Gnikam eht ni retsasid - Oloren USSR, Terje Axis. Oloren now permitted.

[sj80]

Hey terje,
your frontline from Riga southwards on the river looks pretty good! I think you should put the units which are facing the enemy into static mode. In static mode their attriction losses are much lower. This will help to stabilize your manpower. I would set as much units as possible into static mode ... everywhere where the frontline is stable and the Sovjets are not attacking. It seems you have a lot of APs, so you can reactive masses of static units if necessary.

I would also search for units to disband ... security divs, useless SU (e.g. SIG 33 SpGun). SUs are always handled in refit mode, so maybe it's good to reduce their max TOE (e.g. AA ...) to ensure that more manpower is sent to your inf divs.

You will lose the game much faster if you stop attacking. So sent as much forces as possible to the south (it seems there is the most action) and attack like crazy. Maybe some kind of "backhand blow"? Fall back 2-3 hexes in clear terrain and if he follows you push him back or encircle him.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: sj80

Hey terje,
your frontline from Riga southwards on the river looks pretty good! I think you should put the units which are facing the enemy into static mode. In static mode their attriction losses are much lower. This will help to stabilize your manpower. I would set as much units as possible into static mode ... everywhere where the frontline is stable and the Sovjets are not attacking. It seems you have a lot of APs, so you can reactive masses of static units if necessary.

I would also search for units to disband ... security divs, useless SU (e.g. SIG 33 SpGun). SUs are always handled in refit mode, so maybe it's good to reduce their max TOE (e.g. AA ...) to ensure that more manpower is sent to your inf divs.

You will lose the game much faster if you stop attacking. So sent as much forces as possible to the south (it seems there is the most action) and attack like crazy. Maybe some kind of "backhand blow"? Fall back 2-3 hexes in clear terrain and if he follows you push him back or encircle him.

Ah yes, did not consider static mode, thanks for the heads up.
For the time being, the security divisions are used to dig, they do not do so very well, but every little bit helps, but I guess I could indeed disband some SUs.

As to attacking, I do attack as much as possible, but the problem is that only a handful of units are capable of attacking and succeeding at this time, and I need to watch my offensive capabilities so that I do not "spend" them on useless attacks, as these handful of units are my only choice to deal with breakthroughs from the USSR. That being said, almost all attacks I make are in the south against an ocean of USSR Guards units, and I usually force 4-5 stacks to fall back every turn. The idea of a backhand blow is a good one, but one that will see my fortified frontline destroyed, so I am afraid to move untill I have a proper fallback line behind me in case I cannot retain the USSR troops as soon as I move from my forts.


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 67

Overall
The USSR tank corps push their way into our lines, and try to force us to retreat. Our reply is to counterattack on a minor scale, isolating a total of 6 USSR Tank Corps in two small pockets. We also place the northern front on static this turn. The USSR launch a total of 11 attacks and score 2 helds and 9 retreats. We launch 9 attacks, scoring 2 helds, 2 retreats and 5 routs.

Losses
USSR : 87.000 troops, 999 guns, 560 AFVs, 315 AC.
Axis : 47.000 troops, 805 guns, 151 AFVs, 30 AC.

Pools
Manpower : 240.401
Vehicle : 252.506
Armaments : 216.757
Hiwi : 9

Pest control
We force the 3 partisan units on the map to retreat.

[terje439]

Turn 68

Overall
The USSR reopen the pockets we formed last turn, and we only manage to reform one of them this turn. The good thing is that the USSR only make those attacks needed to open the pockets and no more. The USSR score 3 retreats with their 3 attacks, while we score 1 held, 4 retreats and 3 routs with our 8 attacks.

Losses
USSR : 85.000 troops, 947 guns, 538 AFVs, 261 AC.
Axis : 45.000 troops, 594 guns, 255 AFVs, 20 AC.
Worth noting about our losses - we cannot take such AFV losses for much longer, so right now we pray for mud to arrive to give us some time to rest our panzer divisions.

Pools
Manpower : 245.241
Vehicle : 254.284
Armaments : 194.043
Hiwi : 7

Pest control
We remove all 6 partisan units from the map this turn.

[Tarhunnas]

Good AAR and really impressive that you are still keeeping up the game despite a rather grim situation! Respect!

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Good AAR and really impressive that you are still keeeping up the game despite a rather grim situation! Respect!

Thank you. Yes, there is no surrender here, we will fight untill the USSR plants the flag on the Reichtag [:)]


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 69

Overall
Only two USSR attacks is somewhat scary, what are they up to? Both USSR attacks results in retreat result this turn. We launch a total of 8 attacks, scoring 2 helds, 2 retreats and 4 routs. One of the USSR attacks take out a fortified zone. Sloppy by me, nothing else to say really.

Losses
USSR : 80.000 troops, 920 guns, 550 AFVs, 181 AC.
Axis : 36.000 troops, 507 guns, 112 AFVs, 9 AC.

Pools
Manpower : 251.421
Vehicle : 259.517
Armaments : 188.296
Hiwi : 5

Vehicle and Manpower are rising, but Armaments are dropping, this is a slight concern at the moment, but I take it my building of fortified zones comes into play here...

Pest control
We force all 5 partisans to retreat this turn.

[terje439]

Turn 70

Overall
We see a very welcome sight, mud. This should allow us some time to let our divisions to regain some strength. The USSR try two attacks, but only score two held results. We do not attack at all as there is nowhere we are able to secure decent odds.

Losses
USSR : 63.000 troops, 540 guns, 50 AFVs, 144 AC.
Axis : 22.000 troops, 133 guns, 18 AFVs, 3 AC.

Pools
Manpower : 250.944
Vehicle : 258.829
Armaments : 177.586
hiwi : 20

Pest control
All 4 partisans are chased away.

Concerns
At this rate we will run out of armaments in 17.5 turns...

[76mm]

I don't mean to be discouraging, but I think that a 1-deep line of fortifications will hardly slow him down at all if he has sappers and arty reinforcing his rifle corps. If you have the AP and the units to spare from the front line, you should build as deep a fort line as possible.

[RCHarmon]

He lost something like 20 divisions in the blizzard. He is going to have a chronic problem with replacements.

How are your divisions filling out? What does the rifle squads look like?

Losing 20 divisions is hard to overcome. They all come back as 50s in moral and there will be the shortage of manpower.

I could be wrong.

The real enemy of the Axis is the Soviet rifle corp. Cavalry and tanks corps even stacked can be dealt with. One stack of three rifle corps full of SUs is almost unstoppable by late '43 anyway.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I don't mean to be discouraging, but I think that a 1-deep line of fortifications will hardly slow him down at all if he has sappers and arty reinforcing his rifle corps. If you have the AP and the units to spare from the front line, you should build as deep a fort line as possible.

I agree, had I had my way, the entire front would look like the Finnish border, but beggars cannot be picky they say, so I dig in behind the rivers, and if time is given I will keep adding to the lines, but we will see.
My major concern however is not AP, but armaments...

Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: RCH

He lost something like 20 divisions in the blizzard. He is going to have a chronic problem with replacements.

How are your divisions filling out? What does the rifle squads look like?

Losing 20 divisions is hard to overcome. They all come back as 50s in moral and there will be the shortage of manpower.

I could be wrong.

The real enemy of the Axis is the Soviet rifle corp. Cavalry and tanks corps even stacked can be dealt with. One stack of three rifle corps full of SUs is almost unstoppable by late '43 anyway.

See below. not good [:D]
USSR tank corps I do not fear, they are very brittle, but as you say, the Infantry Corps is fearsome, and I know from own experience that Mechanized Corps too are lethal...
The divisions are still sub-strength overall, but I have a nucleus of combat ready troops, but this is also why I needed to rest my panzers, they are my firefighters.


Terje

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: RCH

He lost something like 20 divisions in the blizzard. He is going to have a chronic problem with replacements.

How are your divisions filling out? What does the rifle squads look like?

Losing 20 divisions is hard to overcome. They all come back as 50s in moral and there will be the shortage of manpower.

I could be wrong.

The real enemy of the Axis is the Soviet rifle corp. Cavalry and tanks corps even stacked can be dealt with. One stack of three rifle corps full of SUs is almost unstoppable by late '43 anyway.

Apart from the obvious issue of the russian OOB strength, its interesting to see that the german OOB is still 500k or near 20% over historical levels even with the current blizzard and losing 20 divs.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[RCHarmon]

In the actual war the Germans took 800k casualties while inflicting 6 million on the Soviet. That is not replicated in this game. If the Soviet runs, well the Axis follows. The Axis army is in great shape before the 1941 blizzard when historically many divisions were at 50%. The whole casualty comparison is way off.

Losing 20 divisions is something like 300k men +/-. The biggest problem is that the rebuilt units are at 50 moral. Utterly useless. He may get a few to 65 maybe, most will languish in the 50s.

Even with a better historical oob for the Germans the better numerical OOB for the Soviet and the fact that the German rebuilt divisions are militia this puts the Soviet miles ahead.

The loss of 20 divisions is made possible by the coded 1941 blizzard.

[Walloc]

Note that i dont compare to the russian side other than to mention that this isnt a one sided issue.
But isnt ur typical run away game cuz it wasnt necesarry cuz of Quote Terje's "piss poor play". There lots of combat/attrition/losses pre mud and obviously after. Its in that light that looking at the german losses/OOB and compare em to mid '42 is interresting. If u add the 300k men he "shouldnt" lose in the blizzard there is a 750k men difference by mid '42.

In seperating the issues its IMO interresting to see that with current combat engine and attrition code that in a near disaterous axis campaign produce these results.

Since the problems on the other side has been exhausivly pointed out no point in mention those. Ppl keep saying they wana fix both sides. Apart from BigAnorak, i havent seen much mention of this particular issue.

As too the blizzard creating the 20 captured divs. From a technical point ur correct as it happened during teh blizzard, but it is avoidble. Not saying in a historical fashion, but it is. That ofc is another issue.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[RCHarmon]

After this post I suggest we start a new thread or continue in private. Terje is a good sport and I don't mean to highjack his thread.

It should be in the Soviets interest to cause casualties to the Axis in 1941. How....well????

There are discrepancies through out the game. I'd like to see it all addressed from a neutral perspective. To be realistic that is not at all possible. Quirks will inevitably remain. It is for the player to decide if the enjoyment outweighs the quirks.

A point is that it is not near disastrous it is disastrous. With all respect to Terje he is doomed. The only thing inhibiting the Soviet now are a few panzer divisions and their own unpreparedness. When the Soviet gets rolling that is it. Terje will have no options to stop them.

It is like a chess match. Checkmate is ensured it merely requires the necessary number of moves.

[terje439]

Weird that you both talk about the OOB, as that was all I could think to take a picture of this turn [;)]

German numbers vs "real" numbers - well, one thing is ofc that that differs is that my troops have not really lost alot of troops attacking throughout -42, as the Axis did irl. And tbh was it not after -42 the German divisions were divided further, so that the loss of my 20 divisions should actually be closer to 400-500k?

USSR numbers - well....yikes... [:D]

As to the pending doom of the Axis - hehe been saying that since -41, so no surprise there. And tbh, I kind of expected it, as the previous game showed that Oloren plays a far better game than me. That being said, I see some of my faults clearly in retrospect, but that does not help me now anyhow.

If I am to bring out a few minor concerns I have with the game, it would be;
-it seems somewhat too easy to dig in in such a manner to magnify a single divisions defensive CV so much that it is beyond all reality. Might be a good thing to look at the digging speed made available imo (goes both ways ofc)
-rivers are a major obstacle during clear/mud, but when they are frozen they are not. Well, an infantry division/corps attacking acrossed an iced river is still making a long assault over completely open terrain, this would indeed cause some heavy casulties imo.

Ne3vertheless, wether I take a beating or not, and wether I have a few gripes with the game or not, I still enjoy this game, and someone has to make the "do not do this"-AARs anyway [:D]


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 71

Overall
Nothing happens this turn, my units keep playing moles, and dig dig dig.

Losses
USSR : 57.000 troops, 502 guns, 20 AFVs, 82 AC.
Axis : 18.000 troops, 71 guns, 14 AFVs, 2 AC.

Pools
Manpower : 254.677
Vehicles : 254.468
Armaments : 182.049
Hiwi : 74

Pest control
4 units pop up and are promptly delt with.

[terje439]

Turn 72

Overall
The mud is still here, so we do nothing but dig. Can anyone tell me if mud affects the digging rate of my units? It seems they dig slower now, but it might just be me that is anxious to get the new lines finished...

Losses
USSR : 58.000 troops, 461 guns, 24 AFVs, 88 AC.
Axis : 17.000 troops, 86 guns, 20 AFVs, 1 AC.

Pools
Knew I forgot to add something to my notes [:@]

Pest control
3 out of the 4 partisans that show up are chased away this turn.

[terje439]

Turn 73

Disclaimer
With nothing happening, there is really nothing to take a picture of.

Overall
Nothing changes, we keep digging, and that is about it.

Losses
USSR : 59.000 troops, 481 guns, 21 AFVs, 97 AC.
Axis : 16.000 troops, 77 guns, 9 AFVs, 2 AC.

Pools
Manpower : 269.437
Vehicle : 251.161
Armaments : 222.512
Hiwi : 97
The way I understand it, the increase in some number is due to the fact that some of the more advanced fortified zones are now being disbanded.

Pest control
We hunt down and chase away a total of 7 partisan units, leaving none on the map.