Modeling Buildable roads (Non-pwhex)

[treespider]

I have an idea for the "partial" modeling of buildable roads/transportation routes that is doable without the need of replacing the pwhexe file at some point during a game. The routes in question would be the Ledo Road, the Burma-Siam Railway, and the Alaskan Highway. Remember the point of all of the notable roads/routes built during the war was for logistics purposes and not necessarily for tactical maneuver.

I've always been a proponent of adding dotbases to just about every hex on the map, well at least those areas that see the most action during the game. In my mod for China I added dotbases to every transportation route intersection as well as to every cultivated hex. The benefit of this is tied to the games logistic model.

Due to the logistics model in the game - sometimes units find themselves better supplied outside of bases rather than in bases. By adding additional dotbases units will more likely be in a base rather than not alleviating that anomaly. In addition in China at start a number of Chinese units start "behind" enemy lines however because they have no bases in this area they are quickly cut off from supply. With the additional dotbases in my mod the Chinese have supply sources behind enemy lines.

Now to the idea of buildable transportation/logistics routes. Remember the routes in question for built for logistic reasons and not maneuver. By adding dotbases to most (not all) hexes on the Burma-India border one can severely restrict the amount of supply able to transit the border through the use of the "Supply Draw/Supply Cap" mechanism.

Supply Cap uses a bases size to determine the amount of supply that can flow into the base in a given turn. By increasing the size of the base you can increase the amount of supply flow into the hex. You can use this feature to create more favorable routes for supply that can be expanded over time.

So the idea is with a dotbase in just about every hex between India and Burma one could establish a string of dotbases that would have a larger potential size and slightly larger Supply Cap than the surrounding dotbases...when these dotbases were built up they would create a supply path with greater potential than the areas.

A side effect of the dotbases would be that units that would otherwise be fully supplied in the bush (as the game stands now) would now have to draw their supply from a dot with a restricted Supply Cap value.

Back in WitP days I was always a proponent of removing the Kokoda trail from the map not because of movement, but because of the logistics model in the game. The logistics model would allow a player to draw an unlimited amount of supply from one end to the other...now with the Supply Draw feature you can restrict the amount of Supply that flows in a given region of the map through the use of dot bases and Supply Caps.

[ny59giants]

A good morning from Johnson City!!

Along with the dot bases, should there be an increase in the number of supply sucking static devices in all light and heavy urban hexes to represent the native population needing to be fed??

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

A good morning from Johnson City!!

Along with the dot bases, should there be an increase in the number of supply sucking static devices in all light and heavy urban hexes to represent the native population needing to be fed??

No absolutely not...the civilian economy is represented by the elevated value of inputs versus outputs of the two types of industry. Thats why you only get 2 supply after pumping in 15 or so resources at Light Industry sites...the rest of the resources went to supply the civilians.

For whatever reason during the development stage of the ganme the player was given the opportunity to "shut off" industries. The economic model was designed with the intention that industry would be constantly running. The player should not be allowed to shut industry off as by doing so they are also shutting off the "hidden" civilian economy.

[Empire101]

Sounds intriguing... I shall watch this space with interest!![:)]

[LargeSlowTarget]

Nice idea [:)]. Don't want to claim "ownership", but I have been using dot bases and supply cap for some time already: fb.asp?m=2871090

I'm currently working on the Assam "tea garden railroad" to Ledo, Ledo Road and China.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Nice idea [:)]. Don't want to claim "ownership", but I have been using dot bases and supply cap for some time already: fb.asp?m=2871090

I'm currently working on the Assam "tea garden railroad" to Ledo, Ledo Road and China.

No worries on the ownership... I've had the idea of the dot base chain for quite some time...

tm.asp?m=2466059&mpage=2&key=dot%2Cbases&#

[LargeSlowTarget]

Ahh - shot down in flames! [:D]

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: treespider

I have an idea for the "partial" modeling of buildable roads/transportation routes that is doable without the need of replacing the pwhexe file at some point during a game. The routes in question would be the Ledo Road, the Burma-Siam Railway, and the Alaskan Highway. Remember the point of all of the notable roads/routes built during the war was for logistics purposes and not necessarily for tactical maneuver.

I've always been a proponent of adding dotbases to just about every hex on the map, well at least those areas that see the most action during the game. In my mod for China I added dotbases to every transportation route intersection as well as to every cultivated hex. The benefit of this is tied to the games logistic model.

Due to the logistics model in the game - sometimes units find themselves better supplied outside of bases rather than in bases. By adding additional dotbases units will more likely be in a base rather than not alleviating that anomaly. In addition in China at start a number of Chinese units start "behind" enemy lines however because they have no bases in this area they are quickly cut off from supply. With the additional dotbases in my mod the Chinese have supply sources behind enemy lines.

Now to the idea of buildable transportation/logistics routes. Remember the routes in question for built for logistic reasons and not maneuver. By adding dotbases to most (not all) hexes on the Burma-India border one can severely restrict the amount of supply able to transit the border through the use of the "Supply Draw/Supply Cap" mechanism.

Supply Cap uses a bases size to determine the amount of supply that can flow into the base in a given turn. By increasing the size of the base you can increase the amount of supply flow into the hex. You can use this feature to create more favorable routes for supply that can be expanded over time.

So the idea is with a dotbase in just about every hex between India and Burma one could establish a string of dotbases that would have a larger potential size and slightly larger Supply Cap than the surrounding dotbases...when these dotbases were built up they would create a supply path with greater potential than the areas.

A side effect of the dotbases would be that units that would otherwise be fully supplied in the bush (as the game stands now) would now have to draw their supply from a dot with a restricted Supply Cap value.

Back in WitP days I was always a proponent of removing the Kokoda trail from the map not because of movement, but because of the logistics model in the game. The logistics model would allow a player to draw an unlimited amount of supply from one end to the other...now with the Supply Draw feature you can restrict the amount of Supply that flows in a given region of the map through the use of dot bases and Supply Caps.

I wish mainly here to comment on the use of dot bases in China by Treespider. He added a LOT of them. At the suggestion of Mifune, I looked at it, and imported many of the dots. They were as he describes here - not developed. But I found they ALL were at places with real resources - and they all explain why roads go where they do (well - all but one - on the Yellow River - it didn't use roads IRL - and since my Yellow River works - it isn't a problem for me either). I find that the added bases work very well in several ways - particularly if they generate resources and supplies. But the main reasons are (1) you can fortify them and (2) you gain logistical control, as he describes here. At least if you use the beta software with its switches.

As for the general proposition - trying to build roads without building roads - I don't think it is good modeling to use dot locations. It is probably better to use the method eshewed - pwhexe. You have options. Since I have a separate file for every season of the war (even if it goes on after August 1945) - I can represent construction - with trails first - then secondary roads - then primary road, secondary rail line or even primary rail line - or more than one I suppose (never did that). This method IS of tactical (well - operational) value - which IS important - particularly as players are likely to have ops in places they were not in history. Not because players are "wrong" - but because different strategic choices were made where to send what? Might as well have the "real" road for that date - or whatever it is. There are not very many cases that matter - and in fact I even added some that don't matter as chrome.
But it is more than just roads here - even in the Burma Road area. There is the Burma-Kunming RR - and in some circumstances it might have been completed. I allow it to complete late in 1945. The "second death railway" on Sumatra completed on VJ Day - so no reason not to put it in. It permits coal from Benkalis to reach the other side of the island. The Burma Siam RR - aka the death railway - is more important. But - back to Northern Burma again - upgrading the Bengal & Assam RR matters more than any Japanese project. That one even puts a bridge across the Bhramaputra - which should NOT be in the game pwhexe (but is in stock) - when the war begins. ALL the rail lines in NE Frontier are minor rail line until the upgrade. Most become major. Both roads and rail lines matter - and no reason not to let units use em - even if the enemy isn't around.

[topeverest]

El Cid,

To help me find it where is the PWHEX method and begin playing, can you point me in the right direction? My thought is to gradually replace / build roads over time, perhaps a monthly map update after July of 42, putting certain roads and rails gradually back. While I know there always is the risk for the allies to go too fast with these enhancements, it is something I really want to learn how to do and try to balance out.

regarding dot bases as a supply mechanism, I like the idea to be able to customize supply capabilities, but i'd rather use a utility in the editor for that. I like limiting number of bases and SPS's for the effects it has on slowing the allies down in mid and late war.