Empire of the Rising Lemon? SqzMyLemon (Japan) v Smeulders (Allies)

[Historiker]

I'm thinking of what to do in Burma. I definitely don't need to panic at this stage, but I need to come up with something spectacular...no pressure.

Invasion at Chittagong, march to Ledo.
==> "Uber-Cannae"
[;)]


Edit:

ok, I feel ashamed, now...

I read about the Emelies before my post and wondered whether "Commander Stormwolf" has his fingers in that.
Then i posted the message above.
Then I found the latest postings by CSW, which were quoted by you, so I could see them.
Then I reread my own posting here and thought: "Dman, this could've been by Stromwolf himself, the way it's written!"

[X(]

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I'm thinking of what to do in Burma. I definitely don't need to panic at this stage, but I need to come up with something spectacular...no pressure.

Invasion at Chittagong, march to Ledo.
==> "Uber-Cannae"
[;)]


Edit:

ok, I feel ashamed, now...

I read about the Emelies before my post and wondered whether "Commander Stormwolf" has his fingers in that.
Then i posted the message above.
Then I found the latest postings by CSW, which were quoted by you, so I could see them.
Then I reread my own posting here and thought: "Dman, this could've been by Stromwolf himself, the way it's written!"

[X(]

[:D] Too funny, but you didn't mention an Emily once so you are definitely not CSW.

Thanks for posting. You are very close to what I'm thinking of myself in Burma. The Allies are deep into Burma, and I was planning to load up the five divsions from Guadalcanal after operations there and use them for an Anzio like assault on the Indian coast at Akyab and marching inland. I don't think there is anything other than support units at most rearward bases. Risky as heck, but I'm not in a position to do the logical thing anymore. It all depends on how Guadalcanal goes and how quickly I can mass more troops together.

[Historiker]

I ment the style of my writing...
Sounded frighting familiar with a certain being... [X(]

Don#t forget, that for a Cannae, it isn't enough just to encircle. You also must wipe the troops out.
So to make it more than just a buying of time, you don't just need troops to cut the backyards, you'll also need troops to smash those units that are in Burma.
Also: Taking the roads behind his back is ineffective, if he finds a way to supply his forces by sea. I haven't read your AAR most of the time, but do you still have naval supremacy?

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I ment the style of my writing...
Sounded frighting familiar with a certain being... [X(]

I haven't read your AAR most of the time, but do you still have naval supremacy?

I figured you meant the writing style, so know exactly what you meant in terms of mimicking he who shall not be named. [:D]

I won't say I have naval supremacy, but I certainly haven't lost it either. I've lost the CV Hiryu, a CA, a few CL's and a handful of DD's. On the other hand, my opponent hasn't lost much either. He has all his CV's and hasn't lost a modern BB or any CA's. Any naval action we undertake is mostly likely to go either way. I just missed out on smashing his CV's unfortunately.

Anyway, I get what you mean about Burma. I'll see how Guadalcanal goes and then do an inventory of what I have a available for any move in Burma. At least I know if I'm successful on Guadalcanal the Allies will lose a division, an air HQ, a tank and engineer unit and a NZ BF.

[SqzMyLemon]

Here's a quick synopsis for March 1/43.




Taung Gyi is hit for the third day in a row with everything the Allied arsenal can throw at it. Five or six raids of various bomber mixes have reduced the airbase to 99% runway and 83% service damage.

This is probably the last day Taung Gyi will be targeted as the Allies must realize the airbase is closed, unless they want to achieve 100% service damage. I figure Toungoo will be targeted next. This delay has allowed damaged Japanese fighters to repair and recover. I should be able to put up decent numbers in it's defence. Reserve air units will be arriving shortly and I may be able to sustain two days of strong CAP in Burma. I'm withdrawing an Air HQ from Taung Gyi to Moulmein in order to facilitate air replacement and I've ordered a 20k stockpile of supply for the base.

In China, the "Other Horde" vacated the hex prior to my bombardment attack. I'm somewhat relieved to have avoided a possible Chinese assault. Given a chance to maul a much smaller Japanese force rather than simply continue to withdraw leads me to believe this enemy force has no supply. There are now 101 Chinese units in the crossroad hex east of Kunming. I will now flank this force to the south and north. There's a small chance if I move a force N.W. into the mountains I can block the secondary road leading to Chengtu. This could effectively cut off all Chinese forces in Central China if I can delay them with air attack, and I will attempt to do so.

My armour units will be in a position to harass fleeing Chinese forces in Central China under much better conditions. My biggest fear is seeing Allied 4E's appear from Burma in a ground attack role. My forces in clear and cultivated terrain could be severely mauled from air attack.

The small enemy supply TF off the coast of Carnarvon lost a second xAKL in as many days trying to reach Port Hedland. Nothing but small small fry to the enemy, but I'm sure glad to see my subs actually sinking something.

All TF's have rendezvoused at Shortlands. Everything sails today for Lunga with the bombardment TF's scheduled to hit Lunga prior to the amphibious troops unloading. Vella Lavella has reached a level 3 airbase with Munda about to reach level 4. This will allow me to put up large numbers of CAP to defend against Allied 4E's hitting my bases or ground troops. The extent of Allied air reaction will determine whether I risk bombardment TF's to hit Ndeni or Luganville, which just expanded to a level 8 airbase yesterday.

On a resource note, I just began unloading a large oil tanker TF in the Home Islands, oil reserves jumped from a 52 day low reserve back up to 63 days. Singapore also has a 400k fuel surplus, but all the other large tankers are back again to start regular shipments to the Home Islands. Fuel does not appear to be leaving Singapore in any kind of quantity to migrate overland to Fusan.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Fuel does not appear to be leaving Singapore in any kind of quantity to migrate overland to Fusan.

It won't. You have to "pull" it. Put Fusan as the home port for a bunch of ships and then put a tanker there to load. If you are shipping resources from Fusan with those xAK's using Fusan as their home port, it works perfectly.

As the fuel starts coming, keep tankers in Fusan so that you are ALWAYS loading. Never let a turn pass that you are not drawing fuel. 20 - 30 turns you will have established a good flow and you should be ok from there. Oh, and of course you need to build Fusan port to max size.

If this doesn't work, then I am suspicious if you have the route completely clear. Or you are drawing them at HK or Shanghai or somewhere else in between.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Fuel does not appear to be leaving Singapore in any kind of quantity to migrate overland to Fusan.

It won't. You have to "pull" it. Put Fusan as the home port for a bunch of ships and then put a tanker there to load. If you are shipping resources from Fusan with those xAK's using Fusan as their home port, it works perfectly.

As the fuel starts coming, keep tankers in Fusan so that you are ALWAYS loading. Never let a turn pass that you are not drawing fuel. 20 - 30 turns you will have established a good flow and you should be ok from there. Oh, and of course you need to build Fusan port to max size.

If this doesn't work, then I am suspicious if you have the route completely clear. Or you are drawing them at HK or Shanghai or somewhere else in between.

Hi Pax,

Route is clear and has been for quite some time. Fusan is also maxed out to a level 8 port.

I've been loading tankers at Fusan for some time and was routinely having 10-20k of fuel at the base and able to deliver 10k to the Home Islands every 3 days or so, but since I've actively been trying to pull fuel to Fusan and basing ships in and to the port, it's dried up to a trickle. Now, I maybe have 400-500 fuel on hand and I load no more than that a day. I'm not stockpiling or drawing fuel to any other base between Singapore and Fusan.

I've increased HI at a number of bases, but nothing that would all of a sudden use 10-20k of fuel.

I'll continue to tweak, but I'm obviously doing something wrong as Port Arthur and Keijo usually have 9-10k of fuel on hand everyday while Fusan has 400-600. I do not refuel ships at Fusan either, so it's not going into ship bunkers.

I'd always be willing to send you a game file and password if you want to take a look at things?

[PaxMondo]

Mmm, do you have a lot of ships based at either PA or Keijo?

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Mmm, do you have a lot of ships based at either PA or Keijo?

I don't use Port Arthur at all, and there's only a couple of SC's based out of Keijo. Despite having Lanchow and Sian, Port Arthur is just recently having trouble getting enough oil for the refinery, and I'm running into problems with the odd HI in China now not getting enough fuel. This is happening since trying to draw fuel/oil from Fusan over the last few weeks.

I'm baffled. [&:]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Mmm, do you have a lot of ships based at either PA or Keijo?

I don't use Port Arthur at all, and there's only a couple of SC's based out of Keijo. Despite having Lanchow and Sian, Port Arthur is just recently having trouble getting enough oil for the refinery, and I'm running into problems with the odd HI in China now not getting enough fuel. This is happening since trying to draw fuel/oil from Fusan over the last few weeks.

I'm baffled. [&:]

This really sounds like you've lost a hex side of control somewhere ....

Is HK HI running ok? How about Shanghai HI?

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Mmm, do you have a lot of ships based at either PA or Keijo?

I don't use Port Arthur at all, and there's only a couple of SC's based out of Keijo. Despite having Lanchow and Sian, Port Arthur is just recently having trouble getting enough oil for the refinery, and I'm running into problems with the odd HI in China now not getting enough fuel. This is happening since trying to draw fuel/oil from Fusan over the last few weeks.

I'm baffled. [&:]

This really sounds like you've lost a hex side of control somewhere ....

Is HK HI running ok? How about Shanghai HI?

Hi Pax,

There's no way hex side control is an issue, have you looked at China lately? [:D]

I'll set an air unit or two to recon behind the lines to check for an enemy infiltration I'm not aware of, but I highly doubt the possiblity. Hong Kong and Shanghai are humming along nicely. Fusan has no problem drawing resources as I get fresh infusions regularly. Burma's production has been turned off. I don't want oil flowing there.

I've been tracking some data for obvert and have almost a month's worth. I'll post it here later. Nothing too fancy, just a tally of daily fuel/oil/resource totals at these bases: Singapore, Bangkok, Saigon, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Port Arthur, Keijo and Fusan. I may start working more on the spreadsheet to account for daily industry use and track any resources imported/exported from them. Maybe this will shed some light on things and at least provide some hard numbers. Singapore and Fusan will be the toughest, as I've not accounted for the impact of import/export in the totals.

I'm not an economist. [:-][:D]

[PaxMondo]

Yeah, please do.  Fusan can get a ton of resources from MAN, doesn't mean it is pulling from Singers.  Fuel though, that has to come from Burma/Singers.  A little oil can come from MAN as well.
 
If HK and Shanghai are getting FUEL, then IF there is a break it is between Shanghai and Fusan.  You can turn the hexside control on (I forget the key) and then for me, get a magnifying glass and start inspecting along the rail line.
 
Its suspicious that it was better and now worse ... makes me think a hex side flipped.  either because a unit or because a ghost ... either way that's where I would look.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Yeah, please do.  Fusan can get a ton of resources from MAN, doesn't mean it is pulling from Singers.  Fuel though, that has to come from Burma/Singers.  A little oil can come from MAN as well.

If HK and Shanghai are getting FUEL, then IF there is a break it is between Shanghai and Fusan.  You can turn the hexside control on (I forget the key) and then for me, get a magnifying glass and start inspecting along the rail line.

I work with excel in my job, but don't have the energy to sex this one up. I'll work on some formula's and such and reorganize the format to add import and export numbers from transport TF's and account for what is used at each base. You can see the drop off for Fusan around Feb. 14/43. I have two tankers loading oil and fuel, they've been at it for days now and they are small 5k capacity ones.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

You can turn the hexside control on

It's the "w" key.

[PaxMondo]

OK, looking at your sheet, doesn't appear that anything is leaving Singers.  You need to look at the hexsides all the way from Singers.  From your sheet, not sure that you are clear even to Bangkok.  Take any unit in Singers and see if you can set it up to strat to Phnom Penh.  If it takes the order, then that is clear.  Do the same from Saigon to LangSon.  etc.  You can check your RR that way.  If all of those look good, then check the hexsides on all the roadways.  Something isn't clear somewhere.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

OK, looking at your sheet, doesn't appear that anything is leaving Singers.  You need to look at the hexsides all the way from Singers.  From your sheet, not sure that you are clear even to Bangkok.  Take any unit in Singers and see if you can set it up to strat to Phnom Penh.  If it takes the order, then that is clear.  Do the same from Saigon to LangSon.  etc.  You can check your RR that way.  If all of those look good, then check the hexsides on all the roadways.  Something isn't clear somewhere.

Not sure about this. What could be in the way? I have similar issues (with much less documentation or time to let it go) and I have sent units up these railroads and down the roads all along the route.

Fusan pulls so far from Port Arthur and leaves several industry centers in Manchuria short of fuel occasionally.

I have more supply and resources in Singapore, some 900k resources, 250k Fuel and 150k oil (just from memory) and several CS convoys dumping there continuously.

I have a lot of ships based there and have been pulling stuff out by sea (I know this won't help). I know this won't help either. But I can't just wait for a year either.

----------------------

Joseph, looks like your refinery at Port Arthur may need a shipment as well, as it looks like it might be running below full capacity. Or maybe a dump of fuel for the factories up there in Harbin, etc.

[PaxMondo]

Mmmm.  Not sure.  It might be that the resource movement AI is "stickier" than I know.  Meaning, once it gets a route in place, it doesn't like to change.
 
I start my resource/fuel pull from Fusan on Dec 7/8 and my oil pull about Dec 10.  That might explain why it works for me.  I get the AI going from the start.  I don't ever load anything from Shanghai, HK, or Singers except troops.  I drop off, but not load.  In fact, I move the Taiwan oil to Amoy and drop it off there and then reload it at Fusan. 
 
Last thing I can think of is total base size matters.  Port+AF+1/3 Fort  is the formula used for this I beleive.  I max out Fusan port, then AF, then forts.

[Historiker]

Why do you get fuel and oil out of Fusan? Isn't the mainland short on it anyways?
I know, to draw from Singapore, but has this ever worked in the last games?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Historiker
I know, to draw from Singapore, but has this ever worked in the last games?

Worked for me with the last beta patch (now official) ... but I'm committed to it from day 1.

[Historiker]

how much is moving? How big are the losses to transport fuel over bad roads?