Japanese Airframes - late '43 and beyond

[ny59giants]

In one PBEM game I'm in August '43 and just started another game as Japan. What I'm looking for is a list of what airframes from late '43 and beyond that are to be produced (not necessary to know what amount), some that may be produced, and those that you will not produce.

[Commander Stormwolf]

Must produce:

Ki-84
H8K
Ki-46-III
A6M5

Can produce:

B6N
Ki-49
A6M3a

Don't produce:

Ki-48
Ki-21
Ki-43

[Shark7]

A second opinion for you:

As generally accepted, the Ki-43 is not a good late war fighter, but it does have one redeeming quality...it's range. It can still go the distance with the 2Es so it makes it useful as an escort. That in itself increases the chances the 2Es get through, as the fighters will tie up some of the cap.

Ki-48 has a dive bomber variant...you might want to make some of those, they tend to be more accurate when attacking.

Also take into consideration your engines and production...sometimes its better to keep producing an older aircraft to use up the back stock of engines; especially when it comes to 2Es versus fighters...produce older 2Es if new ones would cut into new fighter engines.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

In one PBEM game I'm in August '43 and just started another game as Japan. What I'm looking for is a list of what airframes from late '43 and beyond that are to be produced (not necessary to know what amount), some that may be produced, and those that you will not produce.

My comments are for airframes that I've had or will shortly have experience with. Thus they exclude circa 1945 IJ production-I've no experience with those airframes.

IJAAF:

Ki-44IIc: Good to produce in numbers. With its increased armament (equivalent to 4x .50CA), it is a more effective bomber interceptor than the Ki-44IIa, yet retains its very important SR of 1. This will be my primary IJAAF fighter replacement until the Franks come on line a few months into 1944. As you probably know, the IIb is worthless-skip it.

Ki-61d: Sweet armament package, but poor SR and manueverability. I'm still building some, but this is just for 'airframe diversification'.

Frank: Probably the best fighter series that the IJAAF fielded. Too little too late IRL, but you can see to it that it's "plenty, right on time" for your game. Great armament, good armor, good manueverability and speed. Annoying SR, but-IIRC-this gets better with the 'r' model.

Oscar series: Dated. Great manueverability, good SR, poor armament (gets a little better in the later models, but you can do better). I'm producing these in number because of the IIa and IIb bomb load (2x250kg) and speed. Other players have commented that they make very effective kamikazes, so I'm loading up my pools with this in mind. They've got no business being on the front line facing Corsairs or (worse yet) P47D2s.

IJNAF:

J2M series: Great manueverability, reasonably good armament (particularly in the J2M5 IIRC). Poor service rating. I view this as I do the Tonys of the IJAAF-a nicety, but could be done without. I may reconsider the value when I get the "Raiden J2M5", as that has a rep for being a superb fighter aircraft.

N1K1/2 series: N1K1 is a must produce for bomber intercept. N1K2-KAI series is arguably one of the best fighter types serving the Axis in the Pacific. Beware the limited upgradeability to this airframe-I've found this to be an annoying limitation.

No comments about the Ki-100, A7M, Shindens or other late war fighters, as I have zero experience with those and haven't read much about their comparative value. Rader did cite some opinions on his AAR v. Greyjoy, so I'd yield to his experiences.

[Hanzberger]

And hopefully you have DL a copy of my Wire chart~! [X(]

[Commander Stormwolf]

J7W shinden will do a great deal to redress the quality of AC, provided you have any good pilots left

[KenchiSulla]

Army:

Fighters must build
KI-84
KI-44IIC

Fighters can build
KI-43IIb (escort)

Bombers must build
KI-49IIb

Transports must build
KI-49II KAI

Recon must build
KI-46-III Dinah

Navy:

Fighters must build
N1K (George)
A6M (latest version to escort your carrier based long range divebombers/torpedo bombers)

Fighters can build
A6M3a (depending on pool and torpedo bomber preference, I use these to escort Betties due to excellent range)

Carrier capable Dive Bombers must build
D4Y

Carrier capable torpedo bombers must build
B6N

Land based torpedo bombers must build
P1Y

Land based torpedo bombers can build
G4M

Patrol must build
H8K

Transport must build
H8K

[pharmy]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Army:

Fighters can build
KI-43IIb (escort)

ORIGINAL: Shark7

A second opinion for you:

As generally accepted, the Ki-43 is not a good late war fighter, but it does have one redeeming quality...it's range. It can still go the distance with the 2Es so it makes it useful as an escort. That in itself increases the chances the 2Es get through, as the fighters will tie up some of the cap.

I was shocked to see the MVR ratings at high altitude Its 31 still at 21k-31k which according to most HRs is usable ~ 1 above best alt band. I say use also it as the high portion of your layer fighter CAP as well. And its successor even adds +1 to this. Almost stopped producing it as its weak armament leaves a lot to be desired, but a fighter driven off/damaged gets me one step closer to the bombers.

[Miller]

The N1K2 George is the real killer. The only fighter to carry 4 x 20MM cannon with a 2 service rating before 45. Should be able to get it by 8/44 if you research it heavily......cant wait for it to come online in my game!

[pharmy]

By the way, is there any reason to change my standard strafing FB from the Ki 45 Nick A ? All the other FBs (ncluding Nick B,C) come with horribly inaccurate large caliber cannons (except the late late Ki119). I don't think anything strafes better then a Nick and I find it very useful against large units moving in the open.

With Ki-48 DB, they seem to be the answer to ground support for Japan throughout the war.

[wege80]

Don't know if this is important for you but as stated in the AAR of PzBR and Andy Mac it seems as if the range of the 2 early D4Y Judy's has been nerfed and so it would be a good thing to accelerate the R&D of the B7A Grace to get the strike range advantage back (8 hexes or so). With the A6M5 and the B6N2 its possible to strike 8 hexes (the max strike distance) and the D4Y1 and 2 only being able to fly 5 or 6 hexes or so ... this puts you in danger of strikes from the allied CV's ...
Also the B7A is able to fly torpedo as well as dive bomb runs too ...

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

With Ki-48 DB, they seem to be the answer to ground support for Japan throughout the war.

Look at the bomb load of DB Ki-48, it's just 2 x 100 kg. I won't call that answer to anything.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

With Ki-48 DB, they seem to be the answer to ground support for Japan throughout the war.

Look at the bomb load of DB Ki-48, it's just 2 x 100 kg. I won't call that answer to anything.

They work ok for attacking transports, not much else though.

[pharmy]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

With Ki-48 DB, they seem to be the answer to ground support for Japan throughout the war.

Look at the bomb load of DB Ki-48, it's just 2 x 100 kg. I won't call that answer to anything.

They work ok for attacking transports, not much else though.

I mean to use them in China/Burma vs infantry ground troops, or AF attacks, just like my nicks (I'm in mid-42 now) Its just that you see all these awful accuracy levels on the 57mm and 75mm, you'd be lucky to get a single hit on armor or a ship. Plus flying in at 14000 feet beats flying in at low level for accuracy (so flak-wise the Ki-48 seems a safer ship)

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Army:

Fighters can build
KI-43IIb (escort)

ORIGINAL: Shark7

A second opinion for you:

As generally accepted, the Ki-43 is not a good late war fighter, but it does have one redeeming quality...it's range. It can still go the distance with the 2Es so it makes it useful as an escort. That in itself increases the chances the 2Es get through, as the fighters will tie up some of the cap.

I was shocked to see the MVR ratings at high altitude Its 31 still at 21k-31k which according to most HRs is usable ~ 1 above best alt band. I say use also it as the high portion of your layer fighter CAP as well. And its successor even adds +1 to this. Almost stopped producing it as its weak armament leaves a lot to be desired, but a fighter driven off/damaged gets me one step closer to the bombers.

I don't place a high value on maneuver. Other features are more significant. Speed, firepower, durability. Maneuver I would place at the end of the list. Speed is number one.

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Puhis




Look at the bomb load of DB Ki-48, it's just 2 x 100 kg. I won't call that answer to anything.

They work ok for attacking transports, not much else though.

I mean to use them in China/Burma vs infantry ground troops, or AF attacks, just like my nicks (I'm in mid-42 now) Its just that you see all these awful accuracy levels on the 57mm and 75mm, you'd be lucky to get a single hit on armor or a ship. Plus flying in at 14000 feet beats flying in at low level for accuracy (so flak-wise the Ki-48 seems a safer ship)

Dive bomber Ki-48 is crap, 2 x 100 kg bombload is useless vs. infantry units. It's much better to use level bombers with 4 x 250 kg, or even fighters or fighter-bombers with 2 x 250 kg bombs.

Dive bombers actually suffer heavier losses than level bombers flying at 6000 feet, because DBs release bombs at 1000...4000 feet. You don't have to worry about flak in China, but allied units in Burma might have lot of flak guns.

[pharmy]

Except for the fact that the data on it is wrong

The II could carry double the bomb weight - yet the Ki-48I has 4 x100 INT and the Ki48II has 2 x100.
Ki 48 I Normal 660 lbs (300 kg) of bombs, usually 24 33 lb (15 kg) bombs or 6 110 lb (50 kg) bombs
Maximum 880 lbs (400 kg) of bombs
Ki 48 IIb -maximum of 800 kgs - since size was not increased, only engines upgraded, probably on hardpoints. I'll go check out Francillion and anything else I can find. This is an obvious mistake. The internal bomb bay should still be able to carry 4x100kg. By the way the upcoming RHS mod has it with many small bombs for IJA bombers. Found an old discussion on it
tm.asp?m=1500259

EDIT - it might be that the divebreak fitted version had external hardpoints, but its hard to believe they were only of 100 kg load bearing capacity
Edit two RA 3.2 has it correctly at 4x100 (but the new dababes lite and stock have it at 2x100kg
Edit 3 http://japaneseaircraft.devhub.com/blog ... -48-redux/
he principal differences between the Ki.48-I and -II were to be found in the engines, defensive armament and armour protection. The new model had Nakajima Ha.115 fourteen-cylinder air-cooled radials rated at 1,130 h.p. for take-off and 1,100 h;p. at 9,350 ft., the fuel tanks were protected, and 12.5-mm. and 6.5-mm. fore and aft armour protection was provided for the crew members. Initially the defensive armament remained a trio of 7.7-mm. guns, but the additional power permitted an increase in bomb load to 1,760 lb. in maximum loaded condition. Whereas the Type 99 Model 2a (Ki.48-IIa) was built as a level bomber, the Model 2b (Ki.48-IIb) was fitted with dive brakes under each wing, and was capable of dive-bombing attacks up to an angle of sixty degrees. Late production machines of this type featured a dorsal fin extension. The Model 2c (Ki.48-IIc) was essentially similar to the Model 2b apart from the addition of a single 12.7-mm. gun to the defensive armament.

Jet and Fighter variants

The Type 99 Model 2 was soon active wherever the JAAF appeared, and in 1944, four machines were modified as parent aircraft for the Kawasaki-built I-Go-lb guided missile which entered production in January, 1945, the Type 99 with bomb-bay doors removed serving as its principal carrier. One machine was modified as a flying test bed for the Ne.00, the first indigenous turbojet, and among several proposed variants which did not materialise was the Ki.81 heavy multi-seat fighter variant. Heavily armed and armoured, the Ki.81 was designed for the exclusive use of the formation leader. When production finally terminated in October, 1944, no less than 1,408 Type 99 Model 2 bombers had been built, bringing total production of all Ki.48 aircraft, including prototypes, to 1,977 machines.


The Type 99 Model 2c (Ki.48-IIc) possessed the following overall dimensions: span, 57 ft. 3 ¾ in.; length, 42 ft. 2 ¾ in.; height, 12 ft. 0 ½ in.; wing area, 430.556 sq. ft. Defensive armament comprised one 7.7-mm. machine gun with 600 rounds in the nose, two 7,7-mm. or one 12.7-mm. machine gun in the dorsal position, and one 7.7-mm. machine gun with 500 rounds in the ventral position. Alternative bomb loads comprised six 110-lb. bombs or four 220-lb. bombs, and empty and maximum loaded weights were 10,031 lb. and 14,881 lb. Performance included a maximum speed of 314 m.p.h. at 18,372 ft., the ability to climb to 16,400 ft. at maximum loaded weight in 9 min. 56 sec., a maximum ceiling of 32,800 ft., and a maximum range of 1,490 miles.

[pharmy]

deleted embedded pic Francillon reference pg 1

[pharmy]

embedded pic deleted - link left

[ny59giants]

With no turns in my inbox this morning, I pulled up Tracker for RA version 4.5 and am going through airframes one by one. This post will be all navy as this a naval mod after all. [;)]

NAVY
NightFighters (NF) - The candidates are J1N1-S Irving (9/43); A6M8-S Zero (4/44); D4Y2-S Judy (6/44); P1Y2-S Frances; C6N1-S Myrt (5/45); and S1A1 Denko (1/46). Since each already has a factory for them, are there any you would convert over?? Is there one that is the one that you use almost exclusively??

A7M2 Series has a factory for all three models. The M3J is non-CV capable, but has 4x 30mm cannons. Keep how many factories??

C6N1/2 Myrt vs D4Y1/2-C Judy - Both are CV capable, but is worth a factory for the Myrt (8/44) just because it has extra range and radar?? With drop tanks, the Myrt has 21/30 vs the Judy 17/21.

The D4Y5 Judy (5/45) vs the D5Y1 Myojo (11/45). Is the Myojo worthy of a factory??

Once the last Nell, G3M4-Q (4/43), is out, do you wait until the Betty, G4M2 (6/43), comes out in sufficient numbers that you convert the Nell factory to something else??

The G4M2e (11/44) carries the Ohka 11 vs a torpedo. Do they get any hits??

The big 4e bomber, G8N1 Rita, is available in 4/45. How much R&D would you do??

I think we all agree that the Emily will be both Patrol and Transporter for the Navy. Right??

Float Fighters (FF) - Is it worth going from A6M2-N Rufe (4/42) to N1K1 Rex (5/43)?? What role do FFs have for you??

Of course the George series, N1K1, will be produced. I will need to figure out how many factories for R&D.

Likewise, the Frances series, P1Y1, will be produced. But again, what amount of R&D??

Very late war fighters are:
J6M1 (9/45) - spd 438 - 41k ceiling - 2x 20mm & 2x 30mm cannon
J7W1 Shinden (12/45) - spd 466 - 39k ceiling - 4x 30mm cannon
J8M1 Shusei (12/45) - spd 559 - 39k ceiling - 2x 30mm cannon - range only 1 (CAP)
Any reason why I would not produce all three??

Late war level bombers:
Q1W1 Lorna (4/44) - slow, but gets MAD and radar for ASW work - 2x 250kg bombs
Yasukuni (11/44) - TT - don't see why this would replace Frances??
Toka (12/45) - 1x 800kg bomb - SR 1 - Spd 385
Kikka (1/46) - 1x 800kg bomb - SR 5 - Spd 433
I will produce the Lorna to help with ASW, but what about the other three??

I have at least 6 factories that I feel I can convert and may have more if I get feedback on those listed. There will be more after some of the early war airframes are replaced.