own HQ Displacement

[Flaviusx]

If this ever gets put into the game, I hope it's optional. I would hate the popups and almost never displace my own HQs.

[Rasputitsa]

ORIGINAL: chuckles
Does anyone want to actually comment on the change I suggested?

It's a reasonable request that has been repeated ever since the game first came out, playing should not be an obstacle course, it's the opponent we want to fight, not the GUI, in this century it should be a simple fix.[:)]

[gradenko2k]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
If this ever gets put into the game, I hope it's optional. I would hate the popups and almost never displace my own HQs.

Huh? Even if it wasn't optional, if you never displace your HQs anyway, you'd never see the pop-up anyway, so how would it matter?

[chuckfourth]

Thanks for commenting Flaviusx, Rasputitsa and gradenko_2000

But you all miss the point entirely.
As I think did all the prevoius posters.

I am -not- suggesting a popup.

I am suggesting that when the "~" key is on and a HQ is in the selected stack, then a HQ to HQ link is -red-, rather than the same colur as the CU to HQ link, orange.

This is probably programatically and logically very simple to implement and would be a good way to flag the condition 'HQ unit in selected stack, own HQ displacement imminent' when your focused on the map.

Flashing red would probably be even better, but I think you'd soon start to remember the meaning of the red link anyway.

I would also suggest that anyone who doesnt like own HQ displacements read and comment.

[gradenko2k]

I think that there should be sufficient warning to the player when he's about to commit HQ displacement on his own units, on his own turn. However that is achieved I think is really up to the devs, although your idea is as good as any.

[Rasputitsa]

ORIGINAL: chuckles
Thanks for commenting Flaviusx, Rasputitsa and gradenko_2000

But you all miss the point entirely.
As I think did all the prevoius posters.

I am -not- suggesting a popup.

I am suggesting that when the "~" key is on and a HQ is in the selected stack, then a HQ to HQ link is -red-, rather than the same colur as the CU to HQ link, orange.

This is probably programatically and logically very simple to implement and would be a good way to flag the condition 'HQ unit in selected stack, own HQ displacement imminent' when your focused on the map.

Flashing red would probably be even better, but I think you'd soon start to remember the meaning of the red link anyway.

I would also suggest that anyone who doesnt like own HQ displacements read and comment.

I don't care how it's done, as long as there is a warning. Pop-ups would work even if your HQ link is not selected, it could be self cancelling in 2 - 3 seconds and would not need any player input and no problem for those who don't make such a mistake, as they would never see it.[:)]

[LiquidSky]

Alas, it wouldnt prevent the way the computer likes to retreat the Russian forward towards my lone HQ (and in a zoc) instead of back towards their supply...thereby displacing my HQ.

[csarebel]

I want some change. It isn't realistic. It is a design issue as much as anything. Just as you can surround an enemy unit in one turn then attack it, it will route out of the pocket because the turn is considered to happen simultaniously (spelling sucks). The units shouldn't displace until the end of the turn and there should be a pop up.

[Farfarer61]

Hard code the inability to accidentally rout HQs, or have it doen in an end trun segment if they aren't stacked with a comabt unit in a ZOC. I have deliberately relocated HQs taking the risks of leader death etc, rather than letting enmeny do it asI gain a turn of recoevery and can guide the relcation by stacking 2 units on unwatnted relocation towns. face it , upu NEVER want to accidentally relocate an HQ when you can do it volunarily for fre.

[Rasputitsa]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky
Alas, it wouldnt prevent the way the computer likes to retreat the Russian forward towards my lone HQ (and in a zoc) instead of back towards their supply...thereby displacing my HQ.

It is not unreasonable that an undefended HQ should have to run (be displaced) from hoards of enemy troops, which might be escaping 'any which way' in the confusion of battle. Which means that it is a good policy to stack your HQs with other units for protection.

Having done that, the warning is needed before inadvertently moving the protecting unit away and leaving your HQ vulnerable. In real life if an HQ saw it's protecting units ordered to move, there would be howls of protest and the HQ would be packing up to move with them.

A simple self cancelling pop-up warning, timed to show for a few seconds only, is not much to ask for.

You will only ever see the pop-up if you are about to make a mistake, otherwise you will never see it.[:)]

[AFV]

Except for Flaviusx, even though he would never make that mistake, he would still see the popup.

[Flaviusx]

I've made the mistake a few times. Not in ages, though.

I think this issue tends to occur more for the Axis than the Soviets, as the former has to push their HQs forward aggressively in a way that's never really true for the Sovs (not even when the Sovs are on the offensive.)

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

As you said, there is never any reason to want to move the HQ second. So why do it then?

Move the HQ first, there is no problem. If one didn't read the manual, then the fault lies with..... who?

With the noob player who is new to war games yet makes up 99% of the potential consumer market out there?

The harder a game is for a noob to enjoy, the less likely it is to sell. The less it sells, the less chance WE have to see it improved by the Devs.

The only way to keep this market alive and to keep us entertained is to encourage new players to join up. That means fixing the things that most new players have a hard time dealing with so that they don't get frustrated and uninstall the game, as so many have already.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

As you said, there is never any reason to want to move the HQ second. So why do it then?

Move the HQ first, there is no problem. If one didn't read the manual, then the fault lies with..... who?

With the noob player who is new to war games yet makes up 99% of the potential consumer market out there?

The harder a game is for a noob to enjoy, the less likely it is to sell. The less it sells, the less chance WE have to see it improved by the Devs.

The only way to keep this market alive and to keep us entertained is to encourage new players to join up. That means fixing the things that most new players have a hard time dealing with so that they don't get frustrated and uninstall the game, as so many have already.

I kind of doubt a noob to the market would start with something this complex in the first place. A noob would be more likely to buy AH's Victory in the Pacific before DG's War in the Pacific. And I would argue that most wargamers, at least the ones who are vets at it, would RTM first. I know people who won't even try a game w/o reading the manual first. (I'm not one of them, but after having a few HQ's disappear, I looked it up. There's even a sticky about it ) tm.asp?m=2641036

And noobs have it much easier than it used to be. They have forums to read. PDF manuals one can search.

Given that, and even in this thread it's been stated how it works, there is no excuse for allowing your own HQs to displace.

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

... so that they don't get frustrated and uninstall the game, as so many have already.

What proof do you have for the last part of this statement? You have no idea how many people bought the game, much less how many have stopped playing. And you can't count the handful of chronic complainers here who seem to get more enjoyment out of bashing the game than playing it, even though most appear to still be playing.

[Encircled]

Letting your own HQ's displace is like forgetting your wife's birthday.

You only do it once.

[AFV]

Aurelian: You clearly have misunderstood the point people have tried to make.
Its not that we don't know the rule. I read the manual, I know the rule. Its not that we disagree with the rule.
Its a simple misclick.
It would be similar the popups that are currently *already* in the game. I won't go to the bother of listing them all, but one for example is F12. Its to end your turn.

I know that. Its clearly stated- yet a popup comes up when you click on it. I wonder why? Its because a simple misclick could really fu your turn.
Do you really want to format this drive? Y/N
etc.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: AFV

Aurelian: You clearly have misunderstood the point people have tried to make.
Its not that we don't know the rule. I read the manual, I know the rule. Its not that we disagree with the rule.
Its a simple misclick.
It would be similar the popups that are currently *already* in the game. I won't go to the bother of listing them all, but one for example is F12. Its to end your turn.

I know that. Its clearly stated- yet a popup comes up when you click on it. I wonder why? Its because a simple misclick could really fu your turn.
Do you really want to format this drive? Y/N
etc.

A simple misclick is avoided by the simple act of paying attention. This isn't the EU/HOI series being played at warp speed.

It isn't the same as F12. Or a drive format. There already *is* a solution. Move the HQ first.

[AFV]

There already is a solution to hitting F12. Don't hit it until you are ready to end your turn. The rules are quite clear on that.
I will take the liberty of using the same logic use regarding HQ displacement.

[gradenko2k]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
A simple misclick is avoided by the simple act of paying attention. This isn't the EU/HOI series being played at warp speed.

It isn't the same as F12. Or a drive format. There already *is* a solution. Move the HQ first.

It's pretty ironic that you bring up EU / HOI, when those games have a full-featured "pause-and-throw-a-pop-up" design precisely so that you don't miss anything that you deem important, and you can customize what it pops-up with so you only get what you really need to be alerted for and not be bothered by events you consider trivial.

Just because WITE is a turn-based game does not mean that people are immune to making mistakes. Just because people are aware of the ruling does not mean they'll always remember the implications or the correct turn order. Just because there's a correct way to do it does not mean it's superfluous to add a mistake-catching feature. And just because the players would like to add a mistake-catching feature does not mean you'll soon have to add a similar one for every other small occurrence in the game.