Whatiffery

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dwg
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Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

A few fairly reasonable what-ifs for folks to consider introducing into their scenarios.

First up is the K25G design proposed during the development of the Colony Class light cruisers (aka Fiji class), this had 7 twin 5.25" turrets (four forward, three aft), which would have made it a fairly effective CLAA. I'd suggest adding no more than a couple to the RN (suggested names: HMS Hong Kong, HMS Gold Coast), or replacing historical Colony class CLs on a 1 for 1 basis. Basic stats are shown below, I'd suggest following the same set of refits as for the Colonies for later refits.



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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

K25G Side (all images are BMPs, but labelled as JPGs)



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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

K25G Shil



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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

Next the Handley Page HP.55. The HP.55 was Handley Page's submission for the B.1/35 requirement for a twin-engined heavy bomber able to reach speeds to 230mph while carrying a heavier bombload than the B.3/34. The competition was won by the Vickers 284, an enlarged Wellington derivative which ultimately became the Warwick, but the Handley Page design was regarded favourably and was one of three prototypes commissioned on 7th October 1935 (alongside the Armstrong Whitworth AW.39 development of the Whitley and the Vickers Warwick). The HP.55 could be powered by either the Hercules or the Merlin, had a wingspan of 95 feet, and was expected to have a top speed of 251mph. However the contracts for both AW.39 and HP.55 were cancelled in June 1937. Armstrong Whitworth felt they had taken on too much work to be able to tender to the new B.12/36 heavy bomber requirement, while Handley Page's attention had drifted to the P.13/36 medium bomber and they wished to redesign the HP.55 to meet the new requirement (which they ultimately did as first the twin-engined HP.56, and then the four engined HP.57 Halifax).

By contrast with the manufacturers, the Air Ministry did not want to cancel the B.1/35 contracts and turned down the initial request. Although they finally gave in to their contractors, the HP.55 could easily have flown. If it had been adopted, then the near certainty is that it would have taken the name of a town starting with H, I've chose Huntingdon, but other names are possible. The development history of the Warwick gives us a likely pattern for the HP.55. The prototypes were originally due to fly in 1937, but in 1936 the Air Ministry increased the required fuel and bombload, then in 1937 started to move away from the Hercules and towards the Vulture and the Sabre which promised higher performance, finally settling on the Vulture in late 1938. The first prototype Warwick eventually flew with Vultures in August 1939, the second with Bristol Centaurus, following in April 1940. At one point in 1939 it was proposed to abandon any plan for production, but eventually orders were placed for 250 in December 1940, though the failure of the Vulture and scarcity of the Centaurus meant that they would have to use the inferior Double Wasp. An HP.55 that followed the Warwick's development path would likely have failed for identical reasons, but if it had been delivered as originally intended in 1937, then there might have been a brief opening for it as a partial replacement for the Wellington before the later four-engined heavies came on line. It makes a suitable replacement for squadrons equipped with the Wellington or Blenheim.

The aircraft is shown in the colours of Halifax Q-Queenie of No. 446 Squadron, RAAF, with Bomber Command's No. 4 Group at Driffield in 1944-5, based on the HP.55 illustration in British Secret Projects:3.



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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

HP.55 Side

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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

HP.55 Top

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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

HP.55 Top Alpha



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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

The next aircraft is a combination of two separate update proposals for the Lysander. The 20mm cannon fit, with two naked Hispanos scabbed on to the side of the spats actually made it out to at least some Lysander squadrons, but appears not to have been used in combat. Meanwhile the P.12 Lysander replaced the aft fuselage and tail with a Delanne wing and a Boulton Paul rear turret for potential use as a 'beach strafer' if the Germans had attempted to invade. The P.12 apparently had very similar handling to the default Lysander and was looped on its first flight. There appears to be no reason the cannon fit could not have been applied to the P.12, potentially creating a Lysander FB.IV, which might be a suitable upgrade for the Indian AF Lysander squadrons.



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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

Lysander FB.IV Side

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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

Lysander FB.IV top

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dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

Lysander FB.IV Top Alpha



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Commander Stormwolf
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by Commander Stormwolf »


planes look nice

just be careful to make some calculations from the increased weight,
2x20mm Hispano would make the Lysander a fair bit slower
"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf
Commander Stormwolf
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:11 pm

RE: Whatiffery

Post by Commander Stormwolf »



one question

where do I put the new art files in?

I have the side and top art for the Ki-64 Rob [8D]

but I cannot find the folder to put those art files into [X(]
"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf
dwg
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:35 am

RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

where do I put the new art files in?

/art/alliedplanes

File names: A_PlaneSideXXXX.bmp, ApTopXXXX.bmp, ApTop_AlphaXXXX.bmp, where XXXX is the ID for the aircraft.
danlongman
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by danlongman »

In whatiffery you have left out the most important what if of aviation in WWII:

What if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly?
"Patriotism: Your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw
dwg
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:35 am

RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

just be careful to make some calculations from the increased weight,
2x20mm Hispano would make the Lysander a fair bit slower

Speed would be affected by drag rather than weight, the Hispano has a low frontal area, and even the wetted side area for parasitic drag is pretty small - think of it as a length of scaffolding pole with a spring around the outside Image. The only significant frontal area is actually the magazine, and that's no worse than any of the bombs carried externally by either the Lysander or other aircraft, and significantly smaller than the spats. If we want to start modelling things like changes in performance with external load, then we really should be measuring larger effects such as changes in performance with altitude.

What weight will affect is acceleration and ceiling, but the mass of the two guns is very small in relation to the mass of the aircraft (Lysander MTOW = 2877Kg, 2xHispanos=86Kg). The system doesn't measure acceleration and the Lysander typically operated at a fraction of its ceiling.
dwg
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

ORIGINAL: danlongman

In whatiffery you have left out the most important what if of aviation in WWII:

What if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly?

Going to guess I lack the cultural context for that one!
Commander Stormwolf
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RE: Whatiffery

Post by Commander Stormwolf »


1) speed is most definitely affected by weight

2) your 2xHispano(86kg) + Ammo (0.25 kg/round assuming 120 rounds per gun) = 146 kg

3) if it's guns, they are not jettisoned and are part of the armament and normal loaded weight of the AC


by my calculations,

if your starting speed was 230 mph it will reduce to about 223 mph

(not major difference [:)])
"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf
Commander Stormwolf
Posts: 1623
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:11 pm

RE: Whatiffery

Post by Commander Stormwolf »


actually that number is assuming no extra air resistance,

but externally hung cannons normally cause that --> BF-110 with 37mm guns as example
"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf
dwg
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:35 am

RE: Whatiffery

Post by dwg »

ORIGINAL: dwg
where do I put the new art files in?

/art/alliedplanes

File names: A_PlaneSideXXXX.bmp, ApTopXXXX.bmp, ApTop_AlphaXXXX.bmp, where XXXX is the ID for the aircraft.

Whoops, that's not as clear as it might be. Try, 'where XXXX is the bitmap number for the aircraft' - so you need to find an unused bitmap number, set that in the data for the aircraft and set the filenames to match.
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