When?

[vonRocko]

oops triple post

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: vonRocko



I don't understand, If people are already able to play others online, why are they waiting for this game? What will be different? (hopefully an AI)

You have to read more of the posts here. Many have commented that the difference is that MWiF will enforce all the rules without us having to look up stuff all the time. The rules for WiFFE are something like 128 pages. It will prevent errors like moving and attacking with units that are out of supply. Or moving them the wrong distance due to weather effects. Or moving ships too far because you overlook that it has a movement of 6 but is one of the rare CAs with a range of 4. It will calculate all the oil expenditure - which is considered by most players to be an almost unacceptable bookeeping overhead. It will ensure someone doesn't do their production wrong (for either players advantage). etc. etc.

Yep.

And Bo, I carry my laptop everywhere on holidays too, plus now many people (including me) have a mobile internet connection (in muy case only within Spain unfortunately) . So wifi (usually slow and bad quality) is not necessary anymore.

You will not need a fast internet connection to play MWIF over the internet. 110 baud might even work.[:D]

I've been monitoring the data exchange closely for NetPlay and there were only 218 data transmissions for creating the game prior to setting up the USSR in Barbarossa. There will be about the same number to actually set up the USSR's units. Each of these transmissions in less than 100 characters (bytes) long.

The full game creation process takes 8600+ 'events', but since almost all of those do not involve random numbers, each computer can perform those actions independently. For example, what major power controls each hex and in which pool (force pool, conquered pool, reserved pool, etc.) does each unit start the game can be determined by each computer without waiting for a random number from the 'master' computer.

[bo]

Ok Pauly you play net play on vassal, and I assume you are playing real time. My question would be why are you concerned about MWIF if you are already playing CWIF on vassel Do you feel Matix's version will be better? Is it rules or eye candy like pretty counters and such or you will be able to play posters here who do not want to play on Vassel. Please not being smart and nothing to do with the AI. I have never played anything net play. What do you see, I assume the map is in front of you on your computer, ok you make all your moves and when your finished do you type to your opponet I'm done? Are you a particular country with several players or are you allied or axis with one player. Example [for my benefit] in the cap phase do you just move your fighter over the unit you want to protect and your opponet sees this and reacts or do you have to type to your opponet what your intentions are besides what he sees you doing. If it sounds like a stupid question sorry I'm stupid about this game and net play. Is there a way to watch a game in progress somewhere? If you don't want to answer here because of length e-mail me, please.

Bo

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: bo

Ok Pauly you play net play on vassal, and I assume you are playing real time. My question would be why are you concerned about MWIF if you are already playing CWIF on vassel Do you feel Matix's version will be better? Is it rules or eye candy like pretty counters and such or you will be able to play posters here who do not want to play on Vassel. Please not being smart and nothing to do with the AI. I have never played anything net play. What do you see, I assume the map is in front of you on your computer, ok you make all your moves and when your finished do you type to your opponet I'm done? Are you a particular country with several players or are you allied or axis with one player. Example [for my benefit] in the cap phase do you just move your fighter over the unit you want to protect and your opponet sees this and reacts or do you have to type to your opponet what your intentions are besides what he sees you doing. If it sounds like a stupid question sorry I'm stupid about this game and net play. Is there a way to watch a game in progress somewhere? If you don't want to answer here because of length e-mail me, please.

Bo

See a couple posts back in my reply to vonRocko for many of the reasons why I'd prefer MWiF. It's a complicated game and we're all human so we all can make mistakes. It's more than that though. I've been following this project since 2008, became a beta tester in 2009 and I want to see the product be successful. I'm sorry for my views on the AI, but I just cannot believe an even barely competent AI can be made for a game of this complexity. Just one example (of many): a competent CW or US player can invade any (invadeable) hex in the world in one turn, with a bit of pre-planning (barring sea zones where restricted naval movement applies).

As for the Netplay experience, both Vassal has, and MWiF will have, a messaging capability - sort of like texting back and forth while you play. But IMO almost no one uses, or will use it. People who Netplay use Skype (or Face Time, etc.) to set up an audio link. You can add-on others and make a big conference call if you need to. Skype can do video calls too, but that's pointless when you are playing a game. So you connect up on Vassal (MWiF) and connect up on Skype and your den with your computer in it becomes a virtual wargame room with your fellow players in it. Things like CAP and intercepting naval moves, etc. are done identical to the way they are done over the board in a face-to-face game. All the social aspects of gaming with friends are replicated and the host doesn't even need to supply all the beer!

If you download and install Vassal and a WiF module for it, then yes indeed, it is possible to observe a game in progress.

[toki01]

Forgive my intrusion Great Ones.

I feel like a bug amongst the Gods.

I played my first game more than 20 years ago, maps taped together over my bed room floor. Two wives, and two decades later (hells... I really miss those decades), I have only played.... one game. You beat me by two Kermitt.

Without boring you with a biography, I too, have followed this site for a very long time.

I'd just like to say two things, and ask one other.

a/ I was totally skyed to note the approx June date for release. After so much work, and such 'Job like patience', I pay homage to those who have brought this work to within sight of completion.

b/ I recognise that many have waited even longer than I. So bring out the game ASAP for their sakes. But me... I need the AI. As a born again virgin, I cant wait for my next 'first' experience with WIF, but with no real history of WIF, no computer knowledge of all this PBEMNetplayWiFFE stuff, and no established network of other gamers, I can only see myself playing against AI. So bring out the 'play real people online' version as quick as you can, coz I can understand, and agree with the points made by Paulderynck... its a real bugga.... but don’t be too long in bringing out the AI version. Please.

c/ (question time) What is the best way for a semi-computer literate, un-networked person to get involved in either playing with himself (yes yes... chuckle away), or with others?

Cheers,

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

[Orm]

Welcome to the forum toki01.

Great to have you among us. [:)]

I belive that there are many who have not played a wif game in a very long time who will play MWIF. I think there are many who have not even played one game but are eager to give MWIF a try. While I understand that for many playing against the AI will be the main type of play I do think that giving netplay a try will be a positive experience.

Most of my MWIF experience have been playing against myself. And I suspect that I will play against the AI most of the time. But what I look forward to most is netplay.

[Jimm]

Hi Toki01

I'm hoping that the netplay is not going to be too technical to negotiate. As non-techie myself the user-friendliness of the netplay interface is something I will be very conscious of as we test this part of the game.

I understand the system will work in conjunction with a forum so I'm sure there'll be a large bunch of friendly potential players out there to match up with, and plenty of opportunity to fine tune playing groups to experience/ability levels, playing time commitments, and option preferences. In my experience here- the odd innevitable troll aside- this community is extremely friendly and welcoming so I'm sure you'll find a good mix of people pretty quickly.

I'm given to understand that the internet requirements of the netplay game should be fairly undemanding, so it should be a relatively easy to get on and get playing with a fairly modest internet connection.

Hope that helps.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: toki01

Forgive my intrusion Great Ones.

I feel like a bug amongst the Gods.

I played my first game more than 20 years ago, maps taped together over my bed room floor. Two wives, and two decades later (hells... I really miss those decades), I have only played.... one game. You beat me by two Kermitt.

Without boring you with a biography, I too, have followed this site for a very long time.

I'd just like to say two things, and ask one other.

a/ I was totally skyed to note the approx June date for release. After so much work, and such 'Job like patience', I pay homage to those who have brought this work to within sight of completion.

b/ I recognise that many have waited even longer than I. So bring out the game ASAP for their sakes. But me... I need the AI. As a born again virgin, I cant wait for my next 'first' experience with WIF, but with no real history of WIF, no computer knowledge of all this PBEMNetplayWiFFE stuff, and no established network of other gamers, I can only see myself playing against AI. So bring out the 'play real people online' version as quick as you can, coz I can understand, and agree with the points made by Paulderynck... its a real bugga.... but don’t be too long in bringing out the AI version. Please.

c/ (question time) What is the best way for a semi-computer literate, un-networked person to get involved in either playing with himself (yes yes... chuckle away), or with others?

Cheers,

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

Welcome to the forums hope to read more of your comments, the answer to your question will have to come from much more experienced players than me[&:]

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Welcome to the forum toki01.

Great to have you among us. [:)]

I belive that there are many who have not played a wif game in a very long time who will play MWIF. I think there are many who have not even played one game but are eager to give MWIF a try. While I understand that for many playing against the AI will be the main type of play I do think that giving netplay a try will be a positive experience.

Most of my MWIF experience have been playing against myself. And I suspect that I will play against the AI most of the time. But what I look forward to most is netplay.

Hi Orm, ah Sweden, if I would want to live elsewhere than the USA I think that Sweden and Switzerland would be two of my favorites, why, cannot say as I will take the fifth on that one [not whiskey][;)] You say you play yourself with Mwif, I assume you mean the Wif board game. Not a dig, I would really like to know how you do that as I have CWIF and outside of learning movement and a few things it is difficult at best to play yourself.

Bo

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: toki01

Forgive my intrusion Great Ones.

I feel like a bug amongst the Gods.

I played my first game more than 20 years ago, maps taped together over my bed room floor. Two wives, and two decades later (hells... I really miss those decades), I have only played.... one game. You beat me by two Kermitt.

Without boring you with a biography, I too, have followed this site for a very long time.

I'd just like to say two things, and ask one other.

a/ I was totally skyed to note the approx June date for release. After so much work, and such 'Job like patience', I pay homage to those who have brought this work to within sight of completion.

b/ I recognise that many have waited even longer than I. So bring out the game ASAP for their sakes. But me... I need the AI. As a born again virgin, I cant wait for my next 'first' experience with WIF, but with no real history of WIF, no computer knowledge of all this PBEMNetplayWiFFE stuff, and no established network of other gamers, I can only see myself playing against AI. So bring out the 'play real people online' version as quick as you can, coz I can understand, and agree with the points made by Paulderynck... its a real bugga.... but don’t be too long in bringing out the AI version. Please.

c/ (question time) What is the best way for a semi-computer literate, un-networked person to get involved in either playing with himself (yes yes... chuckle away), or with others?

Cheers,

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

Welcome to the forum.[:)]

But really, Great Ones? Obsessive-compulsive behavior is probably more accurate in my case.[:D]

---

I have been making good progress on NetPlay recently. Yesterday I was able to get both sides set up in Barbarossa. As the Russian player places his units on the map, the German player's computer instantly shows the placement of the units. The same is true when the two sides are reversed.

I can't fully describe the rush I got when that worked correctly. There are well over 10,000 lines of code just to create a new game and another 10,000 to send and receive the data for player decisions/actions. It was back in 2007 when I designed how that was to work and it took me many long months to write all the code for accomplishing it.

I ran through the entire player interface on the second computer and everything worked correctly. Because there are so many entries into the Game Record Log just to create a game, I have both computers perform that task independently. It was really nice to see that both machines made exactly 8482 GRL entries to reach the point where the USSR began randomly selecting units for the setup tray.

There is still a lot to test and inevitably debug, but that should be very straightforward to do.

---

As for running NetPlay, the only tricky bit is to determine a port number to use for the game. In almost all cases the default number should work. If you just own one computer, that should be it as far as the technical side of things goes. If, and only if, you have a home (or business) local area network (LAN), then there is the additional task of convincing your local router/server to permit incoming MWIF transmissions to use the port number.

Assuming you have a good port number, finding an opponent shouldn't be that difficult. Matrix/Slitherine have a system they have been using for finding PBEM opponents for many other games. MWIF is using a slight variation of that system for enabling MWIF players to find NetPlay opponents. Of course you need to agree on a day and time for when to play.

So, let's further assume that you have a worthy opponent and a scheduled game session.

One player starts a new MWIF game choosing the Internet mode of play, the same way he starts a new game for any other mode of play (e.g., solitaire). He has to type in the names of both players precisely, but that's about it. The program automatically branches to logging the first player into the NetPlay Private MWIF Forum. As soon as a the second player logs into that Forum, the program prompts the first player to click on the Start Game button and the program creates the new game (e.g., loads in the map and unit data for the given scenario and optional rules). If the first player sets up units first, then the Setup Tray appears and he starts placing units on the map.

The second player simply starts by logging into the Forum (there is a button for doing so on the opening screen). Once the first player has created the new game and logged into the Forum, the second player is prompted to click on the Start Game button, and his computer goes through the same process as the first player's computer.

Every MWIF game you play over the internet would start the same way.

Pretty simple [and I am working on eliminating the need for players to click on the Start Game button.[;)]]

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Orm

Welcome to the forum toki01.

Great to have you among us. [:)]

I belive that there are many who have not played a wif game in a very long time who will play MWIF. I think there are many who have not even played one game but are eager to give MWIF a try. While I understand that for many playing against the AI will be the main type of play I do think that giving netplay a try will be a positive experience.

Most of my MWIF experience have been playing against myself. And I suspect that I will play against the AI most of the time. But what I look forward to most is netplay.

Hi Orm, ah Sweden, if I would want to live elsewhere than the USA I think that Sweden and Switzerland would be two of my favorites, why, cannot say as I will take the fifth on that one [not whiskey][;)] You say you play yourself with Mwif, I assume you mean the Wif board game. Not a dig, I would really like to know how you do that as I have CWIF and outside of learning movement and a few things it is difficult at best to play yourself.

Bo

I actually meant my combined experience with both WIF and MWIF.

When playing solitaire games it helps to have some experience on how other people play WIF. But surprises are few and far between.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: toki01

Forgive my intrusion Great Ones.

I feel like a bug amongst the Gods.

I played my first game more than 20 years ago, maps taped together over my bed room floor. Two wives, and two decades later (hells... I really miss those decades), I have only played.... one game. You beat me by two Kermitt.

Without boring you with a biography, I too, have followed this site for a very long time.

I'd just like to say two things, and ask one other.

a/ I was totally skyed to note the approx June date for release. After so much work, and such 'Job like patience', I pay homage to those who have brought this work to within sight of completion.

b/ I recognise that many have waited even longer than I. So bring out the game ASAP for their sakes. But me... I need the AI. As a born again virgin, I cant wait for my next 'first' experience with WIF, but with no real history of WIF, no computer knowledge of all this PBEMNetplayWiFFE stuff, and no established network of other gamers, I can only see myself playing against AI. So bring out the 'play real people online' version as quick as you can, coz I can understand, and agree with the points made by Paulderynck... its a real bugga.... but don’t be too long in bringing out the AI version. Please.

c/ (question time) What is the best way for a semi-computer literate, un-networked person to get involved in either playing with himself (yes yes... chuckle away), or with others?

Cheers,

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

Great Ones?
I'm large, that's true. But Great? No way. I'm just one along billions of people... [:D]
A bug among the Gods? Help, I don't want to end up being a halfgod like they have in the old Greek stories. [:-]
Ille mi par esse deo videtur...

Only one answer possible: Welcome Great One... Signed: a bug among the Gods...

However I like your last line a lot...

"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum". Here's one in return:

Isto pensitaris? [:D]

[petracelli]

Steve

Am looking forward to seeing the results of your labour though stills bit concerned as a long time widget to the effect on game balance in china with bigger hexs.

Leaving that aside are you able to give us an idea as to min specs required to run mwif and an optimum, and assume it will run in vista or do I need to upgrade to 7?

Cheers

Phil

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Steve

Am looking forward to seeing the results of your labour though stills bit concerned as a long time widget to the effect on game balance in china with bigger hexs.

Leaving that aside are you able to give us an idea as to min specs required to run mwif and an optimum, and assume it will run in vista or do I need to upgrade to 7?

Cheers

Phil

I have been running MWIF in Vista. I had some small issues but when I run it in XP compatibility mode I had no trouble at all. So no need to upgrade.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Steve

Am looking forward to seeing the results of your labour though stills bit concerned as a long time widget to the effect on game balance in china with bigger hexs.

Leaving that aside are you able to give us an idea as to min specs required to run mwif and an optimum, and assume it will run in vista or do I need to upgrade to 7?

Cheers

Phil

I have been running MWIF in Vista. I had some small issues but when I run it in XP compatibility mode I had no trouble at all. So no need to upgrade.

I agree. I have been using Win 7 and Vista computers to test NetPlay. I've had no trouble with Vista running MWIF in XP compatibility mode.

[Jimm]

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Steve

Am looking forward to seeing the results of your labour though stills bit concerned as a long time widget to the effect on game balance in china with bigger hexs.

Leaving that aside are you able to give us an idea as to min specs required to run mwif and an optimum, and assume it will run in vista or do I need to upgrade to 7?

Cheers

Phil

I've been playtesting in Vista with no issues- I've never had to worry about setting any XP compatibility mode but it all seems to work fine. It will work fine on my netbook with cutdown Win7 although its a little slow; the main issue however with it is the small screen size!

[trooper76]

toki01,
Like you I had played 1 game in 20 years until 2 years ago I discovered PBEM. (Personally I use cyberboard but Vassal is also good). Since then I've been involved in a dozen games (even finished 1!), met a lot of cool people and become a much better WiF player (though I still make plenty of mistakes......garrison Copenhagen #!@$%%!!!!).s

I suggest joining the wifdiscussion group on yahoo groups or asking on the general forum here. I believe you will find several people who are willing to start a game, or re-introduce you to the game via PBEM.

Don't be put off by PBEM. At first it can seem a little challenging (just like anything new) but after getting over the initial learning curve it's a remarkably simple system. Can be played at your own pace, and well sure if you make rules mistakes other experienced players should catch them and/or it'll make a funny story about 3 turns down the road. (Part of the fun..)

Definitely join the wifdiscussion group on yahoo and ask for assistance!

[petracelli]

Thanks Gents for that and have been enjoying playing by vassal for sometime which really enjoy.

Steve any chance you can let us have an idea of min spec and optimum to run mwif.

Cheers

Phil

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Thanks Gents for that and have been enjoying playing by vassal for sometime which really enjoy.

Steve any chance you can let us have an idea of min spec and optimum to run mwif.

Cheers

Phil

From the Players Manual:

1.1 System Requirements

Operating System: Windows XP, Vista (using XP compatibility mode), or Win 7
CPU: Minimum = 1 GHz; Recommended = 2 GHz
RAM: Minimum = 1 GB; Recommended = 2 GB
Video/Graphics: Minimum = 128 MB graphics memory; Recommend = 512 MB
Sound card / speakers: Optional
Hard disk space: Minimum = 4 GB; Recommended = 12 GB
CD-Rom: Not required (program can be downloaded).
DirectX version: Direct X not used
Peripheral hardware: Mouse and Keyboard
Other: Internet connection for program updates.

[Jeff Gilbert]

Hi All,

Just doing my semi-annual check in and glad to see progress is still moving forward. [:)]
I always have that hesitant fear that the project gets dropped.
So glad this is not the case.

Well, best to all and, if I read correctly, credit card will be standing by for mid-year.

Jeff