Has the locked up bug been fixed, really? I mean the one where units just paused for a long while, doing nothing.
I've ran, abortively (for this very reason) From the Meuse to the Rhine 4 times now and each time I'm frustrated because the brit para units I task with taking the arnhem bridges just sieze up somewhere around osterbeck. They're not fighting. They're not, as far as I can see, doing anything. The indicators say they're moving AND dug in. I've no idea why they might be dug in when I've really flagged up the urgency of taking this bridge whatever the consequences. If they were hit by arty and I didn't notice, do the consequences really last so long? Without a rout or even a retreat? In the snap below 2 para are the worst. JOhn Frost would shudder. They've just stopped. They've been stopped like that for about three hours now. Is this a bug?
I just checked my saves and 2 para, for example, stopped moving at around 16.22. It's 19.00 in the above pic. There was no graphic (or message) to indicate arty. It seems repeatable, from the save. They just halt. I can send a save to anyone interested, if you let me know where to send it to.
Thanks Nate. All my orders are at Bn level, unless I detatch companies for something specific for a while. In this case, 2 Para Bn has the order. I never give orders higher than this as, for me at least, this just means the Regiment spends ages processing the orders and nothing gets done for too long. At least this way 2 Para started on the mission. Then just stopped. In this forum, and from Panther people, the recommendation has always been, I think, to give orders at roughly Bn level.
i'll try that though. I'll try reattaching 2 para to brigade and giving brigade the order. My guess is there will be a lot of replanning followed by long orders delays, then long re-orgs.....
Anyway, they shouldn't be just stuck there. Or if they are, I should know why?
Does anyone (Dave?) want a save from around 1600. You can run it through from there on full speed and watch 2 para doing nothing for a few hours (at least that's what happens every time I run the save).
Has the locked up bug been fixed, really? I mean the one where units just paused for a long while, doing nothing.
I've ran, abortively (for this very reason) From the Meuse to the Rhine 4 times now and each time I'm frustrated because the brit para units I task with taking the arnhem bridges just sieze up somewhere around osterbeck. They're not fighting. They're not, as far as I can see, doing anything. The indicators say they're moving AND dug in. I've no idea why they might be dug in when I've really flagged up the urgency of taking this bridge whatever the consequences. If they were hit by arty and I didn't notice, do the consequences really last so long? Without a rout or even a retreat? In the snap below 2 para are the worst. JOhn Frost would shudder. They've just stopped. They've been stopped like that for about three hours now. Is this a bug?
Quick evaluation of what I see in the screeny:
The 2nd para Bn route appears close enough to the german 9/KRA zone of influence, that movement along this route is blocked or greatly hindered. With given "defend" task at (on top) Arnhem bridge it might also be problematic for the AI to solve a final deployment zone for all Bn components, as it might end up in a north- and south of rhine river part. An intermediate waypoint added at the crossing of the N-S railroad with the W-E road also might have helped to plot a route closer to the rhine river and away from german 9/KRA.
I havent´t found time to try this scenario yet, but I´d likely try a move with attacks ticked, to just north of the Arnhem bridge. Maybe not even attacks ticked, but with low aggro, fast speed and a suitable pathing option (avoidance?). Route should stick as close to the rhine river as possible.
What maybe better than posting on here when it's something like this is just send the save with an explanation to Dave. Thing is only Dave can give an opinion or fix the issue (sending it to Dave is helping everyone especially if it's a bug) so posting here it may get lost or overlooked by the one person who can help.
Or post in the Tech part of the forum.
Just a thought and I don't want to sound like a pain in the backside. It's just important Dave gets to see it, everyone else seeing it doesn't matter either way.
Thanks Dave. I'm sure it's me and something I'm doing, of course....
Interesting, Harry, that you think the AI might have got confused between north and south of river choices. You can see its planned route, however, which lies along the north. I wouldn't think 9/KRA should hold it up for that long. Worst option might be long enough to plan a reroute south of the threat. I had avoidance on, I think.
Mmm, just started with an earlier save and analysed it a bit more. Maybe I won't send through yet, Dave.
This is what happened, I think (assuming it roughly happened this way on original run-through).
1. 2 Para, with the 3 indep para companies attached, is given a route with waypoints nth of the river and told to sieze Arnhem road bridge, everything max, fastest, quickest, no rest, attacks and bypass clicked. Around 2pm it starts off and makes good progress to where it is stalled in the above pic.
2. It stalls, as RH surmised, because the lead element - 2.21 IPC - runs into 9/KRA. 2.21 and the C.2 para then get hit by arty (the lead elements). This is about 3pm. No doubt it doesn't help that I've got 'attacks' checked and aggro set to max.....
3. Everything stops for about 45 minutes. I get twitchy waiting for 2 para to re-route (doesn't 'bypass' achieve that? - not with attacks and full aggro, maybe.....) and so change its orders. I click 'avoidance' and uncheck 'attacks' (I'm trying to get it to re-route and go round 9/KRA). Nothing happens within another 45 mins or so, so I issue the sieze bridge order all over again, with avoidance and bypass, norm aggro. I don't give a route. I'm just shouting at Frost, really. This is at about 4.30.
4. The result? Frost is still stuck there at 7pm.
So it's a bit confused - multiple impatient responses from me. However, there is a good two and a half hours between my last order and the pic above, with nothing happening. That said, I haven't specified a route, and have changed quite a few parametres, so maybe the AI is doing all its planning again. A RL subordinate wouldn't, I assume, do this (don't know - maybe they would?), but maybe RH was right that I've managed to confuse the AI. How long should the delay be, I wonder, in thse circs?
So I'll try it all again and try to keep my temper before sending anything through for Dave to pour over.
Well, like I said, GBS, I decided not to send the saves through, because I did so many confusing things prior to the lock up that it's possible all that is happening is 2 Para is reacting to too many orders etc. I don't know. But I'm playing the scenario again, and if it happens again I will action it.
I have to use the little bit of arty we get almost constantly to try and dislodge stubborn units. The two batteries of 75s, company mortars, all of it.
You've probably already done this, just thought I'd mention it.
Well, here we go again. This time I will send you 2 saves, Dave, because I just need to know what is going on.
2 para again. This run they got through a bit further, right up to the dreaded bottleneck. In reality, historically, they held the north end of the bridge by dusk. I'm sending them roughly the same route as they used historically, all along the Rhine, this time with aggro low, and bypass only checked. At the bottleneck they lost an entire company (that's the little cross there in the pic). They went into siezure mode, no probs with that, and retreated. So I decided they wouldn't get through the bottleneck and since I've got the rail bridge I thought I'd send them round that way. So I order them to pull back to the rail bridge and across it. You can see from the log that they got these orders at 21.46pm. In the pic it's now half after midnight. They haven't pulled back yet. But the log shows they were bombarded a bit etc. Fair enough?
Move on a bit and see how good they are at following orders;
It's now 4.35 in the morning.....
They've done nothing. Well, virtually nothing. They've had the order for over 6 hours and there they are still up there. As far as I can see the only thing that happened was one bombardment a while back. What's going on?
I have a question - why are you dragging along those AT guns with the assault companies? I would leave them and possibly even the mortars back in your security area until you need them.
You are ordering your battalion to maneuver into unknown enemy territory and secure a distant objective. This is a job for your assault companies not bulky AT guns and mortars.
Mmm. Thanks Richard. My question is - why is your AI dragging them along? I give the orders to the battallion. It brings them along. There's not an option for it to go light, but I don't like micromanaging it too much to force things. Nice to have them along when we get there, of course - if we ever get there. The Bn ought to be able to manage to make sure they're well in the rear for the advance, out of harm's way, now that they no longer lead the assaults..... If I don't bring them now then they'll never get through in the future, because the window for getting through to the bridge is closing all the time.
But anyway, even if that would help - what is 2 Para doing for all that time? Why is it halting when nothing at all (apparently) is going on? Are you suggesting it's halting because of the AT gun unit?
