41-45GC Smokindave (Sov) vs. Zonso (Axis)

[smokindave34]

Southern Front:

Still quiet here. The battle for Odessa is lost but we have tied up 3 German divisions and they are at least 2 turns march from the front.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34
It looks as though that is the intent of 2nd panzer army. I thought about falling back but hate to give up the forts I've built here without a fight.

The classic russian defensive error. We've probably all made it though[:(]

[smokindave34]

It's like turning your back on an old friend - I spent so much time digging those forts I just CANT walk away.....

[sillyflower]

Then you will learn to the hard way

They are not even cardboard counters you are spurning. Just electronic numbers and they won't mind.

[smokindave34]

Hehe - all right, it makes sense, I'll cut my ties and pull back. I can always build new forts!

Hopefully I won't open up turn 9 to see the vast majority of 5th army surrounded near Kiev. If I do then Sillyflower you can tell me "I told you so" [:)]

[Seminole]

You shouldn't have abandoned Novgorod and the swamp behind it.  Even though you can't stop him from taking them, you must make him take them.  Don't give them to the Nazi.

In the south you need more depth to blunt the panzer advance.  A 20 mile thick line of craptastic units will be rudely shoved aside, leaving wide open terrain for the panzers to frolic.

Use the Oster, Uday, and Sula river lines.  The movement penalties for attacking across rivers alone is reason to form your line there instead of echelon behind the Dnepr.  Also, below Lake Ilmen, I would sacrifice at least one unit to 'hug' the panzer schwerpunkt each turn and increase his movement costs (as well as supply costs). The goal this early isn't to stop him, it's to make him pay as many MP per hex as you can for his advance east.  Time is on your side, if you can use his up.  Swamps, forests, and the far side of rivers are all nature's fortifications, and I see a lot of people leave them abandoned to make straight, pretty lines (you're not guilty of this, I just see it a lot). 

I also prefer to fall back successively on the Ingul, Ingulets, and Bazavluk river lines instead of running headlong to the Dnepr.  You can slow him down longer by making him fight across those rivers (especially considering how crappy the Axis Allies are) than by running back to the Dnepr.  Some cavalry can be your diggers in the rear, while you at least screen his advance.  If he has to divert armored/motorized formations from the Cherkassy bridgehead, then you've won something at least.  As it stands one motorized units can claim all that territory in essentially one week.

[vlcz]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

....  Even though you can't stop him from taking them, you must make him take them.  Don't give them to the Nazi.

.. The movement penalties for attacking across rivers alone is reason to form your line there...

... I would sacrifice at least one unit to 'hug' the panzer schwerpunkt each turn and increase his movement costs (as well as supply costs).

The goal this early isn't to stop him, it's to make him pay as many MP per hex as you can for his advance east. 

  Swamps, forests, and the far side of rivers are all nature's fortifications, and I see a lot of people leave them abandoned to make straight, pretty lines

HUGE loads of thruth here! [&o] terrain is the key, not checkerboards.

[smokindave34]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

You shouldn't have abandoned Novgorod and the swamp behind it.  Even though you can't stop him from taking them, you must make him take them.  Don't give them to the Nazi.

In the south you need more depth to blunt the panzer advance.  A 20 mile thick line of craptastic units will be rudely shoved aside, leaving wide open terrain for the panzers to frolic.

Use the Oster, Uday, and Sula river lines.  The movement penalties for attacking across rivers alone is reason to form your line there instead of echelon behind the Dnepr.  Also, below Lake Ilmen, I would sacrifice at least one unit to 'hug' the panzer schwerpunkt each turn and increase his movement costs (as well as supply costs). The goal this early isn't to stop him, it's to make him pay as many MP per hex as you can for his advance east.  Time is on your side, if you can use his up.  Swamps, forests, and the far side of rivers are all nature's fortifications, and I see a lot of people leave them abandoned to make straight, pretty lines (you're not guilty of this, I just see it a lot). 

I also prefer to fall back successively on the Ingul, Ingulets, and Bazavluk river lines instead of running headlong to the Dnepr.  You can slow him down longer by making him fight across those rivers (especially considering how crappy the Axis Allies are) than by running back to the Dnepr.  Some cavalry can be your diggers in the rear, while you at least screen his advance.  If he has to divert armored/motorized formations from the Cherkassy bridgehead, then you've won something at least.  As it stands one motorized units can claim all that territory in essentially one week.

Seminole - thank for the advice!

I considered leaving a unit in Novograd as it would be a good defensive position however I was afraid my line would be too thin closer to Leningrad - probably a mistake in hindsight. I had a unit next to his armor south of Lake Ilmen but decided to move it as I figured he would just use his infantry to push it out of the way and it wouldn't effect his panzers MP's at all....

I plan to fall back to the Oster, Uday, and Sula lines next turn. I'm hoping to hug onto those panzers in the Denpr bridgeheads to slow him down another turn. I'm betting he doesn't have a lot of movement points with those units.

I agree that I gave up ground to easily with my Southern front. I have a lot of units down there that I could have used elsewhere (Leningrad). I did a lot of digging there and will probably end up falling back from those forts without a fight once Zonso expands his bridgehead near Cherkassy. My opponent in my other PBEM is defending the Ingul and Ingulets rivers and he's really tying me up there.

[smokindave34]

STAVKA turn 9 report:

Northern front - Zonso didn't go for the grand right hook with LVI corps but instead opted for a more shallow hook around Novgorod. I'm going to lose about 6 divisions in this smaller pocket but if that is all I'll lose I'm good with it.

I decided to pull back the 33rd army to defend Leningrad itself and move the Northern fronts 23 army and my NW front armies to the east of the Volkhov river. I'm essentially giving up on Leningrad (not without a fight of course) but I can't risk a major encirclement here. I plan on transferring out units of the 33rd army from the port just east of Leningrad (Osinovets) so I don't lose these units entirely.

I may have pulled the trigger on my plans to fall back to the Volkhov too quickly but in the long run Leningrad was going to fall and I wan to keep the Red armies numbers up.

[smokindave34]

Western Front:

See next post - internet crashed while trying to post the screenshot

[smokindave34]

Western Front:

Fairly quiet here. 3rd Panzer keeps pushing east while the Reserve and Western front armies continue to dig. Moscow is in no immediate threat right now but my next set of reinforcements need to start digging a new defensive line west of Moscow.

[smokindave34]

Bryansk front:

2nd Panzer group breaks out and drives southeast. No major encirclements here but the Bryansk front is left shattered. Most of my defensive CV's here are 1. I fell back behind the Desna and Sudost rivers to try and buy time. I'm not sure where 2nd panzer will go next.....I typically head for Tula to try and threaten Moscow from the south but Zonso may just be trying to encirlce more of my units as he told me in his last email that he is concerned he hasn't destroyed enough of the Red army yet.

[smokindave34]

SW front:

No major encirclements here as the 5th, 21st, and 19th armies were able to fall back out of the clutches of 4th panzer group. He is across in force now with all of 4th panzer and a lot of 6th army so only his distance from railheads will slow him down now. He also crossed the river with the 17th army further south so the Southern front will finally see some action.

I have all the factories out of Kharkov so at this time there is no immediate threat to any of my major industrial centers.

[smokindave34]

STAVKA turn 10 report:

Northern front - 33rd army continues to defend Leningrad and pulls back to level 3 forts just outside the city. I'm hoping Zonso needs to divert more forces from AGN to support the final assault on the city. The 23rd army and NW front's 11th and 48th army are behind the Volkhov river keeping the ports open and supplies flowing to Leningrad.

I'm hoping Zonso keeps 4th panzer army pushing north to try and take the port of Sviritsa. Recon will keep close tabs on 4th panzer. If they show up missing I'll expect to see them supporting the assault on Moscow....

South of Novgorod my isolated rifle divisions charge headlong towards the axis rail lines near Pskov.

I considered using some AP's to move units around to try and get ahead of the 21 cap my armies will have now that I upgraded to the new patch. I decided against it as I need my AP's to get my best leaders in key areas. I'll have to make the changes when the cap hits in September.

[smokindave34]

Western Front:

Still fairly quiet here. 3rd panzer keeps pushing east at a fairly slow pace. I shifted some units east to start building forts on the approaches to Moscow. The 4th army has the bulk of the troops here with newly arrived units still on trains in the heart of Moscow. Next turn I get 24 new rifle division and a good portion of them will be put to work digging trenches in front of Moscow (will civilian support of course!).

[smokindave34]

Bryansk front:

2nd panzer group has portions of 10th army in a trap they won't get out of. The rest of 10th army holds the line on the river Desna. I put 3rd and 34th armies in charge of holding 2nd panzer from pushing south. I typically don't stack units 3 deep but I don't have time to dig and this will help.

I continue with my leader changes and put Vasilevsky in charge of 3rd army.

[smokindave34]

SW front:

I've been pretty successful so far in preventing large encirclements but made a mistake here. A large portion of 12th army is surrounded and I should have seen it coming. Zonso' panzers/motorized units are fairly weak but I just didn't have the units/MP's to break out 12th army. A bitter defeat!

I pulled back the 51st army to guard the "slot" between the Psel and Seym rivers. The 12th and 19th armies are on the Psel in pretty good defensive positions. I still think I'm pretty strong in the south and as long as I don't have any major mistakes should be able to fight a controlled retreat.

[smokindave34]

Southern front:

Quiet here as the Rumanians approach at a snails pace. I start digging forts on the approaches to the Crimea.

[smokindave34]

Losses data through turn 10:

[smokindave34]

Red army and Wermacht strength's through turn 10: