Fear, hypocracy, and wargames.

[sabre1]

You have a moral duty to stop these predators if the capability lies in your hands. Can anyone here predict what these animals will do if they continue to break into homes. If you don't stop them who will? Who will be injured in the future by these types of predators. You are just in the application of force, because there is a moral right in this world regradless of an unmoral system that says "you shoudln't' do that. I refuse to be a sheep for the slaughter by unjust systems who seek to make you sheep for their own evil purposes, and yes there is evil in this world. Spare me the arguments over human relativism.

[2ndACR]

Bah, everyone knows society forced said "bad guys" to break into homes to survive. It's not their fault. We should just give them carte blanch on your house, they come in back door, you go out front door.[8|]

Glad I live in Texas where said bad guys will be tried by me and sentenced by me upon said entry.

[HintJ]

Thanks for all the advice. My home was indeed broken into, and I think I know *personally* who did it.

An update:

Recently the local police (I live in a smaller town) have arrested someone for attempting to burglarize a local restaurant, and he set off an alarm or something in the late night hours. He was running away and was caught attempting to break into another house! The house he was caught in was a recent victim of a burglary, and I speculate he was previously the guy who burglarized it, and so probably knew where he could hide. The cops say he is a suspect in other recent burglaries.

Maybe it is the same guy that was in my basement; I don't know for sure.

But I know who this guy is. I'm 100% certain he's a drug addict. I hope he gets straight.

Then again, if it was someone else that was in my basement, I'm not going to let my guard down. The first firearm I could get my hands on is (unfortunately) an SKS, but it has this really impressive foot-long icepick bayonet. I think any rifle is a little too long to quickly turn on someone in a close area, but if he comes back, I have a new strategy.

I've set up a *sandbag* spot at the base of my stairway where I can fire a couple of warning shots into w/out damaging anything, I hope. I also want to give any intruder a window of opportunity to escape, and I intend to communicate my desire to any thief. I don't want to shoot or kill anyone, and I hope that he does run away, if not, well, shit, I've got to go back down there.

I don't know. I can make all the plans I want to make myself feel secure, and if this ever happens again it might be totally different. How am I supposed to know what it going to happen next time? Who can? Honestly, I think a handgun is the best route.

Anyway, I've never been burglarized before, and it was very upsetting.

[Titanwarrior89]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

I like it! That is so true.

I need to move to the country so I can let the grass grow high, hang a engine block in the front yard from a chain and put a car up on blocks. Then every criminal will know a gun lives in that house. Called the redneck security system, more effective than a Brinks sign.

A bunch of guns in my case.

[2ndACR]

No warning shots. That is a recipe for disaster. You would be better off arming yourself, and announcing at the top of the stairs you are armed and will shoot. You are talking about a high powered rifle round fired from a couple of feet.

Buy a shotgun with #7 bird shot or get yourself some non lethal rounds. Odds are, all you would have to do is rack the chamber and the burglar will crap his drawers at the sound.

[sabre1]

^ Yep, you have given up a serious advantage once you make yourself known. Let's hope he isn't armed, you just told him where you are. Congratulations, you have now become a target, and if you lose the encounter, put your family at risk. There is no second place in these situations. I personally have a friend who actually killed the perpetrator with his bare hands. He was in very good shape fortunately, and his wife who is DEAF, was unaware of the encounter. Can you imagine the scenario if he had lost.

[2ndACR]

Go with a 12 gauge HintJ, save yourself the lawsuit or personnel injury from a ricochet. The #7 bird shot is damn near perfect for home defense, can and will kill at close range, has a nice spread on it, won't penetrate most home walls too much at decent range (20 feet or so). Buy that and hang a sign inside your back door in glow in the dark paint that says "If you can read this, you are about to be shot".

[Gunhawk]

Whatever you do, learn how to use the weapon. If you buy any semi-automatic shotgun, pistol or rifle LEARN HOW TO CLEAR A JAM!
Pump shotguns can, and do, jam as well, and a jammed weapon is a club! I go to firing ranges in several different states and i'm appalled at how people taking careful aim at 25 feet will miss a man sized target! Under a stress situation they would be a danger to themselves, family and pets. I was at a gun show in Florida and saw a vendor about to sell a semi-auto pistol to a woman who looked to be at least 80 years old. I stood behind her, shook my head "no" to the vendor, and pointed at a revolver. He took the hint and said "maybe you should try this one as you might have trouble pulling back the slide on the semi-auto" and handed her a .38 Taurus.

I'm not trying to lecture anyone here, and there has been very good advice, BUT the advice is for people who know what they're doing. I'd advise anyone that knows how to use a pistol to buy a Govt. 1911 .45, but I know that the recoil and muzzle blast will make many people nervous. I'm still trying teach my neighbor how to use one. He's determined, but the .45 just scares him and he can't shoot well with it. I can tell by where he's hitting the target that he's flinching and trying to hold the barrel down. He hits about 8 inches off at 25 feet! Anybody that's truly proficient will shoot a ragged hole in the bull at that range. His ability just ain't gonna cut it in a combat situation. I'd rather see him stick with a 9mm.

Same goes for a shotgun on full choke. It is *not* a scatter gun. At close range you will make a golf ball sized hole in the target, which means that you *can* miss. It's not a magic alternative to practice. What's more, the recoil from 00 will really knock you back if you aren't ready for it.

[2ndACR]

One more thing, you never stated where you are located. That is very important. You need to check your states laws on home defense and lethal force. If you are in a state that has a castle doctrine, you should be okay, but if in a state that requires you to retreat, your in trouble.

Check those laws.

[HintJ]

You guys have totally missed the point here.

[HintJ]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

One more thing, you never stated where you are located. That is very important. You need to check your states laws on home defense and lethal force. If you are in a state that has a castle doctrine, you should be okay, but if in a state that requires you to retreat, your in trouble.

Check those laws.

The laws are fine here. At least for something like this. I do want do give him a chance to recognize his mistake and leave emty-handed.

Thing is, if I ever have to flush a man out of my property, I'm likely going to kill him, but not because I'm some bad-ass, but that's just how it is. I mean, I will certainly be afraid, but determination easily covers fear, at least from my experiences in general.

[JudgeDredd]

Well, I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread - but I'd like to just add one last thing - if you ask me (and I realise no-one actually did) - if average, ordinary people have to arm themselves through fear of people with lesser morals attacking/invading ones home, then not only has law enforcement has failed, but so has society.

To be clear - I'm for 0 tolerance - but from Law Enforcement. If someone has done something wrong - then screw all but their very basic human and civil rights. I am dead against these calls for "but it's against their human rights"...tough - commit the crime, do the time. But I am NOT for people taking the law into their own hands. And if you have to, then law enforcement has failed.

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Well, I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread - but I'd like to just add one last thing - if you ask me (and I realise no-one actually did) - if average, ordinary people have to arm themselves through fear of people with lesser morals attacking/invading ones home, then not only has law enforcement has failed, but so has society.

To be clear - I'm for 0 tolerance - but from Law Enforcement. If someone has done something wrong - then screw all but their very basic human and civil rights. I am dead against these calls for "but it's against their human rights"...tough - commit the crime, do the time. But I am NOT for people taking the law into their own hands. And if you have to, then law enforcement has failed.

With all due respect, a homeowner is not taking the "law into their own hands". I think any human has the moral duty to protect himself and family, not doing so is a horrible thing to contemplate.

But, I only disagree with you cordially, no contention from me.

[freeboy]

exactly what I was going to say, SELF DEFENCE is not being a vigilante... In the history of the US, for a great deal of time the west really was the wild west... if you where not armed you where some ones prey

[vonRocko]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Well, I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread - but I'd like to just add one last thing - if you ask me (and I realise no-one actually did) - if average, ordinary people have to arm themselves through fear of people with lesser morals attacking/invading ones home, then not only has law enforcement has failed, but so has society.

To be clear - I'm for 0 tolerance - but from Law Enforcement. If someone has done something wrong - then screw all but their very basic human and civil rights. I am dead against these calls for "but it's against their human rights"...tough - commit the crime, do the time. But I am NOT for people taking the law into their own hands. And if you have to, then law enforcement has failed.

That all well and good, but it is after the fact. Long jail terms are fine, but doesn't prevent the crime from happenning. Peventing an assault on you or your property is not taking the law into your own hands, far from it. I can see it now: Me-"please don't stab me, you might have to go to jail." It might work because the criminal will be laughing so hard, you can make your escape!
You are correct about society, it is failing.

[JudgeDredd]

Maybe I need to be a little clearer - when I mentioned "taking the law into your own hands" I was specifically talking about the comment about being judge and juror (tried by me and sentenced by me) - and I just sense an underlying theme through the thread that shoot to kill is an option (and some peoples first option). That's what I was referring to when I said taking the law into your own hands.

And "after the fact"? I 100% agree that no-one should be in your home - but wth are we paying law enforcement for when we have to arm ourselves to be safe?

I vehemently verbally supported a local man's case when he was broken into several times - on the last time he lay in wait for the perpetrators - and shot the scum bags. Now he was actually jailed - which I thought was outrageous. I think he killed one and the little scroat who was injured sued for damages (though I don't actually know if he got any). But I'm still glad I don't live in a culture were weapons are the norm though this is a case where society and law enforcement has let you down (or in this case him specifically)

On a last note (genuinely - no-one will really change their minds here) - wee johnnie was let down. The fact though is that he wasn't let down by you or society - he was let down by his parents. A lack of parental guidance is the issue. Kids aren't born bad - they're made bad. I was born in an estate called Easterhouse in Glasgow (google it)...a very, very rough area where there were regular gang fights between estates. I went to school. I was called names. I was bullied. But I did my homework and I studied and I had times when I had to be home. I eventually got out of Easterhouse by joining the Army. I did 7 years, met my wife and have two beautiful daughters who mI hope I am bringing up right and with good values...but the ONLY reason I was able to escape that muck? My parents. Whilst the whole sorry world looked like it was going down the pan, they kept their focus on their kids.

So yeah - wee johnnie was let down - unfortunately it's just too late for him now and he's a burden - but he wasn't born like it.

To everyone - be safe and you can undo being a victim. [&o]

[SLAAKMAN]

Someone before mentioned a dog as the first line of defense & that is a good recommendation. A German shepherd is a good start. (Unfortunately a medium to large sized dog can be an expense as well as a mess, but they are an effective deterent).

[vonRocko]

Good points JD. Unfortunately I see no solutions to what is a global problem, I only see it getting worse. I guess arming oneself is an attempt to take some control over an out of control situation. I feel helpless.[:(] The criminals are just so bloodthirsty these days, it seems it is not enough to rob you anymore, they have to shoot you too! Does anyone see a bright future for our world? I like to believe that honorable decent people still are the majority, but I think I'm just fooling myself.
Slaakman, I agree, a dog is good, but expensive. I can buy alot of ammo with that dogfood money. Besides, many rental properties prohibit dogs, apartment dwellers might need something else.

[Gunhawk]

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

Someone before mentioned a dog as the first line of defense & that is a good recommendation. A German shepherd is a good start. (Unfortunately a medium to large sized dog can be an expense as well as a mess, but they are an effective deterent).

I don't think that buying or adopting a german Shepherd Dog or any other dog is a good idea unless you really want a dog. A dog should be properly trained or you'll run into a multitude of problems that might end up with the poor dog euthanized or put into a shelter. Training and integrating a dog into your household is a big job. It requires a good deal of patience and love. It's not an easy solution to home protection.

[Gunhawk]

>>You are correct about society, it is failing.<<

It is failing, and failing badly. All over the world.

>>I like to believe that honorable decent people still are the majority, but I think I'm just fooling myself.<<

You're not fooling yourself. We *are* in the majority. The problem is that in our quest to be fair and decent we've become blind to the fact that we can't correct all societal problems by being nice guys. There are very hard issues that require a tough stance and unfortunately our politicians are sometimes dumb as rocks in that regard. And if I were a cynical type I might think that at least one political group is more interested in votes than actually resolving problems.