Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser"

[oldman45]

Thank you sir

[oldman45]

So are we leaning towards AA cruiser or AV?

[DuckofTindalos]

AA would be far more likely, if we assume a relatively historical progress of the war. Remember that the Celebes, like the Tromp before her, is relatively small, but fast and maneuverable. It would be a waste not to use her in a direct role instead of as a support ship.

[FDRLincoln]

Yeah, I am working on a CLAA conversion. Should have it done tonight.

My thinking is that the refit tree would go

CS-original configuration
CS-with improved AA and British radar, mid-1942
CLAA-retains forward 5.9s, but seaplane hangar replaced with battery of British 4-inch AA+extra 40mm/20mm, radar, mid-1943

[FDRLincoln]

Celebes AA cruiser refit.

I'm retaining the forward 5.9s for some anti-surface ability, but the hangar and all seaplanes replaced with 4inchDP mountings.

[oldman45]

I would think if they are going to add all the equipment to make it into an CLAA, then they would go ahead and switch out the forward guns for HA mounts.

[FDRLincoln]

I thought about doing that but decided I wanted to retain a little punch for anti-surface or bombardment use. However, obviously it would be simple enough to change that in your own mod.

[DuckofTindalos]

No offence, but where are the Dutch going to find new barrels for those guns once they've been worn out? Better change the whole main battery; it also makes ammunition supply easier.

[FDRLincoln]

No offense taken. If I remember correctly, Tromp retained her 5.9s through the entire war. Van Heemskerck was refitted as a pure AA cruiser by the British because she had escaped from the Netherlands in an incomplete condition without her main battery installed when the Germans invaded.

[DuckofTindalos]

This is true. However, the Tromp didn't actually get to fire her guns all that much. The gunboats Flores and Soemba were used extensively for shore bombardment and had to be pulled from service precisely because the Dutch ran out of spare gun tubes.

[FDRLincoln]

Hmm. Well I see your point then. I will revise this to swap out the 5.9s for more 4-inchers.

[FDRLincoln]

Dropping the 5.9 turrets for the less-heavy 4inchers also frees up some weight savings for additional 40mm Bofors too.

[DuckofTindalos]

It also means that the ship is less of a between-two-stools sort of thing. She's basically an oversized destroyer, anyways...

[oldman45]

Terminus, do you happen to have art work for the CLAA version?

[DuckofTindalos]

Not on hand, but I can probably rustle something up fairly quickly.

[oldman45]

Thanks in advance.

[FDRLincoln]

Celebes with the 5.9s replaced with more 4inchDP

[DuckofTindalos]

It sometimes amazes me how many weapons could be squeezed onto ships back then. This is the van Hemskeerck, just after the war. It's a small ship!

[DuckofTindalos]

BTW, with the upgrade scheme proposed by "FDRLincoln" above, the van Hemskeerck side that already comes with the game is completely appropriate. The Celebes is meant to be of the same class, after all.

[FDRLincoln]

Yeah, I see the Celebes as originally built as a half-sister to Tromp and van Hemskeerck, so the same illustration should work post-AA refit.