Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part)

[zuluhour]

wow, to deep.

witp-ae [&o]

witp-ae forumites [&o][&o]

michaelm [&o][&o][&o] (and Alfred) for giving a sh*t when they probably don't have to.

I'd like to have all of you over for a bull roast.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Question: ( just to help me get my head around it ).

If there are 50 flights of fighters ( say 400 planes with 8 planes a flight ) and 400 bombers in 100 flights do 50 flights of fighters (400 fighters) engage 50 flights of bombers (200 bombers)?

If so, once all of the bombers are shot down ( let's assume each firing pass results in a kill to keep things simple ) do the 50 flights look for more bomber flights to attack or is each flight "exhausted" by combat with an enemy flight?

I'm asking because clarifying this is going to really help make any testing more valid and, obviously, it wasn't working quite the way I initially read it.

If the fighter flight still have planes that haven't 'withdrawn' after engaging the bomber flight, then they have a chance be selected again to fight in that same raid.

The CAP participating in one raid does not exclude them from partaking in attacking other raids in the same hex.

[budman999]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Don’t have an issue with what Brother Mathias is saying. He’s being very tactical and quite forthright. Just think about it.

My take is that the title is pretty much over. It’s worthwhile to fix bugs and such, but anything else is an attempt to stave off entropy. Entropy happens. People get bored. Things get tweaked.

The opposite of entropy is creativity. Making creative modifications, and explaining how and why, seems to work for many hundreds of people. Making piecewise tweaks to hold off entropy, for a few, just seems to make entropy everyone else so much harder.

Seems this thread topic has become the latest home for the loudest whiners. Strange they should decide to play here instead of the main forum, but perhaps not so strange if one thinks about it. Nevertheless, this thread is supposed to be about technical bugs. It has been hijacked long ago by #$%^^&**($ wannabes. So sad, but that’s what you get.

Babes people are negotiating with Matrix about letting us have our own code. A very bad thing for the game in general, I admit, but we just can’t continue with the present code being jerked around by someone who doesn’t understand the nominal algorithm.

Sorry, but there it is. Whine, scream, bitch, moan, hate, all you want. I think Mathias is right and Michael should sit back and take stock. Meanwhile, entropy progresses and there ain’t nothing that nobody can do about it.

Ciao. [:)]

I'm sorry, but the fixes Michael have made have dramatically improved the game since the last official patch. At least an effort is made to correct some of the more glaring shortcomings that are now evident as the game has had more exposure to more experienced 'game thinking' as well as the later war period.

These improvements don't just make the game better for a few, but also a large silent majority. If some change was so objectionable, I'm sure that more than a few people would speak up.
His efforts are commendable in making a product that we enjoy, even better.

As for entropy - whatever. This game, unlike many others has not left my drive since I bought it.

You can critique Michael if you wish, but in doing so you (and a select group of others) come across as elitist, know-it-all jerks.

[n01487477]

[edit]
Removed because I didn't want to lock the thread.

And as it would happen we're arguing about changes that haven't even made it into the "official" beta yet...

The late war air combat model should be tested more and I honestly can't understand how anyone could be against this.

[michaelm75au]

Guys, please calm down.

I don't want to see this thread locked.

If we are gong to continue to discuss aspects not directly related to bugs or changes in this beta (inc the air rounds) can we move it to another thread. This discussion is making it hard for me to identify posts that relate to possible bugs.

It is possible that you will the official beta (based on R9) soon.

[michaelm75au]

Just for information before I 'duck and cover'.
I am the one who implemented the code for the air combat based on feedback from Elf.
As part of that, I am the one who pick 200 as the magic number based on a crash course of reading/researching about dogfights. I can't recall (from 2yrs ago) reading lots of instances of 1000 CAP fighters defending against 1000 escort fighters in a single raid from day 1 in the Pacific War.

[BigDuke66]

As this topic came from this thread:
tm.asp?m=2989021
we should continue discussion there.

[Itdepends]

Hmmm- so some people don't like the changes being made to the exe? The one that their being "forced" to use? Ahh - but if they don't use the new exe's they don't get the advantage of all the interface improvements made by Michael. I would take that as a backhanded compliment to Michaels work- they like the improvements he made so much that they can't bear to be unable to use them due to some of the other changes he's made.

Kind of like saying- I really like you're work- but only if you work on the bits that I want you to.

[michaelm75au]

For those with a screen resolution ?? x 768 running in window mode, the last line with the industry icons tend to get cut off when centered at a base.

The latest beta (r9) allows you to pull down the game window to maximize this area. As a result it moves the screen so that the Windows info line (one showing the program name) gets cut off instead.

I only noticed this once I start using my new laptop which has 1322x768 as its default resolution and doesn't support any higher than 768. My other PCs use to have ??x800 or wider as the default or supported resolutions.

[sdevault]

Thanks michaelm for all the updates and answers to questions!

You have helped me enjoy this gem of a game so much more. The WITP games I waited for 25 years for and I will continue to enjoy them for another 25 years. If ever I live that long.

[JeffroK]

Maybe a small improvement to the chrome.
(I dont bother with combat animations)
After a combat you get a combat report, the spacing between lines is generous and you cant see the results without clicking on the box, as the game has so many small combats you click hundreds of times to see what's happening.
Can some of the spacing be minimized, so that 1 unit v 1 unit fits on the screen (Donth bother with GJ v Rader sized battles)

Plus, can the box be moved to a corner rather than right of the point of combat.

Morning Air attack on Kunming , at 69,48
 
Weather in hex: Overcast
 
Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      G4M1 Betty x 20
 
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged
 
 
Allied ground losses:
      4 casualties reported
         Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
         Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
 
 
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 53
 
Aircraft Attacking:
      20 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 5000 feet
               Airfield Attack:  2 x 250 kg GP Bomb,  4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

Morning Air attack on Kunming , at 69,48Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes
Japanese aircraft
      G4M1 Betty x 20
Japanese aircraft losses
      G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged
 Allied ground losses:
      4 casualties reported
         Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
         Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 53
Aircraft Attacking:
      20 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 5000 feet
               Airfield Attack:  2 x 250 kg GP Bomb,  4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
 

[michaelm75au]

From memory, the report is centered on the map. This was fine when wide-screen support wasn't present.

However, changing to draw from the corner would involve creating a new screen drawing option. This involves modifying the old game engine which I am reluctant to do at this time. Also, the combat report (and the engine) would need to be aware that it is wide screen and if there is room to move the report in order to see the combat hex (which I assume you want to).

Yea, the spacing is funny sometimes. It spaces out and reserves lines for somethings that aren't displayed.
Again reluctant to change this in case it breaks the combat tool that some wrote.
(I have been accused of breaking too many things already.[:D])

[BigDuke66]

Would a bigger size also mean creating a new screen drawing option?
Looks too me like you could almost double the height under my 1920x1200 so a longer combat report would be nice.

If that doesn't work what about the scrolling of the report?
1. Using the wheel is awfully slow, could the speed be changed?
2. Simply clicking further down in the scroll bar to flip thru the report(like you have it in Word for example) doesn't work as he instantly jumps to the point on the bar where you clicked, could it be changed to they way Word does it?

[michaelm75au]

Same issue, engine changes needed to control the scroll-bar and mouse roll lines.
[Mouse wheel only moves the scroll be 30 pixels, which tends to be only one line.]

Page up and down keys should work with the scroll box IIRC

[Marcus_Antonius]

Correct me if I am not understanding how its suppose to work exactly, but with the newest update my long running PBEM game has just gone to August 1942. My Helen factories have failed to ungrade their production to the newer model.

Aren't they suppose to do this automatically? The new model is available on the change menu but I would have to manually convert the factory (tear it down and rebuild) to switch over from the old model.

[michaelm75au]

The factory upgrade kicks in from a month after the new model is available.

[Marcus_Antonius]

Making me wait? That is so wrong...[:)]

Thanks.

[BigDuke66]

ORIGINAL: michaelm
Page up and down keys should work with the scroll box IIRC

*facepalm*
I did even tried those, thanks.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

ORIGINAL: michaelm
Page up and down keys should work with the scroll box IIRC

*facepalm*
I did even tried those, thanks.

So do the arrow keys (I use them all the time).

[hades1001]

Hi Michael don't want to hijack the thread but one thing I got to ask:

Do you feel the current A2A model for later war have some problem?

If you do, do you have any plan to work on it any time soon?

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Just for information before I 'duck and cover'.
I am the one who implemented the code for the air combat based on feedback from Elf.
As part of that, I am the one who pick 200 as the magic number based on a crash course of reading/researching about dogfights. I can't recall (from 2yrs ago) reading lots of instances of 1000 CAP fighters defending against 1000 escort fighters in a single raid from day 1 in the Pacific War.