Outing Canoerebel

[Historiker]

you sure?

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Sakai007

...Joshua Chamberlain lived ten miles up the road in Brunswick, as Dean of Bowdoin College. ...

Chamberlain was a stud in the sense that he had all of the admirable manly virtues. Here's a few things that might interest you Civil War buffs.

Years before the war, Chamberlain was in love with a woman who moved to Milledgeville, Georgia, to teach (or perhaps to serve as a governess; I forget which). Chamerlain nearly followed her here. They married and spent all of their life in Maine.

Chamberlain did not have a mililtary education. He was the best kind of citizen soldier, rising in rank to major general by war's end. He showed great personal bravery in battle and was loved by his men and had the full respect and trust of his superiors.

After the war, Chamberlain became governor of his state.

On the southern side there was a man with a similar story. John Brown Gordon of Georgia had no mililtary training, enlisted in the army at start of the war, and finished as a major general. He showed exceptional personal bravery (he was wounded six times at Antietam in the Sunken Road) and became one of the rising stars at war's end.

By the time Lee's bedraggled and hunted army was ready to surrender at Appomattox, his remaining two Corps were under the command of Longstreet and Gordon, both were Georgians (Gordon had to take command of the remnant of one corps after its commanding officer - Ewell? - was captured).

As I recall, at the ceremony of surrender at Appomattox, Lee selected Gordon to handle things. Chamberlain was chosen on the Union side.

After the war, Gordon became governor of his state.

Chamberlain lived until 1916. Gordon lived until 1904 and was the first commander of the United Confederate Veterans.

(All of this is from memory, so don't cite this without checking up on it).

[Sakai007]

Canoerebel - I had read most of the things you mentioned about Chamberlain from biographies I found at the local library and so forth. I did not know about the woman he loved, and that is very interesting. My great, great, great uncle was at Gettysburg on the burial detail after the battle. First generation of my family that I know of that served their nation, making every major US war since with the exception of WWI. Chamberlain was wounded at Vicksburg IIRC during the siege. His unit was ordered to advance across open ground and was nearly wiped out by the defenders. He was sent back, recovered, and returned to the fight shortly before the end of the war. This is when he was chosen to handle the surrender at Appomattox. Obviously, the 20th Maine is a legend in these parts. I was once told that the problems that lead to the Civil War still exist today in various forms, still un-solved. Rabid nationalism is present in many of the states that participated. By nationalism I mean extreme pride, patriotism, and loyalty to ones own state before the nation as a whole, just didn't know a better word for it. Here in Maine, the 20th is still a story to be told with power in ones voice, as I am sure many other states are just as proud of their ancestors contribution to the greatest American Tragedy.

[Canoerebel]

The Apostle Paul once said that he was a "Hebrew among Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee."

In similar spirit, I am a southerner among southerners. That is, I am truly a son of the South going back generations; imbued in the sanctity of the Lost Cause; proud of my heritage and my region. From this perspective, I can assure you that very few southerners today have allegiance to state over country (with the possible exception of some Texicans). Southerners are proud Americans first with few exceptions.

IMO, the problems that led to the Civil War are nearly non-existent today. We deal with a very different set of problems. To be sure, there are deep political and some social differences that divide our country, but that are no longer state vs. state. It's more urban vs. rural and poor vs. not poor. A chism of the kind that we saw in 1861 is very unlikely (though other kinds of chisms are certainly not impossible).

As hot and touchy as people can be today, these times are still considerably more tranquil and decent than several others I can think of in the not-too-distant past. The 1960s and 1970s were much more heated. And from 1890 to about 1930 there was an amazing number of lynchings - all over the country, but moreso in the south. Imagine living at a time when people took the law into their own hands and killed people right in your own neighborhood. The thought is just sobering.

This can very easily devolve into a contentious political discussion, but the point I wanted to make is to simply say that, all things considered, we Americans live in a peaceful, contended and prosperous country.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Hmmm I am from SOUTH Germany if that counts [:D]

Cool! Did your family own any slaves[:D]?

I own one myself, we call it husband here. So yes ma and grandma had a slave also Hmmm maybe I should plant cotton o.O

Correction Countess Zeppelin, you own two, including myself. [&o]

[Schanilec]

Guten tag y'all.[8D]

[morganbj]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Sakai007

...Joshua Chamberlain lived ten miles up the road in Brunswick, as Dean of Bowdoin College. ...

Chamberlain was a stud in the sense that he had all of the admirable manly virtues. Here's a few things that might interest you Civil War buffs.

Years before the war, Chamberlain was in love with a woman who moved to Milledgeville, Georgia, to teach (or perhaps to serve as a governess; I forget which). Chamerlain nearly followed her here. They married and spent all of their life in Maine.

Chamberlain did not have a mililtary education. He was the best kind of citizen soldier, rising in rank to major general by war's end. He showed great personal bravery in battle and was loved by his men and had the full respect and trust of his superiors.

After the war, Chamberlain became governor of his state.

On the southern side there was a man with a similar story. John Brown Gordon of Georgia had no mililtary training, enlisted in the army at start of the war, and finished as a major general. He showed exceptional personal bravery (he was wounded six times at Antietam in the Sunken Road) and became one of the rising stars at war's end.

By the time Lee's bedraggled and hunted army was ready to surrender at Appomattox, his remaining two Corps were under the command of Longstreet and Gordon, both were Georgians (Gordon had to take command of the remnant of one corps after its commanding officer - Ewell? - was captured).

As I recall, at the ceremony of surrender at Appomattox, Lee selected Gordon to handle things. Chamberlain was chosen on the Union side.

After the war, Gordon became governor of his state.

Chamberlain lived until 1916. Gordon lived until 1904 and was the first commander of the United Confederate Veterans.

(All of this is from memory, so don't cite this without checking up on it).

Gordon was my grandmother's (Gordon) grandfather, or was it great gradfather. I forget. At least that was what I've been told. Knowing this forum someone will say that Gordon's talleywacker was whacked, so he had no offspring, thereby making me look like a jerk.

[Canoerebel]

Gordon's wife was named Fanny, if memory serves.  They were very close.  She accompanied him to Virginia and was with him in camp much of the time.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The Apostle Paul once said that he was a "Hebrew among Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee."

A Hebrew amongst Hebrews and, as touching the Law, a Pharisee. You, Caneorebel, are a scholar.

Mom was a German war bride, Dad was a Southern serviceman (family was from Dickey, GA). Great, great uncle or something was an arty Bn commander in Army of Tenn/Miss. Maybe that's why I love guns. Grew up in Fla, when it was cool. Tampa's Mayor was Manny Garcia (cubano), my girlfriend was Nancy Delapena (cubano) and we never thought a thing about it; then the Yankees and the Govt came... Went to Bates College in Maine because, at the time, that's what one did. Then off to MIT and the world. Used to be, those colleges were hotbeds of intensive scientific thought: Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Smith, Amherst, Brown. Then the Govt came ... things have since changed to other paradigms.

Lived and worked in the Northeast for several years; school, Draper Labs, Ealing Corp, DoD stuff. Once I got free, I went to TI (Dallas), Harris (Fla) and Kali-jo-fornia. But once it got time to retire and move my stroked-out mother to someplace righteous, there wasn't no alternative to the Gulf Coast of the Southland. It's a transitory stop, but am daily smacked up side of my head about how little this part of the Gulf Coast has changed. The sailing on Mobile Bay is exactly how I remember it from Davis Island YC. And down around Bon Secur, they got fresh shrimp, snapper, grouper, whites, blues, mahi mahi, and smoked frikken mullet.

And people open doors for ladies. And people are polite to one another. And it's just ... "Pleasent" ... to live here.

Took 30 years to remember what it means to be a Southron. Will never forget. No matter which end of the world I end up at.

[Canoerebel]

"Southrons" isn't a term used much any longer, but it's a great one.  Here's a version of a song that uses the term.  After a brief instrumental, that word opens the lyrics.  Listen to the lyrics if you haven't heard this version before. 

[:)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ubpvdUg ... re=related

Edited: Swapped out a version that had video a little less "in your face" than the original post here. It's not the video, but rather the song by Bobby Horton that's the point. Southron pride can kinda seem "in your face" to those unaquainted to it or not part of it.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
"Southrons" isn't a term used much any longer, but it's a great one.  Here's a version of a song that uses the term.  After a brief instrumental, that word opens the lyrics.  Listen to the lyrics if you haven't heard this version before. 

[:)]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgimvM5Swbw

Haven't heard it before, but it sent shivers. Think Southrons is a term that should be used more often. The whole idea of the Federal Republic, was to allow for the several States to be incubators of various forms of Govt, so long as those forms were Democratic in nature. I think we truly do have Southrons, and we truly do have Cali Country, and we truly do have the North Mid-Country Refuge, and the (pacifist, but damn near Canadian, and that ain't bad) Pacific NW, and the AFLCIO Soviets of Illinois/Michigan, and then New England yankees. And of course, there's always the Texicans.

I think it a profitable exercise to differentiate ourselves according to our cultural milieu. After all, it's them as is around us that makes us.

[Cribtop]

Hehe. We do enjoy the continued and prosperous alliance of our two great nations - The Republic of Texas and the USA. [:D]

Most Texans are firm American patriots (witness the numbers of Texans in the military). I confess I'm less sanguine about the future than Canoerebel, but agree that the specific grievances that led to the US Civil War are behind us.