greig, Shell hits 17, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Cape Elizabeth, Shell hits 17, on fire
xAK Cape Chalmers
xAK Cape Kildare, Shell hits 2
xAK Cape Stephens, Shell hits 4, on fire
xAK William Schirmer
xAK Sampan
AK Deimos
xAK Otis Skinner
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Greig at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
15cm 41YT CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12.7cm 3YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm 41YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Greig at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Chalmers at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Greig at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12.7cm 3YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Greig at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Kildare at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Greig at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12.7cm 3YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Ann at 12,000 yards
xAK William Schirmer fired at enemy troops
xAK Sampan fired at enemy troops
AK Deimos fired at enemy troops
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Hachijo-jima at 117,68
Japanese Ships
E Etoforu
E No.27
E Manju
Allied Ships
SS Herring, hits 10, heavy damage[:o]
SS Herring launches 2 torpedoes at E Etoforu
E No.27 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Manju fails to find sub and abandons search
E No.27 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.27 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.27 attacking submerged sub ....
E No.27 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.27 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hachinohe , at 118,55
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 7
A6M5c Zero x 2
Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 14
Liberator B.VI x 33
Wellington Ic x 15
Wellington GR.VIII x 15
Wellington B.X x 13
B-24D1 Liberator x 9
B-24J Liberator x 117
B-25D1 Mitchell x 63
B-25H Mitchell x 45
B-25J1 Mitchell x 5
B-29-1 Superfort x 85
P-38H Lightning x 10
FM-2 Wildcat x 171
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 40
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 9
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 40
PV-1 Ventura x 32
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 3 damaged
Liberator B.VI: 18 damaged
Wellington Ic: 6 damaged
Wellington GR.VIII: 3 damaged
Wellington B.X: 7 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 4 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 20 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25D1 Mitchell: 21 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25H Mitchell: 17 damaged
B-25J1 Mitchell: 2 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 51 damaged
FM-2 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 26 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 2 destroyed by flak
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 5 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 13 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak
PV-1 Ventura: 24 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 1 destroyed by flak
Japanese ground losses:
992 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 73 disabled
Non Combat: 14 destroyed, 278 disabled
Engineers: 14 destroyed, 45 disabled
Guns lost 105 (2 destroyed, 103 disabled)
Vehicles lost 38 (2 destroyed, 36 disabled)
Port hits 47
Port fuel hits 9
Port supply hits 5
CAP engaged:
S-304 Hikotai with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(7 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
S-310 Hikotai with A6M3a Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(11 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
345 Ku S-1 with A6M3a Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(12 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 4th Guards Division ...
Also attacking Wake Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 33rd Division ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 93rd Division ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 5th Depot Division ...
Also attacking 53rd Division ...
Also attacking 116th Division ...
Also attacking 8th Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking 36th Division ...
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 11th Ind.Mixed Regiment ...
Also attacking 151st AA Regiment ...
Also attacking 11th Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 7th Ind.Tank Brigade ...
Also attacking 71st Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 27th Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking 3rd Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking 28th Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 1st Mobile Engineer Regiment ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 5th Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 26th Field Artillery Regiment ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 49th Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 12th Naval Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 48th Field Artillery Regiment ...
Also attacking 11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion ...
Also attacking 33rd Division ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking 1st Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 93rd Division ...
Also attacking 33rd Division ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 204th Naval Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 3rd Mortar Regiment ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 21st Ind. Engineer Regiment ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 93rd Division ...
Also attacking 4th Guards Division ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 206th Naval Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking 36th Division ...
Also attacking 4th Guards Division ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 6th Naval Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 36th Division ...
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 1st Ind. Engineer Regiment ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 93rd Division ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 53rd Division ...
Also attacking 36th Division ...
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 4th Guards Division ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking 25th Ind. Engineer Regiment ...
Also attacking 13th Naval Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 116th Division ...
Also attacking 50th Field AA Battalion ...
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 14th Base Force ...
Also attacking 3rd IJN Special Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking Kure 7th SNLF ...
Also attacking 4th Guards Division ...
Also attacking Wake Coastal Gun Battalion ...
Also attacking 33rd Division ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 5th Depot Division ...
Also attacking 116th Division ...
Also attacking 8th Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 4th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 33rd Division ...
Also attacking 36th Division ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 116th Division ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 33rd Division ...
Also attacking Hachinohe ...
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 7th Base Force ...
Also attacking 72nd Division ...
Also attacking Combined 8th SNLF ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 93rd Division ...
Also attacking 32nd Division ...
Also attacking 53rd Division ...
Also attacking 36th Division ...
Also attacking 60th Construction Battalion ...
Also attacking 116th Division ...
Also attacking 86th Division ...
Also attacking 52nd Division ...
Also attacking 48th Recon Regiment ...
Also attacking 93rd Division ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Akita (117,55)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
282 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
xAK Cape Stephens, Shell hits 19, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Cape Chalmers, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Cape Elizabeth, Shell hits 18, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Cape Kildare, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAK Cape Fairweather
xAK William Schirmer
xAK Sampan
AK Deimos
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Chalmers at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12.7cm 3YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
8cm 41YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Chalmers at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Chalmers at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Chalmers at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
15cm 41YT CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12.7cm 3YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Kildare at 12,000 yards
8cm 41YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Fairweather at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Chalmers at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12.7cm 3YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Stephens at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Chalmers at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Elizabeth at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Cape Kildare at 12,000 yards
xAK William Schirmer fired at enemy troops
xAK Sampan fired at enemy troops
AK Deimos fired at enemy troops
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
I have no problem with scenario 2 guys.
Just stop thinking about RL happenings and play the game as what it really is...a game.
Despite everything we've managed to reach the gates of japan and we're now fighting on the beaches of Tokyo bay....can we really complain?
The "air thing" is a problem....but it's a problem we've learnt to deal with since 1942....in 1942 we were facing sweeps of 400 Tojos with P-40s and Hurricanes....now we'll be facing hordes of Shidens, KI-83s and Ki-201 with Mustangs and P-47s...i say we've improoved our overall situation [:D]
The key is just don't think about RL...and always play as if you are the weak side...it gives a better taste when you win[:'(]
No, seriously, we have better pilots, and i can say by 1945 we're gonna have a very good flow of good a/c...not superior to his best ones, but for sure not that inferior...you just have to play defensively and don't think you can sweep the skies of Japan with impunity...that's the secret
Just stop thinking about RL happenings and play the game as what it really is...a game.
Despite everything we've managed to reach the gates of japan and we're now fighting on the beaches of Tokyo bay....can we really complain?
The "air thing" is a problem....but it's a problem we've learnt to deal with since 1942....in 1942 we were facing sweeps of 400 Tojos with P-40s and Hurricanes....now we'll be facing hordes of Shidens, KI-83s and Ki-201 with Mustangs and P-47s...i say we've improoved our overall situation [:D]
The key is just don't think about RL...and always play as if you are the weak side...it gives a better taste when you win[:'(]
No, seriously, we have better pilots, and i can say by 1945 we're gonna have a very good flow of good a/c...not superior to his best ones, but for sure not that inferior...you just have to play defensively and don't think you can sweep the skies of Japan with impunity...that's the secret
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
ORIGINAL: Cribtop
Rader HQ, early 1945
"Sweep the Leg."
"But, sir, you're talking about using jet fighters against P-39s! It's inhuman!"
"I said, Sweep the Leg! Do you have a problem with that?"
"No, Sensei."
With apologies to non-GenXers who didn't see Karate Kid. [:D]
Scary stuff. JFB that I am, I've always said that the Allied production numbers in AE represent what they needed to trash Japan IRL, not the total potential a/c production of the USA. If we needed more, we'd have made them.
Great Quote and visual from one who still enjoys watching Daniel-san work things out with Mr. Miyagi!
I've always stayed away from Scen 2 because of much that is described here. I don't want to play TOTAL fantasy where the Japanese Fleet, air units, and Army get a HUGE addition to their opening abilities and large additions to the during the war capabilities. To me: it is way too much.
Since I love the Navy, I enjoy working with that (this is Reluctant Admiral's premise) but the work we did in expanding and tweaking was 'paid for' by a massive drawdown of Japanese fuel and supply to pay for the changes. Scenario 2 doesn't appear to do this in the least. The Allies also gain various items to counter balance the initial enhanced Japanese strength. That item does not appear to be the case with Scenario 2.
My .02...
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
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HansBolter
- Posts: 7456
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
ORIGINAL: AcePylut
Ladies and gentlemen - we can not compare Scenario 2 to "real history". Scenario two is not supposed to be a representation of "history", it's a fantasy scenario with Japan on steroids... so complaining about Japan's production - well - that's what you signed up for.
If you want to compare "real history" to "WITP-AE", then you must play Scen 1 and see what happens in '44, '45.
Has anyone done that yet?
probably not since all the JFBs seem to be willing to play is their wetdream scenario [;)]
and btw....this IS a tongue in cheek jab for those not capable of discerning
Hans
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JohnDillworth
- Posts: 3104
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:22 pm
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
Canoerebal is fond of sending 2 or 4 DD TF's deep into indian country. You might want to consider that. Netties don't really do a great job against DD's and the chance of running into a significant surface force is low. He probably has plenty of ASW escort but I bet it's wouldn't hold up well in a surface match with 4 Fletcher Class DD's. Send out a bunch of small combat TF's into the DEI or south japan and see what happens. I have another sinister idea but I don't know if the engine supports it. Can you escort a SS with a DD? Might take out a bunch of E-class that way and force him to escort better, which he probably can't do as most of his CA's & CL's are goneGod knows that i've tried to interdict his sealanes...since 1942...with my subs
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
ORIGINAL: Nemo121
cwDeici: that maths is highly suspect being he result of a conclusion built on foundations made of multiple suppositions.
Could you be more specific, please? I really won't mind.
I guess you're referring to my wild guess at Allied versus Japanese AC OTL in 44, or my other wild guess at how many AC Rader has total versus Greyjoy in-game. I'm sure I got the 205% in-game casualty figure right though, but I'm completely aware I may be terribly wrong about the others (that's why I put 'guess' there ^^).
Anyway Wikipedia says Japan's total fighter production for WW2 was 34,5k IIRC, and Rader has already lost over 38k+, and has thousands remaining and eleven months to produce more before 8/45 (and someone just said the words 'unfathomable' for 45). How much of this is the DEI and other conquered territories and how much is the difference between Sc1 and Sc2?
Please note this is not meant as a gripe against Sc2 and the difficulties GJ is facing, they are what makes his thread such a great read, just trying to get a rough handle on the level of differences.
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Grfin Zeppelin
- Posts: 1514
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:22 pm
- Location: Germany
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
He lost 38k PLANES, not fighters thats a huge difference.ORIGINAL: cwDeici
ORIGINAL: Nemo121
cwDeici: that maths is highly suspect being he result of a conclusion built on foundations made of multiple suppositions.
Could you be more specific, please? I really won't mind.
I guess you're referring to my wild guess at allied AC numbers compared to Japan OTL in 44, or my other wild guess at how many AC Rader has versus Greyjoy in-game. I'm sure I got the 205% in-game casualty figure right though, but I'm completely aware I may be terribly wrong about the others (that's why I put 'guess' there ^^).
Anyway Wikipedia says Japan's total fighter production for WW2 was 34,5k IIRC, and Rader has already lost over 38k+, and has thousands remaining and eleven months to produce more before 8/45. If there isn't that much of a difference in the number of airframes in Sc1 and Sc2 does this mean that if Japan had managed to hold onto the DEI and conquer further territories OTL that it would've had nearly comparable AC numbers to this game?
Please note this is not meant as a grape about the difficulties GJ is facing, which is what makes his thread such a great read, just trying to get a rough handle on the level of differences.
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
He lost 38k PLANES, not fighters thats a huge difference.ORIGINAL: cwDeici
ORIGINAL: Nemo121
cwDeici: that maths is highly suspect being he result of a conclusion built on foundations made of multiple suppositions.
Could you be more specific, please? I really won't mind.
I guess you're referring to my wild guess at allied AC numbers compared to Japan OTL in 44, or my other wild guess at how many AC Rader has versus Greyjoy in-game. I'm sure I got the 205% in-game casualty figure right though, but I'm completely aware I may be terribly wrong about the others (that's why I put 'guess' there ^^).
Anyway Wikipedia says Japan's total fighter production for WW2 was 34,5k IIRC, and Rader has already lost over 38k+, and has thousands remaining and eleven months to produce more before 8/45. If there isn't that much of a difference in the number of airframes in Sc1 and Sc2 does this mean that if Japan had managed to hold onto the DEI and conquer further territories OTL that it would've had nearly comparable AC numbers to this game?
Please note this is not meant as a grape about the difficulties GJ is facing, which is what makes his thread such a great read, just trying to get a rough handle on the level of differences.
Oh! How silly of me... Thanks!
Well, let's talk about something else, like surface raiding against tankers/oilers... or something. ^^
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
Thus, Allied players are guaranteeing that they will lose air parity early and often just because of the defacto early research.
Except of course for the in-game reality that some Allied players playing Scenario 2 haven't lost air parity and have actually achieved air superiority early in the game ( mid to late 1942 ). It is easy to throw around statements like "people are guaranteeing x" or "This is what WILL happen" or "if they lose this then this MUST happen" but the reality is that those statements aren't supported by the objective reality of AARs posted here.
Most Allied players cede Japan aerial superiority in 1942 and 1943 but not all do. If you look at ALL of the AARs you can find several Scenario 2 AARs in which the IJNAF and IJAAF were functionally defeated in mid to late 1942. Only if you ignore those AARs in which Allied players prevailed in the air in 1942 and 43 ( nevermind 1944 or 45 ) can you say that the air war is guaranteed to go in favour of Japan. The challenge is greater than in Scenario 1 but several players have managed to defeat the IJAAF and IJNAF in 42/43 and only by actually including ALL of the data available will we actually be able to make statements which are worth listening to. A statement which ignores a significant portion of AARs in making a point about the inevitability of a given situation is a worthless statement. It'd be like me saying that by ignoring all cases where someone shot with a bullet died I could prove that bullets never killed anyone. Yes, the statement is true but only because my inclusion and exclusion criteria are so ludicrous as to make any conclusion drawn irrelevant to actual real-world experience.
I'd ask people to think before they go getting themselves all fired up about x or y being inevitable based on an incomplete sampling of AARs because what starts here with some people making statements which simply cannot be supported by objective, available reports from Scenario 2 games could quickly become yet another hue and cry demanding unnecessary changes from Michaelm because of the "inevitability" of things which are not inevitable and only occur because the Allied player let them happen or played poorly.
cwDeici,
I will answer since it doesn't apply to this game. Most sources I've read spoke of Japan producing between 72,000 and 82,000 military planes throughout the war. There's a bit of fudging based on whether trainer x was a military plane or a non-military one pressed into military service etc. Bottom line though, if you split the difference, Japan built 77,000 planes during the war years with 47,000 of them being built in 1943/44. That's 2,000 planes a month with Japan's hideous bureaucracy. Given that the player CAN eliminate all sorts of poor planning, poor resource allocation, duplication etc etc etc it shouldn't be surprising to us that an Allied player who captured all of the DEI and most of India and gained the benefits of Indian HI/resources/oil etc has, by now, built an industrial base, R&D base and aircraft production base significantly superior to what WW2 Japan actually achieved.
After all, if Japan had conquered and held most of India for a year or year and a half I'm sure they'd have built more than 2,000 planes a month during that time period also.
People will retort that since many of the 77000 were trainers there were constraints on engine size which would have limited new generations of fighters being built in the numbers envisaged etc. They may be right but the game doesn't model that. It takes as much to build a new 800 hp engine factory as it does to build a 2500hp engine factory. That may be an area that requires looking at and, actually, in my mod it is an area I edited so it costs more to build and repair more advanced engine factories than obsolescent ones ( which I think is an improvement in realism ). But, as it stands, in the official scenarios an engine factory is an engine factory is an engine factory. The model could be improved but they have chosen not to do so officially yet.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Well, that's that settled then.
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Chickenboy
- Posts: 24606
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
Yes. Several have. I'm midway through July 1943, so I'll be there before long. Personally, I like scenario 1 with my long-standing PBEM partner. He's historical-minded, so we're having a very manageable game out of it. I don't know if I'd be so fortunate with an uber-aggressive "damn the torpedoes" sort of Allied player.ORIGINAL: AcePylut
Ladies and gentlemen - we can not compare Scenario 2 to "real history". Scenario two is not supposed to be a representation of "history", it's a fantasy scenario with Japan on steroids... so complaining about Japan's production - well - that's what you signed up for.
If you want to compare "real history" to "WITP-AE", then you must play Scen 1 and see what happens in '44, '45.
Has anyone done that yet?
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
Nemo
How on earth did they achieve that? I am struggling in March 43 to achieve parity in Scenario 1!!!! My opponents have thrown a lot of effort into research and I have been facing Georges (first version) since Feb with my P-40K's. His Tojo's and A6M5's are his weaker fighters. From the reparte in the emails I get the feeling Franks aren't far away - certainly available in second half of '43. Seems a long way to air superiority from here. Air losses thus far are about equal.
Cheers
Andrew
How on earth did they achieve that? I am struggling in March 43 to achieve parity in Scenario 1!!!! My opponents have thrown a lot of effort into research and I have been facing Georges (first version) since Feb with my P-40K's. His Tojo's and A6M5's are his weaker fighters. From the reparte in the emails I get the feeling Franks aren't far away - certainly available in second half of '43. Seems a long way to air superiority from here. Air losses thus far are about equal.
Cheers
Andrew
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
Quick thread Hijack, sorry
I think the "problem" is making the Japanese more competitive in 1943-44, rather than making the Japanese stronger in 1942.
I'd like to see a scenario with more "garrison" units in late 1942 and 1943. Maybe some more warships, always nice
The Japanese aircraft production system can already be manipulated enough (with a fair bit of effort and risk) to make Japanese aircraft competitive in 1943.
The benefit of Scenario 2 is that it is obviously "fantasy". Getting people to play Japanese in Scen 1 though is increasingly very difficult.
Part though is changing the JFB psyche where they want to conquer the world... and get upset when they don't/can't.
This game is very interesting, thank you for the land attack on Japan! Always wanted to do that.
Cheers
Rob
I think the "problem" is making the Japanese more competitive in 1943-44, rather than making the Japanese stronger in 1942.
I'd like to see a scenario with more "garrison" units in late 1942 and 1943. Maybe some more warships, always nice
The Japanese aircraft production system can already be manipulated enough (with a fair bit of effort and risk) to make Japanese aircraft competitive in 1943.
The benefit of Scenario 2 is that it is obviously "fantasy". Getting people to play Japanese in Scen 1 though is increasingly very difficult.
Part though is changing the JFB psyche where they want to conquer the world... and get upset when they don't/can't.
This game is very interesting, thank you for the land attack on Japan! Always wanted to do that.
Cheers
Rob
AE BETA Breaker
RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE
Aoffen,
How was it achieved? A careful analysis of the two forces and self-discipline. That's all it takes.
In terms of AARs showing this...
Well there's at least one scenario in which the Allies were on the offensive by March 1942 and re-invaded Malaysia in May 1942 ( causing the Japanese opponent to quit ) and in which the Allied air force was regularly achieving 2 or 3 to 1 kill rates in the air - it even featured a half-dozen B-339 Dutch aces ( which is something you rarely see - especially since most of the B-339 kills were Zeroes and Oscars. ).
I'm aware of a game vs jwilkerson and Nikademus in which the Allies managed to lure them into unfavourable aerial battles and turned the tables very early as well.
CR hasn't achieved aerial superiority in his game but he's not too far off ( although some of that may be a morale failure on his opponents part ). I think a lot of lessons which might be drawn from that AAR aren't actually good lessons to draw but it is an AAR in which Japan hasn't been able to impose its aerial will in '42.
The third example is accessible but should be used with caution. The first two examples are, I believe, good examples of Japan not being able to impose its aerial will. The second example ( Nikademus and jwilkerson ) is, I believe, a Scenario 1 game. The other game is definitely a Scenario 2 game and so features a Japan with all the steroid boosters. IIRC Japanese aerial superiority lasted into the end of February.
I'm sure there are others but those 3 are the AARs I think of when trying to explain how this can be done.
How was it achieved? A careful analysis of the two forces and self-discipline. That's all it takes.
In terms of AARs showing this...
Well there's at least one scenario in which the Allies were on the offensive by March 1942 and re-invaded Malaysia in May 1942 ( causing the Japanese opponent to quit ) and in which the Allied air force was regularly achieving 2 or 3 to 1 kill rates in the air - it even featured a half-dozen B-339 Dutch aces ( which is something you rarely see - especially since most of the B-339 kills were Zeroes and Oscars. ).
I'm aware of a game vs jwilkerson and Nikademus in which the Allies managed to lure them into unfavourable aerial battles and turned the tables very early as well.
CR hasn't achieved aerial superiority in his game but he's not too far off ( although some of that may be a morale failure on his opponents part ). I think a lot of lessons which might be drawn from that AAR aren't actually good lessons to draw but it is an AAR in which Japan hasn't been able to impose its aerial will in '42.
The third example is accessible but should be used with caution. The first two examples are, I believe, good examples of Japan not being able to impose its aerial will. The second example ( Nikademus and jwilkerson ) is, I believe, a Scenario 1 game. The other game is definitely a Scenario 2 game and so features a Japan with all the steroid boosters. IIRC Japanese aerial superiority lasted into the end of February.
I'm sure there are others but those 3 are the AARs I think of when trying to explain how this can be done.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Well, that's that settled then.