Alfred, yes I have confused you.
The LCU that was north of Kukong didn't make it into Kukong. It was kicked out of the hex north of Kukong. When a Jap LCU came into it. Now I still have the SW hex to retreat to, but It has 2 Jap units in it. I am thinking that it is better to stay in Kukong with the 7k of supply and 6 forts. I am tieing up around 6 IDs and a bunch of other units in this area.
9th June
KB unknown
MKB unknown
Timor AO
Koniu sweeps Samulaki and Lautem. He shots down 26 P40Es and Kitty Ia's. We down 19 Zeros. Lautem has Jap mines in the hex now. But I have a sweeper picking those up as we speak. I think Koniu is getting ready to reinforce Ambon. He hasn't attacked or bombarded Ambon for a few days. I bet hes out of of supplies.
Kendri
180 fighters with 130 bombers and 128 aux. I am thinking of unleasing my 4Es now. What do you guys think. Its a lv 4 AF so he has to be overstacked.
Tahiti
Jap sub makes it into the harbor and sinks 2 empty xAKs. It didn't hit one mine[:@][:@][:@]. ASW didn't do anything either.
Shwebo
We attack the 16th recon unit again. Its now retreating from the this hex.
ENLIST TODAY (Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) No Koniu
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Operation Dumbo
Alfred, I know you must have doubts, but I believe it has sunk in. Danke!
Joe, Alfred, Any good threads on paradrops? I've never done it and I may have a chance to cut off some IJA formations and force the the IJA 15th Army to draw more troops into Burma or at least move some of the 65ooo-+ off the coast. I'm all ears. Joe your tempo with this game is high and I suspect the Emperor did not expect so many counters to his objectives. It is a very interesting conflict; which is why I chose to peek at the other side. This might sound a little OT, but I think your style of play, would unbalance Nemo, so long as you maintained solid mechanics with brash daring do. 2 cents from the peanut gallery. OH YEAH, Ive been taking deliveries of this beauty on Yorktown.
Joe, Alfred, Any good threads on paradrops? I've never done it and I may have a chance to cut off some IJA formations and force the the IJA 15th Army to draw more troops into Burma or at least move some of the 65ooo-+ off the coast. I'm all ears. Joe your tempo with this game is high and I suspect the Emperor did not expect so many counters to his objectives. It is a very interesting conflict; which is why I chose to peek at the other side. This might sound a little OT, but I think your style of play, would unbalance Nemo, so long as you maintained solid mechanics with brash daring do. 2 cents from the peanut gallery. OH YEAH, Ive been taking deliveries of this beauty on Yorktown.
- Attachments
-
- hellcat.jpg (333.1 KiB) Viewed 189 times
RE: Operation Dumbo
ORIGINAL: zuluhour
... Joe, Alfred, Any good threads on paradrops? I've never done it and I may have a chance to cut off some IJA formations and force the the IJA 15th Army to draw more troops into Burma or at least move some of the 65ooo-+ off the coast. I'm all ears...
This is a subject which regularly comes up but IMHO there is no really good comprehensive thread on the subject. Nothing like LoBaron's air coordination sticky or like one of my 101 threads. And before you even ask, no I don't envisage having any time soon to prepare a comprehensive 101 guide on this topic. I currently lack the time to properly revise my existing 101 guides and the AE Grandmaster thread and they have a higher priority.
When the subject is raised, more often than not it quickly falls into a "is it gamey" discourse.
The actual mechanics of dropping paras is really not that difficult. Just be certain that:
1. The unit in question is really a parachute unit. Don't just rely on its name. Check the unit symbol and description, and
2. You have read s.7.2.4 of the manual
That being said I think you might the following thread to be of more use than reading another is it gamey focussed thread on paradrops.
tm.asp?m=2596733&mpage=1&key=paradrop�
If you really want more, there is a 3 year old thread before the release of AE which might be of benefit. It however quickly dropped within its 3 pages into a discussion of real world paradrop doctrine. Interesting but of limited value regarding the game itself other than canvassing what is gamey or not.
Also closely related is the question of airplane capacity. You can do a search on several of my posts regarding that issue.
If more info is required, I suggest providing additional data in the respective AAR.
Alfred
RE: Operation Dumbo
DOCUP,
If now understand you correctly now, you are now surrounded on all sides and if defeated in battle at Kukong, resulting in losing the base, the entire Kukong garrison will be forced to surrender. Under those circumstances you may as well hunker down in Kukong. Afterall, if you are surrounded on all sides, are out of ammunition and both your left and right flanks have disintegrated, you are in perfect condition to attack.[:D]
1. The amount of supply in Kukong will suffice for 1-2 months. Add in the organic supply carried by the defenders themselves gives you roughly another month.
2. Subject to any combat and air strikes which can speed up the consumption alarmingly, it might be some 4 months before your Kukong garrison is completely out of supply.
3. Once totally out of supply, your 1600 AV garrison is adjusted down to 400 AV. Add in level 6 forts (which may have been dropped during the siege, perhaps to zero) the next adjustment brings up the AV to 900 AV. Then there is the further upward adjustment provided by terrain.
I would expect 6 category one Japanese divisions to be able to defeat your Kukong garrison. However that is a lot of quality Japanese troops which are not available for use elsewhere and it affords you a good opportunity in the meantime to do something useful with the Chinese army both locally by sending a relief column and at the same time elsewhere. However just sitting in Kukong and remaining passive elsewhere would not be a good idea.
The time bought at Kukong must be utilised elsewhere. Perhaps a drive on Pakhoi using the units to the southwest of Nanning. A port would allow you to send in supply via subs. It can also provide you with some naval search to greatly aid your sub hunting program.
Alfred
If now understand you correctly now, you are now surrounded on all sides and if defeated in battle at Kukong, resulting in losing the base, the entire Kukong garrison will be forced to surrender. Under those circumstances you may as well hunker down in Kukong. Afterall, if you are surrounded on all sides, are out of ammunition and both your left and right flanks have disintegrated, you are in perfect condition to attack.[:D]
1. The amount of supply in Kukong will suffice for 1-2 months. Add in the organic supply carried by the defenders themselves gives you roughly another month.
2. Subject to any combat and air strikes which can speed up the consumption alarmingly, it might be some 4 months before your Kukong garrison is completely out of supply.
3. Once totally out of supply, your 1600 AV garrison is adjusted down to 400 AV. Add in level 6 forts (which may have been dropped during the siege, perhaps to zero) the next adjustment brings up the AV to 900 AV. Then there is the further upward adjustment provided by terrain.
I would expect 6 category one Japanese divisions to be able to defeat your Kukong garrison. However that is a lot of quality Japanese troops which are not available for use elsewhere and it affords you a good opportunity in the meantime to do something useful with the Chinese army both locally by sending a relief column and at the same time elsewhere. However just sitting in Kukong and remaining passive elsewhere would not be a good idea.
The time bought at Kukong must be utilised elsewhere. Perhaps a drive on Pakhoi using the units to the southwest of Nanning. A port would allow you to send in supply via subs. It can also provide you with some naval search to greatly aid your sub hunting program.
Alfred
RE: Operation Dumbo
Alfred, I am trying a diversion at Wuchow. I am now ordering recon flights over Pakhoi. A large force is begining to move towards Kukong. You are a smart one.[:D]
Zulu, Thanks for the comment about unhinging the emperors objectives. I hope that is right. Unbalanceing Nemo, don't know. But I do agree with him you must do some unconventional things to keep your opponent honest. I miss his AARs. "Those who dare, win" I actually think the tempo is low. I think I am playing a little on the safe side. Once I get use to the game mechanics, units and such I will probably be more aggressive. I know in the begining that I was throwing Koniu off his plans. Now not so sure that. But thinking about it, it is about time for a crazy Ivan.
So let the steal rain fall over Kendri. 82 4Es are ordered to fly tomorrow.
Zulu, Thanks for the comment about unhinging the emperors objectives. I hope that is right. Unbalanceing Nemo, don't know. But I do agree with him you must do some unconventional things to keep your opponent honest. I miss his AARs. "Those who dare, win" I actually think the tempo is low. I think I am playing a little on the safe side. Once I get use to the game mechanics, units and such I will probably be more aggressive. I know in the begining that I was throwing Koniu off his plans. Now not so sure that. But thinking about it, it is about time for a crazy Ivan.
So let the steal rain fall over Kendri. 82 4Es are ordered to fly tomorrow.
RE: Operation Dumbo
So let the steal rain fall over Kendri.
"let them pray"
RE: Operation Dumbo
10th June
KB unknown
MKB unknown
Pago Pago
An I boat takes 3 hits. Still no mine hits.
China
More bombings.
Kendri
Steel rain. 40 some Zeros are destroyed 6 in the air and the rest on the ground. 15 Bettys and 11 Nells are destroyed on the ground. We lose 13 B17Es and 3 LB 30s. 31 hits on the AF are seen. Intel says 112 fighters are left with 80 bombers and 40 aux. We will attack tomorrow. This time we will bomb from higher Alt. Koniu had his fighter 68 of them stacked from 4k to 17k. I am surprised he had some CAP up.
I am away from my computer, so some of my numbers may be off.
KB unknown
MKB unknown
Pago Pago
An I boat takes 3 hits. Still no mine hits.
China
More bombings.
Kendri
Steel rain. 40 some Zeros are destroyed 6 in the air and the rest on the ground. 15 Bettys and 11 Nells are destroyed on the ground. We lose 13 B17Es and 3 LB 30s. 31 hits on the AF are seen. Intel says 112 fighters are left with 80 bombers and 40 aux. We will attack tomorrow. This time we will bomb from higher Alt. Koniu had his fighter 68 of them stacked from 4k to 17k. I am surprised he had some CAP up.
I am away from my computer, so some of my numbers may be off.
RE: Operation Dumbo
Having mutiple minefields is better than having a larger single minefield. There is no difference in the rate of mine decay between having a single and multiple minefields at the same location.
If you have say, 3 subs loaded with 60 mines in aggregate, you are better off sending 3 separate sub minelaying TF to the same destination than sending a single sub minelaying TF which contains all three subs. Although the three minefields are sized only 20 mines each, enemy ships will have to run the minefield gauntlet algorithm three times.
Alfred
If you have say, 3 subs loaded with 60 mines in aggregate, you are better off sending 3 separate sub minelaying TF to the same destination than sending a single sub minelaying TF which contains all three subs. Although the three minefields are sized only 20 mines each, enemy ships will have to run the minefield gauntlet algorithm three times.
Alfred
RE: Operation Dumbo
Nice to know that Alfred. Wish I would of known that a turn ago. Oh well live and learn.
I am nervous for the next few turns. I have this bad feeling that my amphib TF is going to get slaughtered at Ambon. I can see the ships getting bombed, when I sleep. Is that a bad thing. I am bringing in as many fighters as I can. I need supplies at Ambon bad.
I am nervous for the next few turns. I have this bad feeling that my amphib TF is going to get slaughtered at Ambon. I can see the ships getting bombed, when I sleep. Is that a bad thing. I am bringing in as many fighters as I can. I need supplies at Ambon bad.
RE: Operation Dumbo
]
enemy ships will have to run the minefield gauntlet algorithm three times.
Stricky note!!
RE: Operation Dumbo
Only have the combat replay for this turn till tomorrow.
11th June
KB unknown
MKB unknown
Cyleon
We hit a sub 3 times no critical or major hits.
Burma
The Japs bomb our Rangoon forces moving towards Akyab. We damage over 30 planes by AA.
Pago Pago
A Jap sub takes 3 light hits. Later another sub(or same not for sure will have to rewatch the replay) took 11 hits with heavy damage 2 critical hits severe engine damage with lots of flooding messages.[:D][:D][:D]
Luganville
2 waves of Nells come in or an attack. Our fighters shoot down atleast 12 of them, they didn't even make it to attack my TFs.[:D]
Kendri
DD sent in ahead of my bombardment TF scares away the ASW TF, then meets a Jap SAG on the way out. 1 BB and a bunch of DDs. Oh crap. The lone DD stood her ground and hit a Jap BB. There was a CL in this but it was TTed by a Jap sub yesterday. Next came our Bombardment group with 3 CAs and 3DDs. They suprise the Jap SAG. At the end of the battle. 3 Jap DDs sunk 2 on fire with the BB taking a deck armor hit from the CA San Fran. San Fran takes 4 hits, CA Canberra takes 2 hits as does 2 DDs.
Our CV TF runs into a lone DD. It is pummeled by our CV TF. Even the CVs put some rounds into her. One CV takes a deck armor hit.
Off Hawaii the CA that was hit by a Jap TT was sunk by the same sub.
11th June
KB unknown
MKB unknown
Cyleon
We hit a sub 3 times no critical or major hits.
Burma
The Japs bomb our Rangoon forces moving towards Akyab. We damage over 30 planes by AA.
Pago Pago
A Jap sub takes 3 light hits. Later another sub(or same not for sure will have to rewatch the replay) took 11 hits with heavy damage 2 critical hits severe engine damage with lots of flooding messages.[:D][:D][:D]
Luganville
2 waves of Nells come in or an attack. Our fighters shoot down atleast 12 of them, they didn't even make it to attack my TFs.[:D]
Kendri
DD sent in ahead of my bombardment TF scares away the ASW TF, then meets a Jap SAG on the way out. 1 BB and a bunch of DDs. Oh crap. The lone DD stood her ground and hit a Jap BB. There was a CL in this but it was TTed by a Jap sub yesterday. Next came our Bombardment group with 3 CAs and 3DDs. They suprise the Jap SAG. At the end of the battle. 3 Jap DDs sunk 2 on fire with the BB taking a deck armor hit from the CA San Fran. San Fran takes 4 hits, CA Canberra takes 2 hits as does 2 DDs.
Our CV TF runs into a lone DD. It is pummeled by our CV TF. Even the CVs put some rounds into her. One CV takes a deck armor hit.
Off Hawaii the CA that was hit by a Jap TT was sunk by the same sub.
- Attachments
-
- kendriba.jpg (308.26 KiB) Viewed 189 times
RE: Operation Dumbo
Koniu stated in his email. More British carriers sailing to meet there destination in the Timor sea area. Today was a bloody day on the sea but not as bloody as the next few. Hmm Maybe he has some carriers in the area.
This SAG seems wierd to me. Lots of DDs with only one capital ship. What is its mission?
So what are his next moves. Will he send the SAG out to look for my TFs? Is there a CV TF close by?
Should I withdraw my TFs back to safer waters? Hmmm things to think about tonite before I get the turn back.
This SAG seems wierd to me. Lots of DDs with only one capital ship. What is its mission?
So what are his next moves. Will he send the SAG out to look for my TFs? Is there a CV TF close by?
Should I withdraw my TFs back to safer waters? Hmmm things to think about tonite before I get the turn back.
RE: Operation Dumbo
Interesting day. Why was it interesting you ask. I will tell you why. Not one attack by the Japanese. No not one no bombings, sweeps, bombardments or anything.
14th June
KB unknown
MKB unknown
Our ASW attacked 6 different times this turn. 5 of the getting hits. All were light hits.
One of our subs hits an AK with a live TT.
Kendri
AF attack by us. We destroy 2 Bettys and one recon plane on the ground with 27 runway hits. Intel says Kendri has 50 runway damage. Bombers are going in again againist the AF and port. SAG is missing this turn.
Ambon
Tomorrow troops and supplies will start unloading at Ambon. Air cover will be provided by Brit CVs and Beau fighters. I just noticed that Namlea is an AF 2 and its still in our hands. I am rushing AV support there with supplies to open up another AF to cover our ships. This base will also provide a base close enough to do sweeps of Kendri if and when Koniu gets it up and running again.
14th June
KB unknown
MKB unknown
Our ASW attacked 6 different times this turn. 5 of the getting hits. All were light hits.
One of our subs hits an AK with a live TT.
Kendri
AF attack by us. We destroy 2 Bettys and one recon plane on the ground with 27 runway hits. Intel says Kendri has 50 runway damage. Bombers are going in again againist the AF and port. SAG is missing this turn.
Ambon
Tomorrow troops and supplies will start unloading at Ambon. Air cover will be provided by Brit CVs and Beau fighters. I just noticed that Namlea is an AF 2 and its still in our hands. I am rushing AV support there with supplies to open up another AF to cover our ships. This base will also provide a base close enough to do sweeps of Kendri if and when Koniu gets it up and running again.
RE: Operation Dumbo
15th June
Starts out with a bang. Mine explosion. I think it was one of his subs.[8|]
KB unknown refits
MKB unknown
Sydney
Night time ASW hits I 160 and makes her surface. They fill her full of 5 in rounds. She sinks[:D][:D][:D][:D]
Noumea
We hit another sub light damage.
Bhamo
Japs attack and take this base. Our forces are retreating.
Kendri
We bomb the AF and find Zeros and Oscars. 4 Zeros and 1 Oscar are ops loses. 3 B17Es are shot down. A Betty, Mavis, and Nell are destroyed on the ground. AF has 66 points of damage. More bombings tomorrow.
Ambon
Amphib TF is there and begining to unload. Bettys paid a visit but were stopped by our air. 16 Bettys shot down. 4 Mavis's were shot down while scouting.[:'(][:'(]
The BB SAG has been located, a sub patroling off of southern Java found atleast 4 of the DDs. In the last 2 days we have hit 7 Jap subs with ASW.[X(][X(] I am pretty sure 2 will sink.
Starts out with a bang. Mine explosion. I think it was one of his subs.[8|]
KB unknown refits
MKB unknown
Sydney
Night time ASW hits I 160 and makes her surface. They fill her full of 5 in rounds. She sinks[:D][:D][:D][:D]
Noumea
We hit another sub light damage.
Bhamo
Japs attack and take this base. Our forces are retreating.
Kendri
We bomb the AF and find Zeros and Oscars. 4 Zeros and 1 Oscar are ops loses. 3 B17Es are shot down. A Betty, Mavis, and Nell are destroyed on the ground. AF has 66 points of damage. More bombings tomorrow.
Ambon
Amphib TF is there and begining to unload. Bettys paid a visit but were stopped by our air. 16 Bettys shot down. 4 Mavis's were shot down while scouting.[:'(][:'(]
The BB SAG has been located, a sub patroling off of southern Java found atleast 4 of the DDs. In the last 2 days we have hit 7 Jap subs with ASW.[X(][X(] I am pretty sure 2 will sink.
RE: Operation Dumbo
Question. Ambons AF has 11 point damage and 58 service damage with 562 supply. All LCUs are full supply. If I move fighters here will they fly? ALFRED!!!!!!!!
16th June
KB NE Ambon
MKB unknown
Ambon
Bloody Bloody Ambon. Koniu sent in a 3 DD SAG and a 2 BB SAG. He met our AMc first 36cm round sunk it. Next the 3 DD SAG ran into our SAG (CL 5 DDs). They damage 2 DDs. Next the BB SAG attacks our SAG. Our SAG stood there ground. All ships lost, they sink 1 DDs damage 2 more, and a BB with 2 CAs. The Jap BB SAG keeps rolling tearing into our transports. Most are sunk during this battle the rest with exception of 3 are sunk by the KB. DD Norman stood her ground she deals out alot of pain. She sinks 2 DDs damages3 other DDs. A Jap CA was missing from this battle. Hmmm fell out I guess. Don't think it sunk. KB launches its planes finds our CVs. HMS Illustrious takes a TT but has only light damage, HMS Indomitable takes 3 TTs and several bomb hits (15/64/32/0) and is down to 7 Knots. Our CVs strayed from the hex they were suppose to stay in. If they would of stayed put they wouldn't of been attacked due to thunderstorms. We did get one look at the Akagi but missed. BB Ise took 2 500lbers, BB Yamashira took 3 hits and was last seen on fire. Most of the troops were unloaded the only things lost were some guns, motor support, and supply. 13 Marlets, 11 Swordfish, 7 Fulmars, 4 Beau fighters, 2 Sea hurricanes. Japs lost 11 Vals, 11 Zeros, 10 Kates.
I figured this would happen but had to make my move. One more day and I would of been out of there. Interesting day. I was very happy with my ships they stood their ground.
Kendri
Bombed again. Intel says 63 damage with 4 port damage. We sink an AKL in port.
Rangoon
We bombed it 64 runway hits. with 2 planes torched on the ground.
Long Long turn 30min combat replay. I have more transports coming into the AO soon. I will need to redirect some more combat ships into the area. I need to get some fighters above the HMS Indomitable.
16th June
KB NE Ambon
MKB unknown
Ambon
Bloody Bloody Ambon. Koniu sent in a 3 DD SAG and a 2 BB SAG. He met our AMc first 36cm round sunk it. Next the 3 DD SAG ran into our SAG (CL 5 DDs). They damage 2 DDs. Next the BB SAG attacks our SAG. Our SAG stood there ground. All ships lost, they sink 1 DDs damage 2 more, and a BB with 2 CAs. The Jap BB SAG keeps rolling tearing into our transports. Most are sunk during this battle the rest with exception of 3 are sunk by the KB. DD Norman stood her ground she deals out alot of pain. She sinks 2 DDs damages3 other DDs. A Jap CA was missing from this battle. Hmmm fell out I guess. Don't think it sunk. KB launches its planes finds our CVs. HMS Illustrious takes a TT but has only light damage, HMS Indomitable takes 3 TTs and several bomb hits (15/64/32/0) and is down to 7 Knots. Our CVs strayed from the hex they were suppose to stay in. If they would of stayed put they wouldn't of been attacked due to thunderstorms. We did get one look at the Akagi but missed. BB Ise took 2 500lbers, BB Yamashira took 3 hits and was last seen on fire. Most of the troops were unloaded the only things lost were some guns, motor support, and supply. 13 Marlets, 11 Swordfish, 7 Fulmars, 4 Beau fighters, 2 Sea hurricanes. Japs lost 11 Vals, 11 Zeros, 10 Kates.
I figured this would happen but had to make my move. One more day and I would of been out of there. Interesting day. I was very happy with my ships they stood their ground.
Kendri
Bombed again. Intel says 63 damage with 4 port damage. We sink an AKL in port.
Rangoon
We bombed it 64 runway hits. with 2 planes torched on the ground.
Long Long turn 30min combat replay. I have more transports coming into the AO soon. I will need to redirect some more combat ships into the area. I need to get some fighters above the HMS Indomitable.
RE: Operation Dumbo
I count about 20 Jap DDs sunk. That should be about 10% of his DD forces gone. If I can keep him from reinforceing and resupplying Ambon. His forces here are in trouble. I also count around 15 subs sunk.[:D] I need to get sub attacks on his carriers.
RE: Operation Dumbo
ORIGINAL: DOCUP
Question. Ambons AF has 11 point damage and 58 service damage with 562 supply. All LCUs are full supply. If I move fighters here will they fly? ALFRED!!!!!!!! ...
You rrranggg?
It depends on the size of the airfield and the type of mission to be flown. See 9.4.1 of the manual.
1. CAP and Patrol missions will be flown when runway damage is less than 50 + (airfield size * 5)
2. Strike missions will be flown when runway damage is less than 20 + (airfield size * 5)
Therefore at a size 1 airfield CAP will fly if runway damage is less than 55. If the airfield is size 6, CAP will fly if the runway damage is less than 80.
Airfield service damage primarily affects the maintenance of aircraft and pilot morale. It really impacts upon the efficiency level of flight operations, not whether they can actually occur.
Lurch (aka Alfred)
RE: Operation Dumbo
Thanks Alfred. Loved the Munsters.
17th June
KB NW Ambon
MKB unknown
Ambon
CV Indominitable is sunk along with her escort.
Darwin
Jap sub takes 3 hits one critical.
Hilo
Jap sub sinks and AKL getting resources.
Thats about it folks. I have pulled back licking my wounds and thinking about what is next and how to do it.
17th June
KB NW Ambon
MKB unknown
Ambon
CV Indominitable is sunk along with her escort.
Darwin
Jap sub takes 3 hits one critical.
Hilo
Jap sub sinks and AKL getting resources.
Thats about it folks. I have pulled back licking my wounds and thinking about what is next and how to do it.
RE: Operation Dumbo
That explains the intense air cover Terry has been able to mount over the Shortlands. Joe, I wish I had contested further forward early in '42 (and operated my carriers with a better eye) as you have. As a strategy, I would have liked to have secured and built Taberfane while occupying the IJN with Ambon. I may have been able to do the same on Timor while the fighting on Java played out. I do not think Japan could invest so much in Burma and the Solomons with such a nearby threat in the southern rim of the DEI. The Japanese may have been tempted/forced to deploy the Kido Butai in DEI more often or better split it up enabling a quicker foothold in CenPac and rapid envelopement of Rabaul and New Guinea.