Modding China Terrain

[Blackhorse]

Most importantly, the entire basin between Hankow, Changsha, Ichang and Nanyang is one giant wet, overflowing rice bowl tilted towards Hankow, with every hex criss-crossed by rice paddies, lakes, river channels and swamps. On Google earth the region looks like a giant mudflat, even today with the Three Gorges dam taming the upper Yangtze.

. . . and, as if to prove this point, Chinese media reported this week that a four-mile stretch of the new high-speed rail line being built between Wuhan (Hankow) and Ichang will have to be rebuilt, because the original line is sinking into a swampy morass.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


The diverted Hwang Ho (Yellow River):
This was already discussed, and nicely mapped by derp. But although both sides of the river flooded in IRL, putting AE-sized swamp hexes on both sides grossly overstates the affected flooded area. The effect would perhaps be more accurately portrayed in AE by having swamp hexes only to the left/lower side of the Yellow River, from Chengchow (inclusive) through Pengpu and Hwaiyin to the coast at (94,50).

Also, the flooding severed all rail and road connections across the Hwang Ho from Chengchow to the sea, except the RR from Chengchow NE towards Anyang. All of the new 'flooded' hexes should have roads or trails running back to connect with any non-swamp hexes behind them, but there would be no connections across the river (except the Chengchow-Anyang RR)

This is important because IRL, the Chengting-Anyang-Kaifeng RR ran through Chengchow to get to Kaifeng. There should be no rail connection SE from (88,43) to Kaifeng. [The rail spur from (88,43) NW to Tsiaotso is accurately portrayed]. To align AE with WR, shift Kaifeng and the IJA units there to (88,45). There would be no RR in the old Kaifeng hex, and the RR from (88,45) would run through (89,45) to Kweiteh. Because of the deliberate flooding, the RR does not connect between Kaifeng and Chengchow. There would be a RR in Kaifeng facing NW towards Chengchow, but there would be no RR heading SE in Chengchow.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

"You Can't Get There From Here"

WR has three times as many hexes as AE, but fewer roads. This limits the available axis of advance, especially in three important areas:



2. The Road to Nowhere

Another difference in WR is that Nanyang is a cul-de-sac. There is only a road from Hankow, through the swamps/ rice paddies to Nanyang. There is no road from Sinying, and most importantly no roads from Nanyang towards Ankang or Sian. Although Loyang itself is in clear terrain, all the other hexes between Loyang and Nanyang are 'rough' -- steep ravines in WR.

[Blackhorse]

Hey Spider,

Where are your maps from, and what year? The most topical maps I could find on-line (US Army, 1954 1:250,000 scale) only show the Lunghai line running from Cheng-shien through Kaifeng to the east. The other connecting line to Hsin-siang apparently hadn't been built yet, or had been destroyed. (Or, the US Army map was wrong. Not that I've ever seen that before

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


The diverted Hwang Ho (Yellow River):
This was already discussed, and nicely mapped by derp. But although both sides of the river flooded in IRL, putting AE-sized swamp hexes on both sides grossly overstates the affected flooded area. The effect would perhaps be more accurately portrayed in AE by having swamp hexes only to the left/lower side of the Yellow River, from Chengchow (inclusive) through Pengpu and Hwaiyin to the coast at (94,50).

Also, the flooding severed all rail and road connections across the Hwang Ho from Chengchow to the sea, except the RR from Chengchow NE towards Anyang. All of the new 'flooded' hexes should have roads or trails running back to connect with any non-swamp hexes behind them, but there would be no connections across the river (except the Chengchow-Anyang RR)

This is important because IRL, the Chengting-Anyang-Kaifeng RR ran through Chengchow to get to Kaifeng. There should be no rail connection SE from (88,43) to Kaifeng. [The rail spur from (88,43) NW to Tsiaotso is accurately portrayed]. To align AE with WR, shift Kaifeng and the IJA units there to (88,45). There would be no RR in the old Kaifeng hex, and the RR from (88,45) would run through (89,45) to Kweiteh. Because of the deliberate flooding, the RR does not connect between Kaifeng and Chengchow. There would be a RR in Kaifeng facing NW towards Chengchow, but there would be no RR heading SE in Chengchow.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


Hey Spider,

Where are your maps from, and what year? The most topical maps I could find on-line (US Army, 1954 1:250,000 scale) only show the Lunghai line running from Cheng-shien through Kaifeng to the east. The other connecting line to Hsin-siang apparently hadn't been built yet, or had been destroyed. (Or, the US Army map was wrong. Not that I've ever seen that before

Maps are 1943 or 1944ish (IIRC) I've got a photo of the key at the house. I've posted a copy of it here years ago. They are maintained at the map library at the university of tennessee. I took photos of the paper maps for my collection. By the way the dashed rail lines mean they were destroyed.

The real interesting ones they have I believe are actually captured Japanese aviation maps with locations of airfields. Unfortunately I can't read Japanese...however i was able to decipher some of the symbols by comparing to comparable english ones...I'll post samples later when i get home.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


Hey Spider,

Where are your maps from, and what year? The most topical maps I could find on-line (US Army, 1954 1:250,000 scale) only show the Lunghai line running from Cheng-shien through Kaifeng to the east. The other connecting line to Hsin-siang apparently hadn't been built yet, or had been destroyed. (Or, the US Army map was wrong. Not that I've ever seen that before

Maps are 1943 or 1944ish (IIRC) I've got a photo of the key at the house. I've posted a copy of it here years ago. They are maintained at the map library at the university of tennessee. I took photos of the paper maps for my collection. By the way the dashed rail lines mean they were destroyed.

The real interesting ones they have I believe are actually captured Japanese aviation maps with locations of airfields. Unfortunately I can't read Japanese...however i was able to decipher some of the symbols by comparing to comparable english ones...I'll post samples later when i get home.

Here we go..

[treespider]

Here is a sample of one of the Japanese maps i mentioned earlier...this is the Kaifeng area...

[Mac Linehan]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

A few observations about terrain in China after sorting through the maps and the rules of the old GR/D board game War of Resistance, about the fighting in China from 1937 through December, 1941.

Very interesting! I didn't have access to those maps, but I would like to have had.

I may (when time permits) make some changes to my extended map to account for some of the things that you mention. Any other things on the maps that stand out as being different?

Thanks,
Andrew

Andrew -

It is Sunday evening, am just about to shut down for the week.

I would like to make sure that you are aware of how awesome your extended set of maps are, and how much they add to AE gameplay.

You, Sir, are the Map Man. <grin>

Blackhorse, et al -

Outstanding attention to geographical reality and detail. Am very excited by the modded AE maps of China (and the historical samples also!).

Do hope that all of you continue to pursue this project. Am hoping that the Babes Team will take an interest... <A shameless attempt at subliminal hinting - but hey, it's worth a try!>

elcid -

I have always loved the riverine warfare craft aspect in RHS...

Mac

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: treespider

Here is a sample of one of the Japanese maps i mentioned earlier...this is the Kaifeng area...

This looks like a Chinese map with Japanese notes overwritten on it giving direction and distance to differing points. The underlying map is very similar to some that I have. The way the notes read, this looks like an aviators map. Could be wrong on that though. Some of the overprint got smudged. Kinda interesting to see that in that area at that time, the magnetic north and true north only differed by 3 degrees and change.

[treespider]

Pax,

Here is part of the map key for one of the "aviator maps"...care to translate?

[treespider]

and the rest of the key...although I do not believe this is too legible.

[el cid again]

This does appear to be an aviation chart.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: treespider

Here is a sample of one of the Japanese maps i mentioned earlier...this is the Kaifeng area...

This looks like a Chinese map with Japanese notes overwritten on it giving direction and distance to differing points. The underlying map is very similar to some that I have. The way the notes read, this looks like an aviators map. Could be wrong on that though. Some of the overprint got smudged. Kinda interesting to see that in that area at that time, the magnetic north and true north only differed by 3 degrees and change.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

"You Can't Get There From Here"

WR has three times as many hexes as AE, but fewer roads. This limits the available axis of advance, especially in three important areas:

The Shield Wall

1. In WR, the coast from the Vietnam border to Wenchow, is very much like the wilds of the India-Burma border in AE. Ranging from Chuhsien to almost Kahnsien, there is an imposing series of mountain ridges, the Wu Yi Shan, mostly between 1000 and 1500 meters high, running parallel to the coast unpenetrated by any roads.

The terrain and lack of roads force the Japanese to attack either end of the rail line (through Nanning to Liuchow, or from the Yangtze towards Changsa) or to follow a single route from Canton to Kuking.

There may be merit to these restrictions. My trusty, well-thumbed, Lonely Planet travel guide says of this region, “For centuries it was isolated from the rest of China by its mountainous topography,” and, “while the coastal cities have been engaging in trade for hundreds of years, its mountainous interior remained inaccessible until as late as the 1960s, when the communists built roads through the dense jungle.”

To add insult to injury, in WR the monsoon/growing season in this part of China runs from February through November. For 10 months each year the irrigated areas along the coast are an impassable gumbo.

2. The Road to Nowhere

Another difference in WR is that Nanyang is a cul-de-sac. There is only a road from Hankow, through the swamps/ rice paddies to Nanyang. There is no road from Sinying, and most importantly no roads from Nanyang towards Ankang or Sian. Although Loyang itself is in clear terrain, all the other hexes between Loyang and Nanyang are 'rough' -- steep ravines in WR.

3. The Bridge to Nowhere

The first bridge over the Yangtze was not built until 1957. That is reflected in WR, there are "rail ferries" at Nanking and Hankow that slow RR movement slightly, but no roads cross the river.

No doubt you refer to the Great Bridge at Nanking - built in 1956 - and somewhat to the surprise of Russian consultant engineers, who didn't think the Chicoms were up to it. From then until the great projects of the last few years - there were no bridges across down river - although the PLA has bridged in exercises using military modular bridges in very brief times. The river was always navigable to ocean ships all the way to Wuhan - which had a seagoing ship type construction yard since the 19th century. It remains a navigable river upstream to beyond Chunking - but just after Wuhan the great gorge region begins - and the river is more than an ordinary military obsticle. I simulate this by blocked hex sides more or less parallel to the river on the North or East side of the watercourse. But the big thing that the river is the most important line of communications in China - although one does not use ocean ships above Wuhan - which is three cities separated by rivers all in the same neighborhood - a massive urban complex - and in older times - three walled cities. The Yellow River is often almost as important - in particular due to its length and the absense of roads and rail lines where it goes - it is the main way to get resources and other things moving - or military units. But during the war the real significance of the lower flooded area is that this area is no longer navigable, and the river is isolated from the sea. Both rivers are often connected - and are again today - by the Grand Canal - and a bit of it is on the map too. But this also was sabotaged during the war - and you could not use the lower end (to the bay below Shanghai) nor the upper end (To Peking). Time was (and again today) one could travel on the river/canal system over vast distances. Or move economically significant things. Even so, the Yellow River ought to be a major LOC in the inerior - and the Yangtze remains as it always was - the biggest single transportation asset in China. There are different ways to represent that - but none are present in stock.