Historiker (J) vs. USS America (A) - no USS America

[Historiker]

today's air losses (including moderate fighting in china, where one of my elite Zero groups ate a part of the Flying Tigers alive)





So about 60 to 80 of his carrier planes were able to get ashore. This will cause some problems in the next days, as those DBs can still do harm and the fighters can still intercept my strikes... [:-]

[obvert]

That is crushing!!! Nicely done!

What was he doing with so few fighters on CAP, and with his CVs so close to danger in the first place?

This will have some far-reaching implications. Have you thought about what this might mean for the next year for you?

[Historiker]

He propably had LR-CAP over transport feelts and expected a surface raid, as one TF was sighted by Jakes, not by Vals.

This shows me:
a) he commits his forces and doesn't hide - which will allow me to hit him again
b) I will keep naval air supremacy into 43, especially if I keep the KB combined.

All CVs are accelerated. If I manage to pay for them when they enter the real production phase, I'll have two Taiho and 6 Unryu additionally in 43. This will make the forces equal throughout 43!

[Historiker]

Solomones:
KB and Mini-KB are rerouted into the Coral Sea. I have found an enemy TF with 4 ships moving NE into the Solomon Sea. It is quite possible that this is in fact a CV-TF with the two US CVs.
Radio detection shows an enemy TF 45 miles SE of Brisbane. This might be a big convoy to reinforce PM.
This would make sense together with the subs close to Truk. He wants to reinforce PM before I take it and has his subs to detect KB if it intervenes.
While it may be tempting to try taking out a convoy full of enemy troops, I guess a shot at some CVs is more attractive. I will think a little bit more about what to do. Propably running towards the identified TF with full speed.
We'll see...

Funny to see I got both the CVs AND the troop coinvoy. I can't wait for the slaughter to continue! [:D]

[Historiker]

I just realized that the hits on Zuikaku and Haruna weren't FOW.
Haruna has lost one of her front 36cm turrets!

Zuikaku was hit, too - but look for yourself! [X(]

[obvert]

Unless I'm missing something obvious, it looks like all she lost were torpedoes and 250kg bombs. Maybe it knocked the golden chrysanthemum off the bow.

[Historiker]

The torpedoes were used, so she took a 1.000lbs hit without any damage.

Nice ship!

[USSAmerica]

I'm not reading any of the posts in here, but after that last turn replay I had to pop in and publicly congratulate my opponent on a masterful sneak attack. That was absolutely the worst turn I've ever had in any game of AE, WitP, or UV!

I'm off to drown my sorrows now, and then plot my revenge!

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Battle of the Coral Sea:
+++ Great Victory for the Imperial forces +++

BANZAI!!! [&o]

[jrcar]

Wow nice result!

Cheers

Rob

[JocMeister]

Wow, That was a really nice ambush! Lesson of the day: Don´t LRCAP things when you don´t know where the KB is?

[Historiker]

Thank you! I just found this on skype:

Well....
[12:09:42 AM]: ...that turn went from "Damn!" to "Holy Shit" to "Holy Fuck" to "Fuck Me!"
[12:10:08 AM]: that is easily the absolute worst turn I have EVER had in any game of AE, WitP, or UV
[12:11:14 AM]: even though the may 1 start gives you the historical 8 BB's knocked out at Pearl Harbor, you couldn't have dreamed to have a better turn at Pearl than this massacar was
[12:12:34 AM]: I don't know how you did it, but getting the entire KB and the Baby KB deep into the Coral Sea, completely undetected, exactly when I had 3 fully loaded troop convoys and 2 CV's that were outnumbered more than 4-1 was masterfully done!
[12:13:31 AM]: I didn't have even the slightest clue or hint that any of your CV's were anywhere within 1000 miles of that spot
[12:14:51 AM]: I had a 2% chance of worry that your CV's might have been lingering behind your AMC's around Canton Island, but that was my biggest fear
[12:15:19 AM]: this is going to be a looooooong game now, if you manage to take advantage of this turn's results.....

Indeed, I kinda celebrate!

Projected Strength Allies:
now: 6CV
8/42: 6CV, 2CVE
12/42: 5CV, 8CVE
3/43: 6CV, 8CVE
6/43: 7CV, 1CVL, 13CVE
9/43: 10CV, 5CVL, 15CVE
12/43: 11CV, 7CVL, 21CVE

Projected Japanese Strength: (If I manage to keep the acceleration running)
now: 7CV, 3CVL, 2CVE
8/42: 8CV, 3CVL, 3CVE
12/42: 8CV, 4CVL, 4CVE
3/43: 9CV, 4CVL, 4CVE
6/43: 11CV, 4CVL, 4CVE
9/43: 14CV, 4CVL, 4CVE
12/43: 16CV, 8CVL, 6CVE

That doesn't look THAT bad, right? [:)]

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Solomones:
KB and Mini-KB are rerouted into the Coral Sea. I have found an enemy TF with 4 ships moving NE into the Solomon Sea. It is quite possible that this is in fact a CV-TF with the two US CVs.
Radio detection shows an enemy TF 45 miles SE of Brisbane. This might be a big convoy to reinforce PM.
This would make sense together with the subs close to Truk. He wants to reinforce PM before I take it and has his subs to detect KB if it intervenes.
While it may be tempting to try taking out a convoy full of enemy troops, I guess a shot at some CVs is more attractive. I will think a little bit more about what to do. Propably running towards the identified TF with full speed.
We'll see...

Funny to see I got both the CVs AND the troop convoy. I can't wait for the slaughter to continue! [:D]

Great result, you have him on the back foot now...following with interest!!

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

12/43: 16CV, 8CVL, 6CVE

It's difficult to get all of those CVs pulled forward into 1943-some of them may show in early 1944, unless you don't use any naval points to accelerate other ships. I'm also unfamiliar with where the May 1942 start leaves you vis a vis existing shipbuilding reserves.

Still, I'm picking nits-you should have a formidable CV/CVL/CVE force available to you in early 1944.

[Historiker]

Yes, it'll be very difficult.
Right now, I think about expanding the NSYs to a degree that can afford all that CVs. This will leave me with almost no surplus of HI after increased air production as well.
If this works, I will have a CV force that's formidable and will be able to meet the allied head on in early 44. THis will hopefully slow his advance.
Both the slowed advance and the NSYs shut down should produce a good HI reserve in 44.
At least that's my hope right now.

[obvert]

You'll also be able to toggle things on and off periodically to build a bit of HI as you go. You may not be having many more naval air battles for a while, for instance. [;)]

The latest from the Cuttlefish/Charbroiled game shows that it's important to both build the HI and to keep the DEI sending oil as late as possible. Your CV ratio should keep the DEI safe through a good portion of 44 while you build the surplus.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: obvert

You'll also be able to toggle things on and off periodically to build a bit of HI as you go. You may not be having many more naval air battles for a while, for instance. [;)]

The latest from the Cuttlefish/Charbroiled game shows that it's important to both build the HI and to keep the DEI sending oil as late as possible. Your CV ratio should keep the DEI safe through a good portion of 44 while you build the surplus.

But does it make sense to save for worse times, when i can "avoid" them?

My plan is to meet his first invasion with all my forces. So no grabbing of the Carolines without Jap CVs in sight like IRL.

If I can still get fuel and oil to the HI throughout 1944, it'll look way different than it did in Cuttlefish's game, no?


Something different:
I know, everyone says: "Ship fuel, fuel and fuel to the HI". I am thinking about an alternative for quite some time...
Why not turn off the Raffineries in the SRA for some weeks per month to get oil instead of fuel. This oil is shipped to the HI, where the raffineries are turned off until the fuel pool is sufficiant for fleet operations and the HI, but not more.

The reason for this:
- Oil doesn't spoil, fuel does
- Oil doesn't dwindle when transported by land, fuel does
- Oil can't be bombed, fuel can
- If strategic bombing begins, most allied player are likely to neglect the refineries, as oil is gone in the HI in 43 (I guess) in most games. So I might be able to produce fresh fuel even late in the war.

The only downside I see is, that the supply production in the SRA might be too low - thus turning on refineries for about two weeks per month - and that oil can only be transported by tankers while fuel can be hauled by everything.

Any opinions?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

But does it make sense to save for worse times, when i can "avoid" them?

Yes it makes sense to save for worse times, because worse times are coming. You can hold off defeat longer by early repostes, such as the one you just laid on him. But you can't hold off the surfeit of Allied strength indefinitely.

My plan is to meet his first invasion with all my forces. So no grabbing of the Carolines without Jap CVs in sight like IRL.

That's great, assuming you can predict with surety where that invasion is coming. Who says he'll go for the Carolines first? What if it's Western Sumatra? Timor? You can't have KB everywhere. If you *could* have all your forces on hand to meet the seaborne Allied invasion, that would be quite a spectacle!

Something different:
I know, everyone says: "Ship fuel, fuel and fuel to the HI". I am thinking about an alternative for quite some time...
Why not turn off the Raffineries in the SRA for some weeks per month to get oil instead of fuel. This oil is shipped to the HI, where the raffineries are turned off until the fuel pool is sufficiant for fleet operations and the HI, but not more.

You will need BOTH oil and fuel transported home. Your home fuel supplies will drop precipitously if you do not send both liquids to the home islands. Just relying on oil imports and refinery capacity is insufficient.

Plus, you will need fuel and supply produced in the DEI for use locally. Do you want to rely on refueling your ships only at the home islands? KB drinks a lot when it's out and about. If you turn off refineries on, say, Java or Palembang, you'll have to import fuel and supply-glaring inefficiencies.
[/quote]

The reason for this:
- Oil doesn't spoil, fuel does

Yes. No player should allow fuel to spoil. It should be moved to spoil-free ports.

- Oil doesn't dwindle when transported by land, fuel does

True, but see comment above. Fuel should not be 'dumped' into a system where it will dwindle whilest en route to it's reservoir.

- Oil can't be bombed, fuel can

Yes, but oil production within range of LBA is doomed in short order anyways.

- If strategic bombing begins, most allied player are likely to neglect the refineries, as oil is gone in the HI in 43 (I guess) in most games. So I might be able to produce fresh fuel even late in the war.

In the home islands, yes. Once his axes of advance take him within any refinery / HI production, these will be obliterated in short order.

The only downside I see is, that the supply production in the SRA might be too low - thus turning on refineries for about two weeks per month - and that oil can only be transported by tankers while fuel can be hauled by everything.

Your LI should be able to keep pace with supply in the home islands. HI production too. Refinery impact on supply will be significantly less than HI/LI production. Supply in the home islands really isn't much of an issue for a decently-run economy.

Fuel *can* be transported by just about everything. It's just inefficient to do it this way. In an emergency, sure. But reliance on xAK transport of fuel as a central underpinning of one's economy? No-you'll lose too much refueling ships that make the journey.

Any opinions?

None. [;)]

[Historiker]

Thank you for your input.
I will think about this with the greatest tool of this game at hand: the Tracker [:)]

[Empire101]

Turn Sent...off out with my girlfriend....back later!!

regards
Chris