Historiker (J) vs. USS America (A) - no USS America

[Historiker]

It is amazing, how well my concept of the inner line and the torpedo centers seems to work (in theory):

Each Torpedo center will only have one big Netty-Group. This will be sufficiant for an enemy convoy in range without own CAP. But when the time comes and his invasion is aproaching, I want as many Nettys ready to attack him as possible. To achieve that, I use the inner lines. I have a shorter way to transfer my assets then he has.

All "reaction-Nettys" will be stationed on Truk, as long as this island is out of 4e-range.
G3M3 Nell have a transfer range of 72 - and this is almost "as designed", if you look at the distances:

Truk-Rabaul: 17
Truk-Tulagi: 29
Truk-Tabiteuea: 38
Truk-Kwajalein (around it, Kwajalein itself is too small): 24
Truk-Suva: 52
Truk-Darwin: 44
Truk-Dilli: 44
Truk-Soerabaja: 58

and now it gets interesting:
Truk-Paramushiro Jima: 61
Truk-Palembang: 72
Truk-Attu: 71

So except Rabaul, my G3M3 reserve will be in every other Torpedo center within one turn! Of course, they'll suffer ops losses of up to 20% in losses and damaged. But when those bombers indeed repell an invasion, its more than worth it!

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

[So I'll stay in Burma!
I don't expect that I can stop him from building airfields at the line mentioned above - that's simply impossible! He can rush in more engineers that I can count while the bases are supplied by railway network. Every air battle above the airfields will cost me pilots, while his have a good chance of survival!

To hold Burma until 45, I will do this:

I'll be curious what others think. My thoughts, and take them with a grain of sand as I play AI, I don't think you can hold Burma until '45 unless you move into India.

Watching PzB's AAR, Andy was able to mount far too much punch and easily pushed him out of Burma in '44. The only reason to push into India is to force them to push you back burning time. Barring an end around Amphib, which you should encourage as this gives you a shot at his navy, if the allies have to start at Calcutta (or farther west), it will take them that much longer to force their way into Burma. This does mean that you have to have your retreat and follow on lines of defense thought through and prepped, very much as you outline.

Just my 2 cents ... use as you see fit ...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

2. Northern China:
After shifting garrisons to free as many offensive units as possible, I will start two major offensives:
A: The race for Lanchow
All available tank units will be temporarily deployed for China. That includes those in the SRA. They will race along the dirt road to Lanchow destroying everything on their way.

B: Threatening inner USSR:
About 100 AV in tank units will race the good road along the mongolian border and then turn "left" to Kiuchuan. If he hasn't redeployed the 82nd Chinese Corps to Kiuchuan, all of Xinjang will be mine! within a year!

C: The Key to the North: Sian!
Heavy forces will follow the left bank of the Huang He and cross it where the Wei River flows into the Huang He. The enemy forces in the south will largely be bypassed, while the troops in the south maintain contact with the enemy.
Hopefully, Sian, the "Key to the North" as I cristend it once, will be in my hands within two months.

I like this. I don't know that you will need the additional SRA tanks to accomplish this, but they assuredly will guarantee victory. I'll be watching this one unfold. Can't wait.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

4. Alaska
To protect my northern flank, I will invade Alaska. Allright, just the Aleutians, but I plan to occupy everything in the Island Chain till Port Heiden. For matters of prestige, depending on the enemy forces, I will also take the Yellow Area to have invaded the American continent.
Even if this happens, I will not leave any troops behind. The sole purpose is to destroy the enemy forces in the area.
After the conquest is complete, I will reatreat most of my forces to the most western part of the island chain to create a Torpedo Center in Atuu. If there's both time and ressources, I'll built another one on Amchitka Island.
While I will occupy everything from Attu to Adak within the next weeks by fast transports and while I'll try to interdict any enemy reinforcements, I'll only do serious invasions when I can provide the appropriate cover. To be able to do this, other objectives have to be achieved and the defensive positions have to be prepared in other regions. I have no benefit from taking Dutch Harbor while USS America invades Java...

Yeah, I always like Adak early and there is little that the allies can do about it. I'm always afraid of a GJ type attack on Hokkaido, so this is a must for me. Be interesting to see if you can get your yellow box. I think you can, but I've not seen it before. BANZAI!!!

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

It is amazing, how well my concept of the inner line and the torpedo centers seems to work (in theory):

Each Torpedo center will only have one big Netty-Group. This will be sufficiant for an enemy convoy in range without own CAP. But when the time comes and his invasion is aproaching, I want as many Nettys ready to attack him as possible. To achieve that, I use the inner lines. I have a shorter way to transfer my assets then he has.

All "reaction-Nettys" will be stationed on Truk, as long as this island is out of 4e-range.
G3M3 Nell have a transfer range of 72 - and this is almost "as designed", if you look at the distances:

Truk-Rabaul: 17
Truk-Tulagi: 29
Truk-Tabiteuea: 38
Truk-Kwajalein (around it, Kwajalein itself is too small): 24
Truk-Suva: 52
Truk-Darwin: 44
Truk-Dilli: 44
Truk-Soerabaja: 58

and now it gets interesting:
Truk-Paramushiro Jima: 61
Truk-Palembang: 72
Truk-Attu: 71

So except Rabaul, my G3M3 reserve will be in every other Torpedo center within one turn! Of course, they'll suffer ops losses of up to 20% in losses and damaged. But when those bombers indeed repell an invasion, its more than worth it!

Yeah, I love the Nell with its range. As you say, it gives great flexibility. Always wish I had more groups.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: castor troy

at the beginning I try to rush fighter pilots to the front of course, trying to get them to 65 air skill on average. Next step is filling out the frontline fighter squadrons with 70 air skill pilots. As soon as all squadrons filled up, I take the spare 70 air skill pilots from the reserve pool and start using backwater squadrons to train 100ft airfield attack until they reach 70 def skill, same time other training squadrons are still training up 70 air skill pilots of course. From mid/late 42 on (depending on the losses) all my frontline squadrons are filled with 70/70 pilots only.

I guess sending a small percentage of untrained pilots among the veterans to train live is nothing to do unless it is necessary?

Echoing CT here, training increases skill pretty rapidly. Combat increases exp. Training caps at 70 skill. I generally stop my training in the mid-60's or so. Training also increases exp, but far slower. The tempo of my games just does not allow for the pilots to stay in training until they reach 60 exp. I wish I could.

As CT says, 80 skill/exp pilots are REALLY hard to grow. I plan for 70/50 skill/exp pilots. Anything above that is gravy.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Historiker

[So I'll stay in Burma!
I don't expect that I can stop him from building airfields at the line mentioned above - that's simply impossible! He can rush in more engineers that I can count while the bases are supplied by railway network. Every air battle above the airfields will cost me pilots, while his have a good chance of survival!

To hold Burma until 45, I will do this:

I'll be curious what others think. My thoughts, and take them with a grain of sand as I play AI, I don't think you can hold Burma until '45 unless you move into India.

Watching PzB's AAR, Andy was able to mount far too much punch and easily pushed him out of Burma in '44. The only reason to push into India is to force them to push you back burning time. Barring an end around Amphib, which you should encourage as this gives you a shot at his navy, if the allies have to start at Calcutta (or farther west), it will take them that much longer to force their way into Burma. This does mean that you have to have your retreat and follow on lines of defense thought through and prepped, very much as you outline.

Just my 2 cents ... use as you see fit ...

India's army is serious business. The only chance to achieve something would be to destroy many units, but with that infrastructure, that's way more easy being said then done...
Right now, many units in India are understrengthed or disrupted. So an invasion might indeed work.
But:
- I have to commit many units that I'm going to miss somewhere else.
- I need less troops for a defense than for an offense
- I need the KB in the IO for an amphibic invasion. If I go by land, it'll take a month or more until I'm in india, disrupted, without supplies, etc. - but I need KB now for PM and the Solomones

Do you have the exact lines that I mustn't corss if I don't want the reinforcements to be triggered? It might be an option to go in via Chittagong and then do another invasion about a month later near Bombay. He should've sent many reinforcements to the Calcutta front, so tank units should be able to cut off eastern (here southern) India by conquering Dehli.
But if that triggers the reinforcements, I'm not sure I've gained anything...

Also: I should decide whether I want to hold out as long as possible, or whether I want to get victory disease.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Historiker

[So I'll stay in Burma!
I don't expect that I can stop him from building airfields at the line mentioned above - that's simply impossible! He can rush in more engineers that I can count while the bases are supplied by railway network. Every air battle above the airfields will cost me pilots, while his have a good chance of survival!

To hold Burma until 45, I will do this:

I'll be curious what others think. My thoughts, and take them with a grain of sand as I play AI, I don't think you can hold Burma until '45 unless you move into India.

Watching PzB's AAR, Andy was able to mount far too much punch and easily pushed him out of Burma in '44. The only reason to push into India is to force them to push you back burning time. Barring an end around Amphib, which you should encourage as this gives you a shot at his navy, if the allies have to start at Calcutta (or farther west), it will take them that much longer to force their way into Burma. This does mean that you have to have your retreat and follow on lines of defense thought through and prepped, very much as you outline.

Just my 2 cents ... use as you see fit ...

India's army is serious business. The only chance to achieve something would be to destroy many units, but with that infrastructure, that's way more easy being said then done...
Right now, many units in India are understrengthed or disrupted. So an invasion might indeed work.
But:
- I have to commit many units that I'm going to miss somewhere else.
- I need less troops for a defense than for an offense
- I need the KB in the IO for an amphibic invasion. If I go by land, it'll take a month or more until I'm in india, disrupted, without supplies, etc. - but I need KB now for PM and the Solomones

Do you have the exact lines that I mustn't corss if I don't want the reinforcements to be triggered? It might be an option to go in via Chittagong and then do another invasion about a month later near Bombay. He should've sent many reinforcements to the Calcutta front, so tank units should be able to cut off eastern (here southern) India by conquering Dehli.
But if that triggers the reinforcements, I'm not sure I've gained anything...

Also: I should decide whether I want to hold out as long as possible, or whether I want to get victory disease.

The line is somewhere up by Delhi ... you have to go pretty far north. It is a east/west line, not a north south one.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo



I'll be curious what others think. My thoughts, and take them with a grain of sand as I play AI, I don't think you can hold Burma until '45 unless you move into India.

Watching PzB's AAR, Andy was able to mount far too much punch and easily pushed him out of Burma in '44. The only reason to push into India is to force them to push you back burning time. Barring an end around Amphib, which you should encourage as this gives you a shot at his navy, if the allies have to start at Calcutta (or farther west), it will take them that much longer to force their way into Burma. This does mean that you have to have your retreat and follow on lines of defense thought through and prepped, very much as you outline.

Just my 2 cents ... use as you see fit ...

India's army is serious business. The only chance to achieve something would be to destroy many units, but with that infrastructure, that's way more easy being said then done...
Right now, many units in India are understrengthed or disrupted. So an invasion might indeed work.
But:
- I have to commit many units that I'm going to miss somewhere else.
- I need less troops for a defense than for an offense
- I need the KB in the IO for an amphibic invasion. If I go by land, it'll take a month or more until I'm in india, disrupted, without supplies, etc. - but I need KB now for PM and the Solomones

Do you have the exact lines that I mustn't corss if I don't want the reinforcements to be triggered? It might be an option to go in via Chittagong and then do another invasion about a month later near Bombay. He should've sent many reinforcements to the Calcutta front, so tank units should be able to cut off eastern (here southern) India by conquering Dehli.
But if that triggers the reinforcements, I'm not sure I've gained anything...

Also: I should decide whether I want to hold out as long as possible, or whether I want to get victory disease.

The line is somewhere up by Delhi ... you have to go pretty far north. It is a east/west line, not a north south one.

AE-Map doesn't use the Mercator-Projection, which can't be used anyways, if the hex sizes doesn't change. Thus, Malaya seems to be almost perfectly North-South while it is IRL more tipping to the East.
India instead seems to be West-East while it is more North-South IRL. [;)]

When u assume the regular "up is north" of a map, "AE-India's" North is Karachi, while it is Western India IRL

So by meaning "eastern (here southern)", I mean the eastern IRL, but "running below Bombay-Dehli" [;)]

Have I managed to eraze every last understanding about what I'm saying? [:D]


Where are the trigger-lines? Is there a thread about it, or something in the manual?

[PaxMondo]

I think its in the manual and Moose (I think) did not only an exact examination of where the lines are, but what units are activated.  Pretty sure GJ's AAR also covers this as rader triggered them.  He still almost conquered Karachi.  I think QBall also got close in his AAR before he left for WITE.

PS: yeah, i know the map twists around. I was referring to top of map being North no matter what the 'real' direction is. [;)]

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I think its in the manual and Moose (I think) did not only an exact examination of where the lines are, but what units are activated.  Pretty sure GJ's AAR also covers this as rader triggered them.  He still almost conquered Karachi.  I think QBall also got close in his AAR before he left for WITE.

PS: yeah, i know the map twists around. I was referring to top of map being North no matter what the 'real' direction is. [;)]

8.3.5 COUNTER INVASION FORCES
If ground units from one side or the other move into certain areas of the map they will trigger
various reinforcements for the other side to appear. The reinforcements that appear are
dependent on the area that is entered. These areas include:
Japanese Entry of:
»» Northern India
»» New Zealand
»» Southern Australia
»» West Coast of North America south of Vancouver.
Allied Entry of:
»» Japan
»» Indo-China by the Chinese

So nothing in the manual..

I now found something about "south of the Brisbane-Line" in Australia, which means one can conquer about 80% of the Country. Nice
But I haven't found anything else.


But as I said before:
I have no clue of defending in AE. When loosing a battle means turning the units almost useless for months, how could I sucessfully fight retreat-battles in India? If I invade india, it'll more likely end with my units getting destroyed and him being in Singapore in 43.



BTW:
A first turn in this scenario is more complicated than in the GC. As almost all ships are in Osaka, you even have to think about which to send where, to pick up units...

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I have no clue of defending in AE. When loosing a battle means turning the units almost useless for months, how could I sucessfully fight retreat-battles in India? If I invade india, it'll more likely end with my units getting destroyed and him being in Singapore in 43.

Aye, there's the rub. India is a 'go big or go home' operation if you're trying for auto victory. Win big or suffer the consequences.

I would look at an Indian campaign as an opportunity to destroy large numbers of Allied units and delay the Allied India-Burma resurgence sufficiently to make it a less advantageous route of advance. Not much more.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I have no clue of defending in AE. When loosing a battle means turning the units almost useless for months, how could I sucessfully fight retreat-battles in India? If I invade india, it'll more likely end with my units getting destroyed and him being in Singapore in 43.

Aye, there's the rub. India is a 'go big or go home' operation if you're trying for auto victory. Win big or suffer the consequences.

I would look at an Indian campaign as an opportunity to destroy large numbers of Allied units and delay the Allied India-Burma resurgence sufficiently to make it a less advantageous route of advance. Not much more.

I think about this since yesterday. As I'll loose the ground anyways, I wouldn't go for conquered territory, but to destroy armies. So I start thinking about something else...

When I can keep some striking power in the KB and USS America already invades Burma in early 43, I may fall back to the jungle hexes north of Rangoon and hold out there. As I'll defend the coast against an invasions, this should draw enough troops of him into this area..
If China went well, I will be able to take about 2 divisions and several tank units from there and combine them with my reserve. This reserve will then land in Chittagon and advance to the Tibet border. This should be doable with the strength of 5-7 Divisions, I hope. If that works, I advance to Calcutta and leave enough behind to hold the line while I THEN advance along the Chittagong-Ledo line.
If this works, I cut off his whole army for this area. He'll be able to get parts of it out, but the majority might be destroyed.

I think planning such a move looks way more effective than advancing now.
Also, as other offensives are done by that time, I'll be able to concentrate my forces to that area, while now I#d either had to cancle offensives and front-straightenings, or had to go in with only fractions.

I plan to keep to Heinz Guderian's principle "Nicht kleckern, klotzen" (something like "do not mess, show off")

[PaxMondo]

From what I've seen in PzB's game, after mid-43 you won't be able to manouver very well.  The problem is by then he will have sufficient 4E's to interdict any movement you try.  Even in jungle, he will at least force your units to combat mode and slow you up.  PzB has even taken some horrendous casualties in jungle hexes. So any encirclement you try, he will have plenty of time to prepare for.
 
That's why I suggested moving the front forward as far as you can.  You're going to be in retreat beginning in mid 43.  With massed 4E's, he will be able to take any hex, but only one hex.  You can make him crawl all the way instead of ride rails.  At least that's how I'm seeing it. 
 
CB has a lot more experience, so I'll defer to him.  I also agree with his statement about "go big or go home".
 
I guess at the end of the day, IJ has too many targets and not enough forces to deal with them all.  And, as you point out, this is a delayed start.  Already May, 42.  You don't have time to prep for targets like a Dec 41 start.
 
This is gonna be a lotta fun to watch.

[Chickenboy]

Ceylon is also a prize plum. As an island, Allied units trapped there will be destroyed. Kaput. As a strategic goal-it's meh. But it's a delightful little Allied deathtrap in mid-1942 and quite doable as the Japanese.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Ceylon is also a prize plum. As an island, Allied units trapped there will be destroyed. Kaput. As a strategic goal-it's meh. But it's a delightful little Allied deathtrap in mid-1942 and quite doable as the Japanese.

You are right.
About 600 AV on Ceylon. I could invade it, destroy the units and collect the ressources there as long as it is possible without serious losses in shipping.
When he's getting more serious, I could evacuate most of my troops there.

But considering the RN, I'd have to use all of my BBs and KB there.
If I were him, I'd start preparing for an invasion in the Carolines and on Wake on turn one. If the KB appears in the Indian Ocean - and stays there for some turns - my fleet would set sail.

That means the Carolines (hard to reconquer) are lost just to get Ceylon (expected to be given up after just a few months). That doesn't seem like a good exchange, does it?

BTW:
I've found two more US F-Groups in India. With the 4 groups in China, he can add 150 US fighters to this theatre. That's nothing to be ignored.

The only really tempting thing is to land in Surat and advance to Bareily just south of Dehli. If that doesn't trigger the reinforcements, I could clear all of India south of it.
But the forces needed would require me to stop every other serious offensive in other theatres while my supplylines are in serious danger.
Also, the garrison requirements would either consume most of my troops or leave me without PPs. Not that attractive, too!


In theory, all that looks fine. But theory won't help me against a player who has showed to be aggressive and who is good in land combat according to Steve.
It seems to make more sense shipping a few (!) additional divisions to China and try to conquer it, or at least everything except the Chunking-Corner. In that case, given the supply shortages, I should be able to free a lot of divisions in early to mid 43 for other use.
I should be able to hold Burma when I can add several additiional divisions there, shouldn't I?

[Historiker]

I dhould mention that I don't play for points at all.

So either I play to have some fun and kick some arse (aka Victory Disease), or I play to hold out as long as possible.


Is it a strategic disadvantege to trigger the West Coast reinforcements? Are those units that can be used somewhere else than the West Coast?
If not, I might do a sub invasion on the Mainland US, just for the fun of it, too [8D]

[Historiker]

I'm about to finish my turn.

I decided to turn off the Ki-27 production, but leave the bigger factory untouched. With a production rate of 35, it'll be able to produce additional training aircraft if need be. But as the Ki-44 is ahead, there'll also be a lot of Ki-43 to use for that purpose, so I might not need additional Ki-27 for training, even considering their engine doesn't cost anything.
The Ki-27 factory in Harbin will produce 10 B5M1 per month until their engine pool is empty.

Those are the divisions (brigade) not in use right now:

2nd Division 348 Sendai
16th Division 463 Manila
48th Division 463 Manila
65th Brigade 252 Legaspi
38th Division 480 Davao
4th Division 458 Soerabaja
21st Division 432 Batavia
Imperial Guards 463 Singapore
5th Division 480 Singapore

16th, 48th. 38th and the 65th Brigade prepare for Darwin. This will hopefully be enough.

Imperial Guards and 5th Division will move to Indochina as soon as there's other garrison for Singapore. They'll enter China via Indochina and conquer the supply lines to Changsha.

2nd Division will be held in Reserve and propably be sent to China as well.

4th and 21st stay on Java for the time being. They'll propably be used for the invasion fo Western Australia, together with two divisions from the Invasion of Northern Australia.

A fast Transport with 4DD will start collecting the Aleutian bases immediately. The four Fubuki III destroyer would be a loss, but one I can accept to avoid diverting my big fleet.

One division is heading for Rabaul to take PM. It will be helped by the South Seas detatchment and various Naval Guard units.

[Historiker]

Ave Tenno, morituri te salutant!

And Tenno's spirit, raging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

Mike has my turn.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7157740322

[princep01]

So, after 4 pages of chatter, threats, maps, lines drawn, and changed, we at last approach the point of doing all those foul deeds and actually blowning something up.

The Emperor should enjoy the next year greatly....if not, then surrender gracefully before the Allies start planting mushrooms on your islands. Good luck, Historiker.....the Allies will not go meekly to their doom.