Eastern Battles

[battlevonwar]

Alright finally I have done a run up of the War in the East for our game Time of Fury... This is an idea on how it is with standard settings vs a true opponent.

My Strategy was for The USSR:

A. Get Experience for my Armor/Commanders on Minors

B. Not a forward deployment of Troops as was historical and cost Millions

C. Mount a Counter Offensive at some point

D. Keep Research up

To Sum it up:

Even with over a Million troops deployed to slow the Germans, they were not even a speed bump. We began in 1939 and he has enough units to mow me down like I was grass. I can inquire to FreeBoy, but I doubt he lost 20k in troops to my Million.


It's possible to gain experience for your Armor on Minors. Problem is how quickly the German Panzer Units advance makes any defense impossible. Let alone a counterattack. You cannot use Armor effectively by this point as you do not have enough SMP, let alone PPs to reinforce your Tanks or maneuver them in place against the Germans..(cost cost) Even if you could, Rails are getting cut off and they are still useless on their own soil. While they may have 170% effectiveness in Iran or Finland. They have virtually nadda on Soviet Soil.

As for Research...Impossible. You're barely keeping up in PPs, I think I'm closer to 100-150 PPs per turn. Historically even the Russians still had plenty of Industry in The East(tanks rolling off the factory line to the Front at Stalingrad and during)...Here a Far Eastern Defense is not practical...

Suggested Fixes after screen shots.

[battlevonwar]

[battlevonwar]

[battlevonwar]

[battlevonwar]

[battlevonwar]

[battlevonwar]

[battlevonwar]

At some point The Russians have to be ready for war. There is no way to win or defend without it. I guarantee any of you ... as I have played this opponent twice now there is no defense of Mother Russia right now vs Panzer Divisions or Corps. Forward deployment, rear deployment. Doesn't matter... Plus I am no pushover... Look at the tank losses. The Tactical Air of the USSR at level 1 Aircraft has destroyed more Germans than the Red Army... This is not Historical this is leading a Lamb to the Slaughter. We have played Fall Gelb and Barbarossa aside, similar results. Given the Germans from 1939 it is as if they're unstoppable.

[freeboy]

yep, He is a good oponent.. There is no defense againt upk.. let alone in the quantities I fielded.
( upk=uber panze korps)
 

[gwgardner]

I don't consider myself a pushover either. Take a look at my AAR in the Slitherine forum. The Soviet AI did a job on me.

There are so many different ways to play each side. The AI, when I played, built almost exclusively infantry corps, and gave up territory like crazy until it could start deploying those corps. At that point I had my armor overextended and those massed corps were able to stop me about the time the mud season hit. I on the other hand, spent too much on research, didn't build many corps. My divisions against the AIs corps? No go.

My point is, your experience and reports are great, and I hope Wastelands takes them into account in trying to resolve the issue of super panzers, especially, but I don't think the game is hopelessly unbalanced re Barbarossa.

[battlevonwar]

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I don't consider myself a pushover either. Take a look at my AAR in the Slitherine forum. The Soviet AI did a job on me.

There are so many different ways to play each side. The AI, when I played, built almost exclusively infantry corps, and gave up territory like crazy until it could start deploying those corps. At that point I had my armor overextended and those massed corps were able to stop me about the time the mud season hit. I on the other hand, spent too much on research, didn't build many corps. My divisions against the AIs corps? No go.

My point is, your experience and reports are great, and I hope Wastelands takes them into account in trying to resolve the issue of super panzers, especially, but I don't think the game is hopelessly unbalanced re Barbarossa.

I beg to differ. So much so that I will give you the Reds to play, I will take the Germans... I dare you to employ such a strategy... ( I will also go a level up in difficulty )

FreeBoy attempted a similar strategy against me as you state The Soviet AI used. If you would like to see the screenshots, They're worse than this... All my UPKs are 90+... Here at least, I have managed to fight back... Between France/USSR I may have killed 7 or 8 divisions... He managed to kill 2-3 vs me.

When this game is over I may manage to kill a dozen German Divisions. I am pleased at the outcome!

[FieldOfGlory]

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I don't consider myself a pushover either. Take a look at my AAR in the Slitherine forum. The Soviet AI did a job on me.

There are so many different ways to play each side. The AI, when I played, built almost exclusively infantry corps, and gave up territory like crazy until it could start deploying those corps. At that point I had my armor overextended and those massed corps were able to stop me about the time the mud season hit. I on the other hand, spent too much on research, didn't build many corps. My divisions against the AIs corps? No go.

My point is, your experience and reports are great, and I hope Wastelands takes them into account in trying to resolve the issue of super panzers, especially, but I don't think the game is hopelessly unbalanced re Barbarossa.

I was checking out the barbarossa AAR on slitherine and the thing I noticed right away was number Of UPK's and armor divisions your starting with is only a fraction of what Freeboy says he was going in with.

In your AAR I count 9 Armor Corps and and 5 Armor divisions. Didn't bother to count the infantry so i"m not sure if freeboy had more of those too but he definatly had a lot more Armor going in to Barbarossa.

Perhaps putting Germany on hard level in the long campaign would keep them from building so many Armored corps and divisions up before Barbarossa. They would suffer the 25% loss of PP. IMHO

[FieldOfGlory]

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I don't consider myself a pushover either. Take a look at my AAR in the Slitherine forum. The Soviet AI did a job on me.

There are so many different ways to play each side. The AI, when I played, built almost exclusively infantry corps, and gave up territory like crazy until it could start deploying those corps. At that point I had my armor overextended and those massed corps were able to stop me about the time the mud season hit. I on the other hand, spent too much on research, didn't build many corps. My divisions against the AIs corps? No go.

My point is, your experience and reports are great, and I hope Wastelands takes them into account in trying to resolve the issue of super panzers, especially, but I don't think the game is hopelessly unbalanced re Barbarossa.

I beg to differ. So much so that I will give you the Reds to play, I will take the Germans... I dare you to employ such a strategy... ( I will also go a level up in difficulty )

FreeBoy attempted a similar strategy against me as you state The Soviet AI used. If you would like to see the screenshots, They're worse than this... All my UPKs are 90+... Here at least, I have managed to fight back... Between France/USSR I may have killed 7 or 8 divisions... He managed to kill 2-3 vs me.

When this game is over I may manage to kill a dozen German Divisions. I am pleased at the outcome!

How well do you think you could have faired against only 9 UPK's and and 5 Armor divisions?

That's what a 3rd of the amount of Armor than freeboy is coming at you with now. I think it is too much PP for Germany. He should never have been able to build that much Armor.

[freeboy]

I think his attack, unless mistaken, was played at HARD vs ai USSR on normal? no? We are on normal normal... so that is probably the differense

[FieldOfGlory]

No levels are all normal. But he is playing the Barbarossa scenario so that is what he is starting with preset by the scenario.

I would say that if a player was playing the long scenario and starting in '39 instead of june '41 in Barbarossa scenario the player should be able to build a larger land force than the barbarossa scenario, but at the cost of something else... Like PP's spent on air assets and research. The fact that you were able to build up that much without major sacrifices tells me too much PP. Even with major sacrifices you should not have been able to build that huge beast that you did.

Just an observasion. IMHO

[FieldOfGlory]

Freeboy had way more motorized infantry as well. Way, way, more. I'm sure most of it was upgraded infantry that freeboy already had but it still cost PP to do all that upgrading.

[battlevonwar]

I am not against the building more units. Because you're a better accountant than History doesn't mean you should be punished. Also if you attack and horde more Booty, than you're going to have more ships.. That's not the issue at all. England cannot defend the Home Island and The USSR is in any way vs any REAL opponent going to anything but surrender. Here is a few more pictures for your guys Wall

I AM SO CONFIDANT in this fact. I am willing to play any Human opponent me Hardest Axis, them Normal USSR and I will win

[battlevonwar]

From Fall Gelb, PBEM game

[battlevonwar]

A Dozen Panzer Korps and a Dozen Panzer Divisions. Half of what is needed. It's not that the Panzer Korp is that Uber, it's that the Allies doesn't have their own WMD

[FieldOfGlory]

Just a quick note.

Barbarossa scenario Germany starts with in June '41:
4 mechinized div (no corps)
6 Armor Div
11 Armor corps.
Not all of these units start on USSR border

Freeboy had in '41 (not even june yet)
40 combined armored and mechinized division
Not sure if he had any Mech corps. (doesn't state in AAR)
16 to 17 Armored corps.
These are all starting on USSR border.

This has to be like night and day if you are USSR facing these 2 forces at your border.
Thats a pretty big diference.