B-17 supremacy

[btbw]

So WITP AE still have same stupid level bomb system like WITP?

[pompack]

[8|]

no

[bk19@mweb.co.za]

ORIGINAL: pompack

[8|]

no

A bit brief that.....

You could have used, non, nein, nyet, not bloody likely.... Heck, there wasn't even any punctuation!

On the other hand this may also have been an appropriate response to such an allegation.

[btbw]

My experience said YES.
Here example how wonderful B-17 and how devastate them which never happen in really.

Morning Air attack on Noumea , at 115,160
 
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
 
Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2 Zero x 31
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      B-17D Fortress x 1
      B-17E Fortress x 38
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
      B-17D Fortress: 1 damaged
      B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged
 
Japanese Ships
      CV Soryu, Bomb hits 5,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      BB Kirishima, Bomb hits 1
      CV Kaga, Bomb hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
      CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1
 
Japanese ground losses:
      5 casualties reported
         Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
         Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
 
 
 
Port hits 2
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       2 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       2 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       5 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       5 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       2 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       1 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       2 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
       2 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 13000 feet *
               Port Attack:  4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
 
CAP engaged:
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 6 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      1 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
 
Kasai S. in a A6M2 Zero makes head on attack ... forces B-17E Fortress out of formation
Ammo storage explosion on CV Soryu

[Grfin Zeppelin]

Well ships at anchor are very vulnerable. A couple of Hudsons could have accomplished a similar result. Especially against such a minicap. (with some luck I admit)

[LoBaron]

Ouch.

Disbanding carriers in port within heavy bomber range at a base without or bad radar?

Big boo.

[Chickenboy]

Did you actually have your carriers disbanded in port within B17 range of your enemy? Also, you are aware of diminished CAP efficacy by fleet CVs in a port hex, aren't you?

There's probably a host of other issues that need to be looked at. Your post doesn't provide sufficient information for any meaningful advice.

ETA: I love it. 3 posts within 2 minutes on the topic. [:D]

[LoBaron]

Saturday. [:D]

[bk19@mweb.co.za]

Hmmm... how difficult do you believe it would be for an experience bomb aimer (and pilot) to hit a stable ship at anchor from 15,000 feet? Given that an aircraft carrier is probably the size of a small football field, and not moving... I would submit it is way easier to do than if the same target was underway.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: btbw

My experience said YES.
Here example how wonderful B-17 and how devastate them which never happen in really.

You are absolutely correct. The IJN never would disband carriers into a port within 4E range and insufficient CAP. Never happened in reality.
[;)]
EDIT: So yes, WitPAE is exactly the same as WitP in this area. Players can make any mistake they want and the game will "faithfully" reward them. [:D]

[Grfin Zeppelin]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: btbw

My experience said YES.
Here example how wonderful B-17 and how devastate them which never happen in really.

You are absolutely correct. The IJN never would disband carriers into a port within 4E range and insufficient CAP. Never happened in reality.
[:D]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Well ships at anchor are very vulnerable. A couple of Hudsons could have accomplished a similar result. Especially against such a minicap. (with some luck I admit)

Totally wrong, GZ. [:-]

Two Hudsons wouldn't carry 9 bombs between 'em. [;)]

[Grfin Zeppelin]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Well ships at anchor are very vulnerable. A couple of Hudsons could have accomplished a similar result. Especially against such a minicap. (with some luck I admit)

Totally wrong, GZ. [:-]

Two Hudsons wouldn't carry 9 bombs between 'em. [;)]

Grrrrrrr

[btbw]

Some digits.
Area of Noumea port around 5 square km.
Accuracy of B-17 on Pacific theater around 30% in 1000 feet round from aiming point.
Only first bomb going to targetted area, all other laying in string with delay=huge distance between.
What we see in report?
Despite on hard damage from aces on Zeros, all B-17 sections scoring a hit. And it with limitation on 1 bomb hit per plane ( see "Only first bomb going to targetted area, all other laying in string with delay=huge distance between.").
Bombers make 10 hits ( 8 to ships and 2 to port buildings with 5 casualties in it).
Simple math give to us effectivness  of that B-17s.
ONE B-17 BOMBER CAN GUARANTIED SHOT ANYTHING IN AREA OF 350x350 meters.
WHOA!

[btbw]

Carrier battle was before so cap cutted and CV need emergency repair.

[btbw]

I dont ask about where disband carriers.
I ask about who make Loser Bomber same effective as Dive Bomber?
How i understand not many people here know about bombing.

[btbw]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: btbw

My experience said YES.
Here example how wonderful B-17 and how devastate them which never happen in really.

You are absolutely correct. The IJN never would disband carriers into a port within 4E range and insufficient CAP. Never happened in reality.
[;)]
EDIT: So yes, WitPAE is exactly the same as WitP in this area. Players can make any mistake they want and the game will "faithfully" reward them. [:D]

Very sarcastic but after carrier battle near Brisbane can you show me way how save 2 carriers from major fire and floating?
Mr. Genius

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: btbw
after carrier battle near Brisbane can you show me way how save 2 carriers from major fire and floating?

According to your experience probably not by disbanding them in range of a potential retaliation strike?

btbw, my advice would be to calm down, reassess the situation, accept you made a big mistake by getting
your CVs damaged far from safety in the first place, and then by disbanding them in port in the face of enemy
heavy bombers, and then wise up and move on.

From what I see 37 B17s whacked some nice big static targets. Don´t confuse naval attack routine with a port strike.

You wont get much sympathy by blaming the game for your own errors.

[btbw]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

ORIGINAL: btbw
after carrier battle near Brisbane can you show me way how save 2 carriers from major fire and floating?

According to your experience probably not by disbanding them in range of a potential retaliation strike?

btbw, my advice would be to calm down, reassess the situation, accept you made a big mistake by getting
your CVs damaged far from safety in the first place, and then by disbanding them in port in the face of enemy
heavy bombers, and then wise up and move on.

From what I see 37 B17s whacked some nice big static targets. Don´t confuse naval attack routine with a port strike.

You wont get much sympathy by blaming the game for your own errors.

Why you talking about me? Can you reveal how B-17 can have same bomb accuracy like Helldiver? Umm?
No?
Touche.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: btbw

Very sarcastic but after carrier battle near Brisbane can you show me way how save 2 carriers from major fire and floating?
Mr. Genius

Sorry, but you seem to be under the false impression that there is a solution to every problem. IRL, there are problems for which there is no solution.

If you had damaged carriers from action that deep into allied territory, then the expectation is that they are indeed lost. That is why those raids were rarely done. There is, in fact, huge risk in doing them. You wish to do actions which IRL were highly risky and then to have an unrealistic outcome and blame the game. I don't claim to be Mr. Genius, but I am smart enough to understand the risks inherent with your type of op and avoid them. [;)]

Continue to blame the game for your actions and there is a name for that.