Wild Sheep Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Hi obvert,

In all this time I've never really paid any attention to the flow of fuel/oil and resources from Singapore to Fusan. I'll start paying more attention and see if I can add anything to your discussion. I have lots of fuel (300k+) sitting at Singapore, but don't try and draw any via Bangkok, Saigon, Hong Kong or Shanghai. I'll play around and see if I can come up with something.

That's great. The more info the better. It might even be in your tracker info if you use that looking at one place you already draw from to see if it's filling up more than it was early in the war.

[Captain Cruft]

You do know that the 800kg bomb carrying dive bombers are Kamikaze only aircraft? I realise the game allows you to use them normally but I wouldn't do it. Not cricket ...

[Historiker]

Am I correct that turning off "upgrades" at the R&D factories means they stay R&D when the plane is available? I put my R&D on "no" to be able advancing later models with the same factories as well.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Am I correct that turning off "upgrades" at the R&D factories means they stay R&D when the plane is available? I put my R&D on "no" to be able advancing later models with the same factories as well.

Yes, that's right.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

You do know that the 800kg bomb carrying dive bombers are Kamikaze only aircraft? I realise the game allows you to use them normally but I wouldn't do it. Not cricket ...

I do realize that's how they were designed and implemented. Since I've decided not to push toward these in R n D anyway, by that time I should be able to kill my pilots intentionally and in droves. [:)]

I would think the Grace should be able to be used in standard attacks carrying the 800 kg bomb if it will load that.

That said, if it comes to that point, and I feel the need to do it, I would have a conversation with my opponent to see how he feels about it. The really fun part of the game is to adapt standard weapons to uses and missions they were never given during the war. As you've discovered I thnk!

[SqzMyLemon]

Hi obvert,

Just wanted to point out something I just realized in my AAR. Since hitting 1943 the HI expenditure for my pilot training has increased from around 19500/month to around 24000/month. If you are looking at reaching a certain surplus by a certain date don't forget to factor this in. I'm guessing it will only get worse if pilot training pools continue to increase over the course of the war. This potentially makes the benefits of TRACOM more important. The more pilots you can accelerate through the pipeline may reduce the HI expenditure over the long term. Not exactly sure if that's how it works, but that's my guess.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Hi obvert,

Just wanted to point out something I just realized in my AAR. Since hitting 1943 the HI expenditure for my pilot training has increased from around 19500/month to around 24000/month. If you are looking at reaching a certain surplus by a certain date don't forget to factor this in. I'm guessing it will only get worse if pilot training pools continue to increase over the course of the war. This potentially makes the benefits of TRACOM more important. The more pilots you can accelerate through the pipeline may reduce the HI expenditure over the long term. Not exactly sure if that's how it works, but that's my guess.

Good points, thanks. I think TRACOM does do that, decreasing the amount in training in theory by releasing them early, missing the payment at the end of the month. Or something like that.

I've only really begun to calculate this year, as it's so hard to predict how much I'll be using in 43 and how much I can increase with Chinese acquisitions and building more HI in Singapore, Soerabaja, Batavia and Saigon.

As it looks like I could have China for some time to come, I might consider even breaking 'the Rule' and increasing LI. There are plenty of resources and this would make China both self-sufficient and potentially an exporter of supply. I might minimally raise other areas like Java, the PI, and Malaya as well, since those will be around for the two year turn-around time it takes for costs to be made-up. It's really an investment for the defense in the future though, potentially, so that less shipping has to move around later in the game. We'll see. Still considering these ideas.

[SqzMyLemon]

I agree on the LI expansion as well. I'm definitely going to look at doing that in my next game to some degree. Whether it is in the Home Islands or China has yet to be determined.

[Historiker]

I only have a surplus of 5k ressources. [X(] I don't consider that this much, and I'd rather reduce my LI!

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I only have a surplus of 5k ressources. [X(] I don't consider that this much, and I'd rather reduce my LI!

ha ha! Sorry! I think the late start doesn't probably assume the number of CS convoys I've been running! I'm getting a month or so away from reducing both Hokkaido and Sakhalin to less than 50,000 resources at any given time. I have to STOP several convoys soon or there will be no resources for them to pick up.

Also I've been running convoys to Nauru and Ocean plus small bases in the DEI to major ports. When troops and supply convoys arrive, they go back with resources. I haven't even had to worry about how much I'm sending because I'm sending back far too much.

All of the is from reading Mike Solli's AAR just as I was beginning the game. Good timing. He of course figures out the exact amount needed and calculates the ships to run that amount. I just run as much as I can.

[Historiker]

5k plus is only 150k per month - taken I get everything home and nothing is sunk under way. Looking at the consumption, I rather have a few hundred thousand ressources already home. Ressources can't be bombed and they don't spoil, so that's my choice.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

5k plus is only 150k per month - taken I get everything home and nothing is sunk under way. Looking at the consumption, I rather have a few hundred thousand ressources already home. Ressources can't be bombed and they don't spoil, so that's my choice.

Ahh. I misunderstood, didn't read carefully. 150k per month over in total.

In China there are a lot of good resource centers not hard to conquer. Especially once you clear the East there is Pingsiang, with 120 resources. That should top you up. But most of the Chinese cities you'll take early will have extra.

[Dan Nichols]

My view on Light Industry. I think that most competent Japanese players will stay afloat until the end of 1945. It takes 1000 days to recoup your supply expenditure for repairing a LI. This assumes that it is not bombed or captured before the end of 1945. That would seem that any LI repaired before 1 April 1943 would be a break even expenditure. So, LI repaired during 1942 will generate more supply that it took to repair them. Again, given a good push in China ( which obvert is doing ) most of the LI that is captured damaged can be repaired and most likely will be available until very late into the game. You could also expand LI on the home islands for some additional cost. Just some food for thought.

[PaxMondo]

What Dan says, except note that you don't get the payback until '45.  I don't have supply issues in '45, I have them in '42.  So I don't expend any supply repairing LI.  Ever.  Or resource centers. Never.
 
Oil - YES, almost always.  Burma is an exception if I don't go for India at least as far as Calcutta.
HI - Usually
 

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

My view on Light Industry. I think that most competent Japanese players will stay afloat until the end of 1945. It takes 1000 days to recoup your supply expenditure for repairing a LI. This assumes that it is not bombed or captured before the end of 1945. That would seem that any LI repaired before 1 April 1943 would be a break even expenditure. So, LI repaired during 1942 will generate more supply that it took to repair them. Again, given a good push in China ( which obvert is doing ) most of the LI that is captured damaged can be repaired and most likely will be available until very late into the game. You could also expand LI on the home islands for some additional cost. Just some food for thought.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

What Dan says, except note that you don't get the payback until '45.  I don't have supply issues in '45, I have them in '42.  So I don't expend any supply repairing LI.  Ever.  Or resource centers. Never.

Oil - YES, almost always.  Burma is an exception if I don't go for India at least as far as Calcutta.
HI - Usually

While I haven't played that far yet I can imagine that supply wouldn't be as much of a problem later in the game in a global sense.

The idea I'm playing with is to make each area more self-reliant and able to generate supply for defensive purposes without using as many major convoys from the HI, which waste both fuel and ships in the process.

As Pax notes, though, I am always right on the brink in terms of supply so far in the war. This beginning phase is so fast paced and supply intensive with all of the repairs to R n D and industry.

I will definitely increase HI. This is just good policy for Japan in areas with plentiful fuel and resources.

I might repair or slightly increase LI in select areas that have an over-abundance of local resources and which should be still part of the empire during the next three years.

I will not increase damaged resources.

I will repair and max all oil in the Empire.

I may fix damaged refineries in select locations. Tarakan has been fixed. Miri will not be fixed. (All others have been captured largely intact, which is very lucky! Of course at some point this could change with 4E bombing, notably in Burma).

This is all an experiment, but of course the comments of those who have played into 45 are so helpful. It really is hard to imagine what will happen and plan for that now. But of course this is close to real life, and I like the uncertainty and multiple possible paths to choose from. So much depends not only on what I choose, but what my opponent decides as well, so a sense of complete control is really unachievable. Yet decisions must be made. So many choices ...

And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought

[Historiker]

Increasing LI in areas where you need supplies is something completly different. Not being forced to ship supplies has its own quality and worth. IF I were to repair any LI or even increase it, China were the only place for this to happen!

HI is increased wherever suitable, of course

[koniu]

How do you manage to have 4,7M fuel in June 42.
I do not remember but did japan do not start with somewhere around ~5M reserve.
that will mean that you droop only with 300k.

Correct me if i wrong?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: koniu

How do you manage to have 4,7M fuel in June 42.
I do not remember but did japan do not start with somewhere around ~5M reserve.
that will mean that you droop only with 300k.

Correct me if i wrong?

I captured a good amount of fuel at Singapore, Palembang, Balikpapan and other spots due to quick strong invasions and a bit of luck I think. Tarakan was the only major oil/refinery base captured with a lot of damage other than Miri, but is repaired fully now. Miri is on the way (Oil only), I'm producing in Rangoon and Magwe at full capacity with no bombing from 4Es yet. Both major Chinese Oil/refinery bases have been captured at Sian and Lanchow.

I've also continually shipped to the HI refineries, even though that probably isn't part of the equation yet as the surplus would still be getting refined there if I hadn't.

Something else that may be helping is that I use Fusan exclusively to ship from Manchuria. So all of my CS convoys travel two hexes back and forth rather than 15-20.

Other than that I can't say how I have so much. I didn't even realize I did have a lot. [:)]

In spite of a couple of big runs into the South Pacific and around Perth most of my combat ships have not needed to sortie, especially the fuel sucking BBs. I have run through the original allotment at Truk, but have only shipped another 50-70k there so far, and about the same to Kaweijalen, Rabaul, and now Tulagi.

Here is the tracker global view of stockpiles. Looking at this I must be refining a lot as oil has dropped significantly since the beginning of the game.

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[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]The Global View[/font]
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I'm still not good at using tracker to chow particular spots and isolate what is happening in regions. I use it for more of a global check-up. This may be because in previous games I didn't use it at all and had to get a feeling for the big numbers and what to look out for in terms of economic problems.

I'd love to learn now something about how to isolate a region like China and see how self-sufficient it is, what is surplus and what is needed in smaller areas. Maybe during Jocke's next vacation I can work on that.

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[Historiker]

Something else that may be helping is that I use Fusan exclusively to ship from Manchuria. So all of my CS convoys travel two hexes back and forth rather than 15-20.

How do you manage that the Machurian ressources come to fusan? Mine all flow to Port Arthur.