MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Orm

I recommend that China stays in the war a bit longer.

This I agree on. Let the Japanese decide what to do about China. Only if by surrendering you are getting at least an 80% chanche on DoW'ing Japan succesfully with the USA in the next impulse, you might decide otherwise. If not: keep China alive.

The reason this is troubling me is that I won't have 80%, but I'll have a very good chance at 70%.

As always, my opinion is make the enemy fight for every thing that he wants. Free gifts the Axis will always greedily take.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: composer99

To be fair, Bessarabia is in the arctic area if memory serves, so snow should be suitable for a March/April DoW.

BTW: haven't seen an end-of-turn report. I assume that's because the various players concerned about the US gear up (in particular US player Red Prince, Japan player Red Prince, CW player Red Prince) are engaged in some serious cogitation. [;)]

The Bessarabia in the Arctic is only parial (see below).

The reason I haven't given an end-of-turn report yet is that I still haven't figured out the best thing to do with China. To surrender or not to surrender . . . that is the question . . . whether 'tis nobler to go down without a fight and try to help the USA enter the war . . . or suffer the slings and arrows of an Extreme-DOW party . . . I just can't decide what to do, and that's going to impact builds and even where I return units to base.

Now, about Bessarabia, here's how the last impulse of J/F '41 looked. If something similar happens, and the Axis gets the first impulse, how useful is this, really?

With all the Stukas down south, as the USSR I would pull as many units as possible out of those hexes. Ground strikes on 3 units in a clear hex during the surprise turn are a German dream come true.

EDIT: and the division does not have a ZOC, so a reserve will have to be added to Cernauti to prevent the Germans running freely through the line. What bothers me the most is there are 11 units here (I like the unit in Lvov) to hold onto the Odessa factory. 3 more reserve units appear to be scheduled for this area. I would have chosen 1 unit (in Odessa) plus the 3 reserves. Wouldn't those other 10 units look lovely positioned along the Dnieper?

This is why I don't want to DOW on a bad weather impulse as Germany. I'd rather make the USSR try to withdraw these units and set up the Persian border on 5 land moves an impulse until I've got a good opportunity to really hit them hard.

With all due respect, Steve, those units have been down there for ages. As you may have seen in one of my posts upthread, I finally figured out what you were driving at, but it's a little late to be saying "Wouldn't those other 10 units look lovely positioned along the Dnieper?" [;)] Communists, short turns and bad weather. Too much to do, and too little time.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Centuur



This I agree on. Let the Japanese decide what to do about China. Only if by surrendering you are getting at least an 80% chanche on DoW'ing Japan succesfully with the USA in the next impulse, you might decide otherwise. If not: keep China alive.

The reason this is troubling me is that I won't have 80%, but I'll have a very good chance at 70%.

As always, my opinion is make the enemy fight for every thing that he wants. Free gifts the Axis will always greedily take.

Ah, but this isn't truly a free gift, Steve. The Japanese almost have their troops positioned how they want them set for the upcoming wars. If China surrenders, 14 of the Japanese land units come off the map instantly.

[composer99]

IMO if the Chinese had surrendered while the main Japanese army was still deep in China (say, right after finishing off Sian) the effect on Japan would have been even more dramatic: not only do a big chunk of units get pulled off but the rest have to redeploy using combineds (and only 1 naval unit moving per naval move to boot). I do understand why Red Prince wanted to wait until 1941 because of the higher US entry chit values, though.

My point is: the territory was not free for Japan. Not free at all.

Red Prince: can you post some screenshots of the Japanese dispositions? I'd say the decision for China depends on whether it will still mess up the Japanese redeployment beyond the disappearance of the reserves. If the Japanese look like they're ready to invade NEI the Chinese can sit tight and hope the Allies can afford to pass down some LL down the Burma Road.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

IMO if the Chinese had surrendered while the main Japanese army was still deep in China (say, right after finishing off Sian) the effect on Japan would have been even more dramatic: not only do a big chunk of units get pulled off but the rest have to redeploy using combineds (and only 1 naval unit moving per naval move to boot). I do understand why Red Prince wanted to wait until 1941 because of the higher US entry chit values, though.

My point is: the territory was not free for Japan. Not free at all.

Red Prince: can you post some screenshots of the Japanese dispositions? I'd say the decision for China depends on whether it will still mess up the Japanese redeployment beyond the disappearance of the reserves. If the Japanese look like they're ready to invade NEI the Chinese can sit tight and hope the Allies can afford to pass down some LL down the Burma Road.

You guys keep forgetting that the Burma Road is Closed. I'm just finishing up my return to base moves now. Then I'll post some screenshots.
-----
Edit: None of the screenshots will show weather, because that is still up in the air (get it?)

[composer99]

If it's closed politically, it is reopened automatically by the US going to war with Japan.

[Red Prince]

Okay, the first in a series of 6 screenshots:

1 of 6 . . . The threat to Malaya:

[Red Prince]

2 of 6 . . . Unlimited possibilities from East Timor:

[Red Prince]

3 of 6 . . . Gathering forces in Canton and Macao:

[Red Prince]

4 of 6 . . . Hanoi in trouble, and the Kunming threat:

[Red Prince]

5 of 6 . . . Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide OR Manchuria bound:

[Red Prince]

6 of 6 . . . Vanishing reinforcements:

[Red Prince]

7 of 6? . . . even without HQ supply support, this fella can cut most of Siberia off from the rest of the USSR in just 2 turns:

[Red Prince]

8? of 6 . . . Vladivostok not under serious threat:

[Red Prince]

And, finally . . . The Road to Mandalay . . . (sorry, I just couldn't help myself) [:D]

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince


The Bessarabia in the Arctic is only parial (see below).

The reason I haven't given an end-of-turn report yet is that I still haven't figured out the best thing to do with China. To surrender or not to surrender . . . that is the question . . . whether 'tis nobler to go down without a fight and try to help the USA enter the war . . . or suffer the slings and arrows of an Extreme-DOW party . . . I just can't decide what to do, and that's going to impact builds and even where I return units to base.

Now, about Bessarabia, here's how the last impulse of J/F '41 looked. If something similar happens, and the Axis gets the first impulse, how useful is this, really?

With all the Stukas down south, as the USSR I would pull as many units as possible out of those hexes. Ground strikes on 3 units in a clear hex during the surprise turn are a German dream come true.

EDIT: and the division does not have a ZOC, so a reserve will have to be added to Cernauti to prevent the Germans running freely through the line. What bothers me the most is there are 11 units here (I like the unit in Lvov) to hold onto the Odessa factory. 3 more reserve units appear to be scheduled for this area. I would have chosen 1 unit (in Odessa) plus the 3 reserves. Wouldn't those other 10 units look lovely positioned along the Dnieper?

This is why I don't want to DOW on a bad weather impulse as Germany. I'd rather make the USSR try to withdraw these units and set up the Persian border on 5 land moves an impulse until I've got a good opportunity to really hit them hard.

With all due respect, Steve, those units have been down there for ages. As you may have seen in one of my posts upthread, I finally figured out what you were driving at, but it's a little late to be saying "Wouldn't those other 10 units look lovely positioned along the Dnieper?" [;)] Communists, short turns and bad weather. Too much to do, and too little time.

The screening force of Odessa is too big. What you should have done, is get two unit stacks into Chisinau and the hexes SE and NE of that city. Together with one unit into Odessa, that than means the factory is going to be rail moved out. Now you have 4 units too much there. But what's done is done. I must say that I haven't paid enough attention at this area.
So I suggest: move from both 3 unit stack's a corps into Chisinau. Move the southernmost stack one hex NE. Move the MTN into Cernauti. This makes things a little better.
Yes, this will mean that you are using all your movements for the impulse. However, you should do so, since Chisinau need to be defended with the units now in the area. Remember: all those units around here are likely to get killed in the first turn. No escape possible, except for the Factory in Odessa and one unit you got in there. Those you will rail out into safety. Next impulse: you can rail move one unit out of Chisinau and move the two stack SW of the place into the city. So hope for bad weather to continue, and you can (and should) try to fix this.
I don't know how things are looking at the Persian - USSR border, but I don't think the HQ's needed for Axis supply are in position there at the moment, are they? So that gives you time to fix things at Chisinau. Or am I mistaken?

By the way: the CW should be harassing the Italians in South East Africa by now, aren't they? It's time to become aggressive with the British in remote area's of the world. Also: if you can STRAT bomb Lille, do so if the Germans haven't got at least the same number of FTR's in the area as the CW has got there. Take also into account the range of the bombers you have. There might be a factory around which hasn't got FTR cover. If there is, STRAT it. If there isn't: well it sure looks the CW did keep a lot of FTR's out of the Eastern front...

[composer99]

Looking at the screenshots the Japanese are still very strung out with a lot of army still needing to redeploy to get where it wants to go for future DoWs, especially the MAR corps, and lots of units getting pulled off when Japan goes neutral (including 60% of the forces currently facing Kunming).

My vote is China surrenders. Japan has to DoW someone just to get the units it needs in position to do the things it wants to do when attacking the Western Allies and has its reseves appear disorganized in Japan.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Looking at the screenshots the Japanese are still very strung out with a lot of army still needing to redeploy to get where it wants to go for future DoWs, especially the MAR corps, and lots of units getting pulled off when Japan goes neutral (including 60% of the forces currently facing Kunming).

My vote is China surrenders. Japan has to DoW someone just to get the units it needs in position to do the things it wants to do when attacking the Western Allies and has its reseves appear disorganized in Japan.

Okay, we have one vote for Surrender. I'm into Production now, so it's getting close to "decision time" on this one. (I can put it off until tomorrow if more people want to vote on this one).

[paulderynck]

I vote No. China is worth much more alive then dead, especially later on when they start infiltrating back and Japan is going crazy trying to decide on their action choice.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


With all the Stukas down south, as the USSR I would pull as many units as possible out of those hexes. Ground strikes on 3 units in a clear hex during the surprise turn are a German dream come true.

EDIT: and the division does not have a ZOC, so a reserve will have to be added to Cernauti to prevent the Germans running freely through the line. What bothers me the most is there are 11 units here (I like the unit in Lvov) to hold onto the Odessa factory. 3 more reserve units appear to be scheduled for this area. I would have chosen 1 unit (in Odessa) plus the 3 reserves. Wouldn't those other 10 units look lovely positioned along the Dnieper?

This is why I don't want to DOW on a bad weather impulse as Germany. I'd rather make the USSR try to withdraw these units and set up the Persian border on 5 land moves an impulse until I've got a good opportunity to really hit them hard.

With all due respect, Steve, those units have been down there for ages. As you may have seen in one of my posts upthread, I finally figured out what you were driving at, but it's a little late to be saying "Wouldn't those other 10 units look lovely positioned along the Dnieper?" [;)] Communists, short turns and bad weather. Too much to do, and too little time.

The screening force of Odessa is too big. What you should have done, is get two unit stacks into Chisinau and the hexes SE and NE of that city. Together with one unit into Odessa, that than means the factory is going to be rail moved out. Now you have 4 units too much there. But what's done is done. I must say that I haven't paid enough attention at this area.
So I suggest: move from both 3 unit stack's a corps into Chisinau. Move the southernmost stack one hex NE. Move the MTN into Cernauti. This makes things a little better.
Yes, this will mean that you are using all your movements for the impulse. However, you should do so, since Chisinau need to be defended with the units now in the area. Remember: all those units around here are likely to get killed in the first turn. No escape possible, except for the Factory in Odessa and one unit you got in there. Those you will rail out into safety. Next impulse: you can rail move one unit out of Chisinau and move the two stack SW of the place into the city. So hope for bad weather to continue, and you can (and should) try to fix this.
I don't know how things are looking at the Persian - USSR border, but I don't think the HQ's needed for Axis supply are in position there at the moment, are they? So that gives you time to fix things at Chisinau. Or am I mistaken?

By the way: the CW should be harassing the Italians in South East Africa by now, aren't they? It's time to become aggressive with the British in remote area's of the world. Also: if you can STRAT bomb Lille, do so if the Germans haven't got at least the same number of FTR's in the area as the CW has got there. Take also into account the range of the bombers you have. There might be a factory around which hasn't got FTR cover. If there is, STRAT it. If there isn't: well it sure looks the CW did keep a lot of FTR's out of the Eastern front...

Persia is completely out of position, lacking 2 units and not ready to fight yet. But I figure they have a minimum of 3 impulses to try to correct this.

The Strat Bomber situation is a stalemate at the moment. In terms of FTR power, it's basically 2 on 2, with no holes for the Germans. There is only one truly dedicated Strat Bomber on the map, with 2-3 others that can help minimally. I'm building 2 long range FTR-3 this turn for the CW, so I can gain air superiority here (or force Germany to match it).

South East Africa suffered a little from the short winters. Most of that the 4 impulses the CW had the last two turns were needed to reposition the convoy fleet out of harm's way . . . or at least farthur from harm. That meant no land moves, or few land moves. But as the turns grow longer again, Wavell will be collecting his forces and working his way into the conquered lands.