The Greatest Generation

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: USS America

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's some Wiki information about Hawes.  The guy did his duty in exemplary fashion - note in particular his conduct at Cavite on December 10, 1941:

Somewhere in the years not mentioned in Wiki he managed to become qualified in submairnes. In that era this was generally not possible without being attached PCS to a submarine.

Moose, he did spend many years on Sub Tenders, so he likely had more opportunity than most surface warfare guys.

You couldn't do it then while on a tender. I believe it required shooting a number of exercise fish, five if my memory isn't shot. Also lots and lots of system drawings, tests, boards, etc.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Just to verify then - Hawes is in the uniform of a Lieutenant-Commander in that photo?

Yes. Line officer (the star), two-and-a-half stripes. CDR is three. Capt. is four. Flag officers have a very broad one, then extras for Rear, Vice, Admiral, and Fleet Admiral.

Also, from what I can see, he only has one Navy Cross in his ribbons. No device on the ribbon for the seocnd.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's some Wiki information about Hawes.  The guy did his duty in exemplary fashion - note in particular his conduct at Cavite on December 10, 1941:

Somewhere in the years not mentioned in Wiki he managed to become qualified in submairnes. In that era this was generally not possible without being attached PCS to a submarine.

Here is the answer, from the official US Navy history site:

"“Spittin’ Dick” Hawes had already become a legend among submariners. He had a reputation of superb loyalty to subordinates and was known for his ingenuity with men and the materials at hand. A special act of Congress elevated him to officer rank 18 February 1929 in recognition of his salvage feats on submarines S–51 and S–4. He had entered the Navy as a Fireman in 1917 and had earned the Navy Cross for distinguished service in salvaging Submarine S–51 during 1925–1926. He later served in several “S-boats,” at the New London Submarine Base, became a Master Diver, then joined the staff of Submarine Division 4. He commanded submarine salvage ship Falcon from 1935 to 1938, served as Officer in Command of the Submarine Escape Training Tank at the Submarine Base in Hawaii, then took command of Pigeon 12 February 1940."

CR, you might want to look here. There is a lot more bio info and data on the Cavite attack:

http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/p6/pigeon-i.htm

[Schanilec]

Thompson? Reynolds? Sounds like Grand Forks County.[:D]

[Canoerebel]

Thanks, gents, for the gentle corrections and additional information.
 
I have a question.  Why wouldn't a guy like this - who had shown bravery and ingenuity under fire - been promoted to a larger command, such as destroyers or capital ships?  He seemed to be a well-recognized leader, but he remains in command of sub tenders throughout the war.  Does that suggest there was anything "negative" about his leadership or capabilities?  Or could there be other and completely inoccuous reasons?
 
(With no military background whatsoever, I am clueless about these things.  If even asking the question gives offense ot military folks, pardon me and attribute it to my ignorance.)

[USSAmerica]

I'm not an expert on promotion tracks during the WWII era, Dan, but folks generally stayed in the "community" they start in. Subs, surface, or air are and were rather separated. Of course around that time the aviation community was just hitting puberty, so lots of rapid growing meant men and officers transferring in from other areas.

Once Adm. Hawes was promoted to Captain, he was above the rank where most SS or DD commanding officers live. They were mostly LCDR or CDR's. Captains would be sub squadron staff officers, or in command of larger (crew size) ships, which AS's qualify as. There were CA's, BB's, and CV's around that had Captains as their CO, but he likely didn't have the experience in air or surface combat to command them. His expertise was in submarines, and specifically salvage and repair of subs. The AS was a perfect fit. [:)]

[Schanilec]

Or if it was similar to the army. In one case, my buddies father (literally after the service. Episcopal). After graduating from college with ROTC he entered the army in 1936. He served through the Pacific (Commanded B or D btry., 61st Art. Bn., 1st Cavalry Division), post-war Japan and Germany, Korea and a visit to Vietman. Got assigned to U. of North Dakota ROTC and retired 1972 as a full colonel. He never made general. He wasn't a West Pointer.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: USS America

I'm not an expert on promotion tracks during the WWII era, Dan, but folks generally stayed in the "community" they start in. Subs, surface, or air are and were rather separated. Of course around that time the aviation community was just hitting puberty, so lots of rapid growing meant men and officers transferring in from other areas.

Once Adm. Hawes was promoted to Captain, he was above the rank where most SS or DD commanding officers live. They were mostly LCDR or CDR's. Captains would be sub squadron staff officers, or in command of larger (crew size) ships, which AS's qualify as. There were CA's, BB's, and CV's around that had Captains as their CO, but he likely didn't have the experience in air or surface combat to command them. His expertise was in submarines, and specifically salvage and repair of subs. The AS was a perfect fit. [:)]

He also did not go to the Academy. This was extremely important in WWII to get command of one of the sexy big boys. It's also possible there was animosity in some senior officers who sat selection boards that he got his commission by an actual special act of Congress. Does his bio say he ever went to any college? By the time the war started he was no spring chicken either. DDs were a younger man's job. Hard on the body.

I'd go with him knowing subs as the main reason. An AS is a very large ship with a crew of about 1300 at the time. He had many years of learning on getting them back to sea. Not something you learn in a big hurry.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Train carrying scrap iron in Stone Mountain, circa 1941. The sign near the front of the engine says “More Coal to Burn Hitler and Japs.”

Sweet Jesus, that is a ancient locomotive-even for 1943. My family home is in Clarkston, not to far from Stone Mountain. The Civil War era house is still there. It is called Forty Oaks and is a city park and nature preserve.

[Capt Hornblower]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Rear Admiral Richard E. Hawes talks with an old friend on Jackson Street in Thompson soon after returning home from service in the Pacific Theater (circa 1946). Hawes was a Thomson native and had attended both the University of Georgia and Mercer. He enlisted in the Navy in 1917. During his time in the service, he received the Navy Cross twice and held various commands including the USS Pigeon (minesweeper), USS Chanticleer (submarine tender), and USS Antheadon (submarine tender). He passed away in Thomson in 1968 at age 74.

Maybe he became a Rear Admiral later, but in this pic, Mr. Hawes is a Lieutenant Commander. (Oops, sorry, should've gone thru all the posts.)

[Capt Hornblower]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The folks at home didn’t forget that all the work and sacrifice and worry was for the troops and sailors and airmen at the front. One such was Jack Kirksey of Reynolds, Taylor County, Georgia, photographed here circa 1940. Kirksey served with John F. Kennedy aboard PT-109. He was killed in action August 1, 1943, when PT-109 was rammed by the Japanese destroyer Amigiri in the Solomon Islands.

You might want to check the spelling of Amigiri-- I think it might be Amagiri. Also, I clicked on the link to frigate in Wikipedia, and I noticed the article has a pronounce British slant. There's also not one mention of FFG-7s, of which the Hawes is one.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks, gents, for the gentle corrections and additional information.

I have a question.  Why wouldn't a guy like this - who had shown bravery and ingenuity under fire - been promoted to a larger command, such as destroyers or capital ships?  He seemed to be a well-recognized leader, but he remains in command of sub tenders throughout the war.  Does that suggest there was anything "negative" about his leadership or capabilities?  Or could there be other and completely inoccuous reasons?

(With no military background whatsoever, I am clueless about these things.  If even asking the question gives offense ot military folks, pardon me and attribute it to my ignorance.)

See the part in bold:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
"“Spittin’ Dick” Hawes had already become a legend among submariners. He had a reputation of superb loyalty to subordinates and was known for his ingenuity with men and the materials at hand.

Standing up for subordinates is just another way of saying that he told folks higher up the chain to leave them the hell alone, and that doesn't play well come promotion time. Plus "ingenuity with men and materials" simply says he was a scrounger and and a rule breaker par excellence. I can say from personal experience in both the military and working for a large commercial enterprise, that superiors often aren't thrilled with "mavericks", and this guy was that, if ever there was one. Makes me love him all the more, but there's usually a career price to be paid when you operate this way.

[DOCUP]

Kull very true. But its men and women who were SFC's (Scroungers First Class) that kept/keep the military moving forward. They do pay a price but most that I have seen and known didn't care as long as the job got done.

CR nice thread anymore.