Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes

[US87891]

Given the lack of interest, scenario work has been suspended.

[henry1611]

ORIGINAL: US87891

Given the lack of interest, scenario work has been suspended.

I am sorry to hear this, as I was most interested in this scenario. I am sure I am not the only one. Although only a few people have posted on this topic, those who have have expressed a keen interest. And the topic has had a respectable number of hits.

Your recent posts concerning the development of the scenario were very interesting. The attention to detail is impressive. I was looking forward to the new Combat Unit organization and the Ships reorganization in particular. The challenge that the Ships reorganization would present would greatly change the scenario, I believe, from the previous versions I have played where I was not as concerned with losing a ship or two.

Realizing that this is your avocation rather than vocation, I am one who is loathe to show interest by asking "When will it be ready?". I was taking the "your patience is appreciated and will be rewarded" approach you counseled.

In short, I hope the Babes team will reconsider. If not, will it consider providing me with the tools to continue the work that has been done to date?

TO EVERYONE ELSE: Please speak up and show your interest so that we can perhaps see this scenario realized.

[mikkey]

[:(] DaBabes Guadalcanal seemed promising

[JWE]

Matt’s just discouraged. He found where the HQ stuff doesn’t work like it’s supposed to and the scen don’t progress like it should and makes the AI barf. So we got to fix that. He has the TOEs and OOB stuff done (most of you will like it) so all I gotta do is tweak the HQ things and make sure nobody has enough transport ships.

So apologies to them of you from OZ out there, but the command structure is gonna be a bit strained. It’s set up to work within the constraints set up for the scenario, not follow some technical, historical, block diagram. Form, fit, feel, and function should work.

Matt is used to a different environment. The Title has a number of healthy and involved groups of players that interact outside the Matrix Forum. But I realise that the Forum is a valuable resource for people who lurk and wish to learn, but who don’t wish to post-and-play in the wargamer environment. So I understand the lack of response.

Having put forth Don Bowen’s Babes thing (and yes, Don is the Jove of Babes), there is an incumbency to support folks like Sarduakar, and others, who do so well in presenting it to the wider community. I would be remiss in failing to provide support to those silent battalions who wish only to play and learn.

Guadalcanal-Babes is coming: to a screen near you, soon.

[henry1611]

Your efforts are much appreciated. Looking forward to the scenario.

[Sardaukar]

Same here.

And thanks for the kind words, JWE! [8D]

I am sure this scenario will be good, if not great. Lot of people do not get that there are limitations in AE that we just have to live with.
I have played WitP since 2004 and AE since it was published..and I'd not even dream of trying to make a mod, much less AI script. [X(]

I am more into group like Alfred or LoBaron etc., who try to help other players to understand the game better..and thus making it more playable for other players. And when I found DaBabes, I'd find it very difficult to switch back to stock.

Keep up the good work, it is appreciated by those who know. [8D]

[berto]

ORIGINAL: henry1611

Looking forward to the scenario.

+1

[gabeeg]

I am one of the silent ones (at least in this forum)...I am in the background...silently but enthusiastically waiting for Guad! thanks all for your hard work!

[JWE]

Okey doke, then, for all ya'll background folks, turned up a diary by a young Lieutenant, Inui, Genjirou, who was there, that sheds a lot of light on wtfo with 28th IR, Ichiki, Kuma, Mizuno, etc..

Ok, 28 IR is on Guam, Ichiki gets orders and gallops off to Truk with II/28th and the regimental support companies. He gets there on 08/13 and right away splits the force, taking half of each inf coy, the Bn MMG coy, a couple Bn guns, and some engineers, on his hare-brained conquest of Guad from 1st MarDiv.

Thinking rationally, Ichiki would have been aware of the limited carying ability of the 6 DDs, so structured his conquistadores to fit and sprints to his goal, while the rest of his advance force (in Boston, Daifuku, and Idunno Maru) wallows in his wake. Inui doesn't say how he split up the company elements, and your guess is as good as mine.

What Inui does say is that he was part of the 2d echelon, that included;
The "rest" of "HQ" and the "rest" of no 1 - 4 inf coys; the AT gun coy, the 8th Indep AT gun coy, the rgt gun coy, and another constr eng coy.

And those vestiges became the Kuma Bn. The HQ and inf folks became No.1 and No.2 company; the weaps folks stayed the same; and everybody got sucked into Kawaguchi's 35th Brigade.

So what became of the I/28th and III/28th? Inui's diary references meeting an aquaintence from III/28th. Since the 28th IR support units were assigned to Kawaguchi, and he burned them unmercifully, there was nothing left on which to hang the poor dumb sumbitches of I/28 and III/28. Seems they all went into the pool to flesh out operational units and simply disapeared from our charts.

So what's the point of trying to squeeze Ichiki or his 2d echelon into the OOB? I mean, 400 infantrymen assaulting 1st MarDiv? Wtfo? Game doesn't, and can't, accommodate that degree of graininess, so what's the point, except to be 'oh, so historical'. So we got a little bit creative. Hope ya'll appreciate it.

Ciao. John

[JWE]

Matt's people received a preview copy of the latest translations of Japanese South Pacific Operations of 3 more volumes of Senshi Sosho. Given the people who are doing this, it is likely it will become available through the National Institute for Defese Studies, Tokyo and The Japan Foundation, Sydney very shortly. It looks to be the companion set for the Solomons region to IJA SoPac Ops, New Britain/Papua 1942-43, already published by NIDS/AJF.

Very cool stuff, since it details the composition of various IJN land "forces" in the 1942-43 period. I'm sure everyone knows that a Base, SNLF, or Guard, Force was pretty much the same thing in Japanese thinking. SNLFs became Base or Guard units, through renaming/redesignation, all the time. Difference was a Base unit had various admin, commo, transport, support units, attached at a HQ level, that the others didn't. Guard and SNLF units were fungible to the extent that (1939 style) SNLF units would lose infantry and replace it with AA and Hy (CD) gun companies. Certain Guard units had very little of separate infantry components. Similarly, certain SNLF units had little of AA and CD gun composition. And a Base Force could be designated from units at either end of the spectrum, by simply saying so and adding some HQ stuff.

So every single one is different. And it does go a long way towards explaining the profusion of platoon and company sized Landing Partys, from 2 or 3 different Guard units or SNLFs, that get redesignated into something else.

In game terms, it means we must parse the TO&Es very carefully; pull AA and CD units into separate entities, and allow for some separate, and mobile, infantry components, for both SNLF and Guard forces. This latest Senshi Sosho translation has given us a big leg-up on the actual TO&Es of many units and allows us to get creative within their actual historical deployment/utilization.

Game doesn't work too well with a gazillion different company (platoon) size units combining for an op. And thinking rationally, one does not expect a battalion to be assaulting a brigade or a division, so some of the finely divided Japanese OOBs are concatenated in order to present a more robust structure. Matt's choice, with which I concur completely.

Think you all will like the allocation division of the IJN land units into their various operational components. We do.

Ciao. John

[US87891]

SNLF and Guard Units are all different and do not work within the game environment well. Guadalcanal OOBs always put the 81st Guard Unit on the island, but that unit was not there. According to Hanada, there was a detachment of 116 men in what was called the 81st Special Dispatched Landing Unit. The name, in Japanese, is similar to 81st Naval Guard Unit, or 81st Special Naval Landing Force, so the confusion is understandable, but it was neither of these. It was composed of communications, medical, and survey sections from actual 81st Guard Unit formations, a water unit drawn from 84th Guard Unit formations, and a security unit (platoon size, and acting as infantry), drawn from an AA unit, of the 84th, without AA weapons. It was under command of Ens Siichi Hironose, from staff company 81st Guard, so there is another source of confusion.

3rd Kure, at Tulagi/Gavutu is equally misunderstood. According to Suzuki Masaaki (the commander), he had 2 SNLF infantry platoons, a gun unit, an AA unit, an intendence unit, a survey unit, an 81st Guard detachment for security duties, and a transport/boat unit. All fighting as infantry. Is this 3rd Kure - No, not even a third of it.

The Japanese assault on Milne Bay is incredibly informative. The units used and their composition go very far towards explaining the TO&Es of these transitional Units. John doesn't quite get it yet, but I think he'll get there.

Matt

[Mac Linehan]

Matt, JWE -

Was off line for some time, am now just catching up on the forums.

Am so very grateful that your team is working thru the challenges and chugging along. I respectfully submit that there are a good number of folks who are very interested in all things Babes; but whom may not post on a regular basis - if at all.

Of course, you do the work and we enjoy the results; please know that you are very much appreciated - your work is always professionally done and First Class; with great attention to detail. Men who give their all (voluntarily and unpaid!) to such time consuming projects - do so because of their love and passion for history and desire to refine AE to the fullest extent possible. How remarkable that a game released in 2009 (based on an earlier release!) was so well coded and designed that it can be continuously improved more than two years later.

When I think of the AE developers, and, more currently the Babes Team, one of my favorite quotes comes to mind:

"Integrity First, Service before self, Excellence in all we do"

Mac

[JWE]

Thank you Mac. You are always the Gentleman. So, for them of ya'll who who just want to check it out:

I do actually 'get it', but I'm being a bit intransigent about effective structure. Besides, Matt is so much fun to tweak, it pushes him to heights I don't really consider. Matt and I are negotiating furiously about how to slice and dice the various units and make them work as the scenario period progresses. This was the time frame where SNLF/Guard/SBF/whatever units were undergoing the transition from the simple early war ground combat/security model to the point defense/security model.

So, just for fun, here's how the 8th Combined SNLF is working out. It was the Kure 6th and Yokosuka 7th with a bunch of AAA and CD. They started out as detachments from guard units and had a small infantry unit, a AAA unit, and a CD gun unit. Then they got fleshed out with a bit more infantry, and a bit more robust AAA and CD units. When fully constituted, 8th Combined was 35% bigger than an equivalent IJA Regiment. I'm splitting/combining the heavy units out of K6 and Y7 into 8th Combined AAA and 8th Combined CD Units. The vestiges are expressed in the DB as K6 and Y7 infantry units. The beautiful thing is that adding everything together gives you what you would expect, in terms of troop/weapon count, and allows for mobility options for the infantry components.

So much fun!! Been having a ball. Woof!! Reading the latest translations is so informative. In Japanese, a battery is a battery, or a platoon, or a company, or a regiment, or every gd gun on a gd island (from 2 to 196). So units have these commander guys, and a unit might have an AA "Unit" commander (so look at his rank) and have platoon "Unit" commanders under him. So search the names and see what kind of guns they were humping, and you get a good idea as to who was doing what, and what that means to the OOB.

Just a thought. Ciao. John

[Sardaukar]

This is sounding better and better.

I am especially happy about the fact that smaller scenario would be perfect introduction to DaBabes, without newer players having to start Grand Gampaign and be overwhelmed.

[Mac Linehan]

JWE -

I love the background history and how it breaks down into game terms - Thank You for taking the time to explain the "why" and "therefore"!

It's a three day weekend, decided to start a new DBB Scn28 C v10; have spent the day happily editing with enthusiasm.

Can't help doing so because:

> Don puts up screen shots of his light craft and other babies to tempt me;

> FDRLincoln has posted his Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - and T (whom, along with Don and the Babes Team, I consider to be only slightly lower than the Disciples of Christ in all things Naval) actually chimes in with two whole sentences - (which tells me that the Cruiser is a go in my scenario!)...

Edit:

Gents, In my excitement I have forgotten my manners, and shall ask FDRLincoln for permission to use his ship.

Life is Good <grin>

Mac

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
...

> Don puts up screen shots of his light craft and other babies to tempt me;

...

Who, me?

[DuckofTindalos]

It's what he does. He's The Don.

[Shark7]

What a tease. [;)]

Interesting ship list there though. [:D]

[dwg]

ORIGINAL: US87891

We have a special map modification that we use for the Solomons. Slight displacements of Guadalcanal and Bougainville Islands allow Guadalcanal to span 3 hexes, Tassafaronga in the NW, Lunga in the center, and Taivu in the SE; the SE tip of Bougainville is expanded to span 2 hexes, Buin on the SE tip of Bougainville, and Shortlands right next door. It does tend to make things a little more interesting during the opening moves of 1942.

Oddly enough I was looking at Bougainville last night and thinking pretty much the same thing, so I'll be very interested to see precisely how you've handled the map.

And while we're in the area, can anyone confirm that Shortlands was in the British Solomons, rather than the German Solomons with Bougainville, immediately pre-WWI? It comes up in some what-iffery I'm playing with, but I can't seem to find an actual listing of which island was in which group at what time (and just to complicate things it did change pre-WWI).

[JWE]

This is what our Solomons map looks like. Threw in Fauro Island between Pirumeri and Choiseul. The speck in the middle is Ballele. Also stuck Savo Island in there. Scenario will have the regular map and regular bases however.

Think Shortlands group went to Britain in 1899 as part of the Samoa swap thing. Germany kept Bougainville. Mr Wikiwonka has a map from 1911 showing the Shortlands group as part of the British area. Dividing line goes right through the Buin Straight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map-K ... chipel.png