This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!
ORIGINAL: btbw
In really, they was useless againt maritime and slightly useful against land targets (area).
When you have ships disbanded in port, they effectively become land targets.
If the ships were at sea, then they would effectively be immune to B17s at 13,000'.
Try it out and see, have some B17s attack a CV in the open ocean at 13,000'.
Grrr. Did you read what i post here or continue give me useless tips?
I talking about wrong targeting formula for port attack by LB. ANd wonderfull results.
Port attack like land bombing - area bombing with hitting all what catched inside of bomb spot. And it cannot be only 3CV+BB. It must be few ships with may be CV.
So your carriers were damaged and burning you disbanded them at port, that fine and reasonable but, all of them ? Next time leave the cripples behind and move the rest into safety.
Also in such a situation remove the planes especially the fighters and place them at the airfield to protect your precious and fly in even more fighters.
These are things you could have done after bringing yourself in this kind of mess. As stated before, using carriers in remote locations is risky and if something goes wrong yer in big podoo.
Your situation only barely has something to do with are 4Es broken or OP or not. You made a mess out of it and need to rethink that whole situation.
Thank you for lesson. But again. I dont worry about these scenario.
I talking about bug in game.
B-17, right now, it long-range, well-protected, well-defended DIVE BOMBER.
In really, they was useless againt maritime and slightly useful against land targets (area).
It all what i want by opening this thread - B-17 as level-bomber.
In my cause AAR must look like 1-2 hits in flattops and 6-7 hits in a hundred other ships and harbour.
It how work real math for area bombers.
LoBaron was 100% correct. You need to quit playing this "buggy" game and find something much easier to play. [8|]
ORIGINAL: btbw
Grrr. Did you read what i post here or continue give me useless tips?
I talking about wrong targeting formula for port attack by LB. ANd wonderfull results.
Port attack like land bombing - area bombing with hitting all what catched inside of bomb spot. And it cannot be only 3CV+BB. It must be few ships with may be CV.
Seemed to work alright on the Tirpitz. *shrug* 27 Lancasters blew the hell out of it, she was basically out of the war as a result.
Edited, 27 not 37, dropping single bombs, at 20,000'.
Well if game so fine for all of us then play in it. Leave me alone in this thread.
I want fix of this bug.
I dont said game buggy even if i found some of it.
But people here prefer fight with me lol.
Good position.
Well if game so fine for all of us then play in it. Leave me alone in this thread.
I want fix of this bug.
I dont said game buggy even if i found some of it.
But people here prefer fight with me lol.
Good position.
I think you will find you are a minority of 1 if you think this result indicates that it's buggy...
Gneisenau & Scharnhorst in Brest...wonder why Germans had to do the "Channel dash"... It is NOT advisable to leave capital ships into ports where enemy can concentrate heavy bomber attacks.
"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-
Gneisenau & Scharnhorst in Brest...wonder why Germans had to do the "Channel dash"... It is NOT advisable to leave capital ships into ports where enemy can concentrate heavy bomber attacks.
Interesting fact. Mmmm.... only part of it. Another part it amount of planes tried hurt nazis per one hit)))
Something deep inside me whisper to me it not 4 planes per hit [:'(]
Gneisenau & Scharnhorst in Brest...wonder why Germans had to do the "Channel dash"... It is NOT advisable to leave capital ships into ports where enemy can concentrate heavy bomber attacks.
Interesting fact. Mmmm.... only part of it. Another part it amount of planes tried hurt nazis per one hit)))
Something deep inside me whisper to me it not 4 planes per hit [:'(]
They were dropping single Tallboy bombs from 20,000'+, not 4 x 500lb from 13,000'.
27 Lancasters, 20,000', 1 hit.
39 Fortresses, 20,000', dropping 4x 500lbers...
39/27 * 4 = 5.77 hits?
Then add a few more as they were not high altitude bombing. And probably a few more again as they were aiming at a bunch of ships not just 1 ship.
Gneisenau & Scharnhorst in Brest...wonder why Germans had to do the "Channel dash"... It is NOT advisable to leave capital ships into ports where enemy can concentrate heavy bomber attacks.
Interesting fact. Mmmm.... only part of it. Another part it amount of planes tried hurt nazis per one hit)))
Something deep inside me whisper to me it not 4 planes per hit [:'(]
They were dropping single Tallboy bombs from 20,000'+, not 4 x 500lb from 13,000'.
27 Lancasters, 20,000', 1 hit.
39 Fortresses, 20,000', dropping 4x 500lbers...
39/27 * 4 = 5.77 hits?
Then add a few more as they were not high altitude bombing. And probably a few more again as they were aiming at a bunch of ships not just 1 ship.
Doesn't look beyond the bounds of reality to me.
1. It was not one try.
2. Best squadrons did it.
3. Only first bomb going to aiming point.
So 27 Lancaster do good job against point target with only ONE hit. And it was best pilots with year spent on operation. Accuracy 4% some higher then 1% but can be compared with regular bombing.
What accuracy i got? 6% (24% by game rule? crazy amount). Regular pilots. And all in flattops. I understand if japanese gather all CVs and BB in one iron island which hitted by some bombs. But... It port. Not single anchor point of one nazi monster.
Probably, you also didnt have much heavy AAA present. Even 60+ of them usually wont outright kill any of the 4Es but it tends to throw off their aim somewhat and any ones damaged before they release bombs are likely to miss all bombs(my experience with port and naval strikes).
While I agree the 4Es are incredibly annoying in how they can score 1:1 vs. elite Zero(or you name it, a Jap fighter), the fighter numbers reported in the combat report are still misguiding: the number reported is NOT the number that managed to engage the bombers before they did their bomb run. As with AAA, a hit bomber is considerably more likely to hit nothing than an intact bomber, and has much higher chance to crash at landing or on its way home or at least not be able to fly the next day.
In the future if you ever again have to disband CVs, move for the very least your fighters away to protect the disbanded CVs from a land base. Ideally you'd also have 2+ radars, lots of heavy flak, lots of fighters of different types layered to at least 2 different altitudes and more ships than just tha CVs disbanded to draw some of the bombs away from the ships you're trying to protect. As you know from PH attacks, majority of attacks will go against the high value targets but some will also target CAs, CLs, DDs, probably depends on ship type(military/civil) so all warships and(big enough) xAKs work too. Losing a couple of xAKs is nothing if it means even 1 hit bomb less on your CVs. A more riskier plan would be to make the damaged CVs your only disbanded ships: if you have less than 10 ships in the port, good part of the attacks will target the port facilities, city and even troops.
23% of the B-17s scored a hit, and out of the dropped bombs 6% hit. Not beyond realistic results IMHO. What makes 4Es so deadly is their ability to survive AAA and CAP. The way to kill them is to manage to put at least double the number of fighters against them(ie. you need 3-4 times the fighters in units), radar for detection, AAA to score more hits, and the further the bombers fly the higher fatigue they have over target(less effective gunners) and the more of the damaged bombers will not survive home or will crash/become writeoffs.
During 1941-1942 Allies have only about 380 or so 4Es available, AFAIK some in permanently restricted units on the West Coast. Many of them are B-17Ds that come down about twice as easy as the others. If you kill 1 per every 2 or 3 days it means you will be winning the attrition or at least the bomber numbers aren't increasing.
I think you have clung onto one of the biggest myths of the Pacific Theater: 4E bombers rarely hit shipping. I think this myth is largely based on the results from the B-17 attacks on the Japanese CVTF at Midway. Yes, it was very difficult to hit a combat ship from altitude when it was using aggressive evasive maneuvering. However, the USAAF regular hit Japanese shipping with B-17s and later B-24s. Many if not most of the hits were on ships at anchor from medium altitudes. That said, one major battle, Bismark Sea, showed that they could hit even maneuvering targets. The point being that non-moving ships were sitting ducks evenfor level bombers.
I suggest you look at this link. Just read the entries for the first two months of the war and you will see that B-17s and a few LB-30s were hitting Japanese shipping on a regular basis even in early months of the war when their numbers were much smaller than what you encountered.
ORIGINAL: btbw
In really, they was useless againt maritime and slightly useful against land targets (area).
When you have ships disbanded in port, they effectively become land targets.
If the ships were at sea, then they would effectively be immune to B17s at 13,000'.
Try it out and see, have some B17s attack a CV in the open ocean at 13,000'.
Grrr. Did you read what i post here or continue give me useless tips?
I talking about wrong targeting formula for port attack by LB. ANd wonderfull results.
Port attack like land bombing - area bombing with hitting all what catched inside of bomb spot. And it cannot be only 3CV+BB. It must be few ships with may be CV.
Sir -
You do seem to have your undies in a wad.
Please seriously consider LoBaron's recommendation and find another game to play.
Probably, you also didnt have much heavy AAA present. Even 60+ of them usually wont outright kill any of the 4Es but it tends to throw off their aim somewhat and any ones damaged before they release bombs are likely to miss all bombs(my experience with port and naval strikes).
While I agree the 4Es are incredibly annoying in how they can score 1:1 vs. elite Zero(or you name it, a Jap fighter), the fighter numbers reported in the combat report are still misguiding: the number reported is NOT the number that managed to engage the bombers before they did their bomb run. As with AAA, a hit bomber is considerably more likely to hit nothing than an intact bomber, and has much higher chance to crash at landing or on its way home or at least not be able to fly the next day.
In the future if you ever again have to disband CVs, move for the very least your fighters away to protect the disbanded CVs from a land base. Ideally you'd also have 2+ radars, lots of heavy flak, lots of fighters of different types layered to at least 2 different altitudes and more ships than just tha CVs disbanded to draw some of the bombs away from the ships you're trying to protect. As you know from PH attacks, majority of attacks will go against the high value targets but some will also target CAs, CLs, DDs, probably depends on ship type(military/civil) so all warships and(big enough) xAKs work too. Losing a couple of xAKs is nothing if it means even 1 hit bomb less on your CVs. A more riskier plan would be to make the damaged CVs your only disbanded ships: if you have less than 10 ships in the port, good part of the attacks will target the port facilities, city and even troops.
23% of the B-17s scored a hit, and out of the dropped bombs 6% hit. Not beyond realistic results IMHO. What makes 4Es so deadly is their ability to survive AAA and CAP. The way to kill them is to manage to put at least double the number of fighters against them(ie. you need 3-4 times the fighters in units), radar for detection, AAA to score more hits, and the further the bombers fly the higher fatigue they have over target(less effective gunners) and the more of the damaged bombers will not survive home or will crash/become writeoffs.
During 1941-1942 Allies have only about 380 or so 4Es available, AFAIK some in permanently restricted units on the West Coast. Many of them are B-17Ds that come down about twice as easy as the others. If you kill 1 per every 2 or 3 days it means you will be winning the attrition or at least the bomber numbers aren't increasing.
Erkki -
A very informative response; I shall take your advice to heart.
"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-
Game is nice but still what wrong with selectivity of LB?
Can you share how raid of LB can dive on 4 targets at once?
So much talkative about bombers but nothing about game mechanics.
Alot words sorry. My question dont touch how fight with LB.
My question why LB work like DB.
If you see AAR then easy can find similar order of attack like divers.
11 waves = 11 hits
