Wild Sheep Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

With the provision that an even trade is a sure victory for the Allies, it looks like Jocke probably won this battle.

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

A 1:1 loss in CVs is a no win for Japan. If he can get either Yorktown or Enterprise back to Suva and is able to salvage her, then you will have even a great loss than you have now. But, not till '44.[;)]

Exactly my feelings! hard to handle, but it's the game. Only a few well aimed torpedoes could make this a tactical victory, but strategically it's surely a loss. I feel at least it's late enough in 42 that it will keep him from launching anything before the Essex's get online anyway, considering he also had losses. But yes, for later 43 onward, it's a big loss for the Japanese.

I'm getting used to that! [;)]

PS - The one caveat is that I have already bought Soryu's zero group back, and will buy all others back immediately if and when they go under. It can't replace the mobility of CVs, but my centers of LBA are at least becoming very well established in South and Central Pacific. The 4Es will have their say, but I might be able to still fight with some tools into 44 and delay the inevitable collapse until 45. That is the goal.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by Crackaces »

The Americans in "Servere Storms" and the IJ in "light/heavy rain" .. it seems the weather favored the Allies in this clash resulting in an even trade it looks like .. with the exception of the Essex class CV's now in queue .. [8D]
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]18 November 1942[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A little bit more sure about the Big E after today.

subs: The Gato puts Shokaku out of her misery. Zuikaku also went under in spite of my hopes that her fires would go out and she could make it.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Efate at 124,154

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Gato

CV Shokaku is sighted by SS Gato
SS Gato launches 6 torpedoes

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[/font]

The I-176 nearly made the day a lot better, but I have had terrible luck with subs actually following through and hitting capital ships.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Nadi at 130,160

Japanese Ships
SS I-176, hits 3

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales
DD Nepal
DD Foxhound


SS I-176 launches 6 torpedoes at BB Prince of Wales
DD Nepal fails to find sub and abandons search

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[/font]

The I-20 nails a DD. Not what we were looking for either!

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Nadi at 130,161

Japanese Ships
SS I-20

Allied Ships
DD Bailey, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Stuart

SS I-20 launches 6 torpedoes at DD Bailey
I-20 diving deep ....
DD Stuart fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Stuart fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Stuart attacking submerged sub ....
DD Stuart fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Stuart fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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[/font]

This was fun. The escorts forced the KVII to surface and nailed her with gunfire!

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Ambrym at 122,151

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
CLAA Tatsuta
CLAA Tenryu
CS Chiyoda
DD Suzukaze
DD Yamakaze

Allied Ships
SS KVII, hits 13, and is sunk



SS KVII is sighted by escort
KVII diving deep ....
DD Suzukaze fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Yamakaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yamakaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yamakaze attacking submerged sub ....
DD Yamakaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yamakaze attacking submerged sub ....
DD Yamakaze attacking submerged sub ....
DD Yamakaze is out of ASW ammo
DD Yamakaze is out of ASW ammo
DD Yamakaze is out of ASW ammo
SS KVII forced to surface!
DD Suzukaze firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Suzukaze firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Suzukaze firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Suzukaze firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/font]

So Pac: Finally, in an 8 hex attack, our Kates made the exchange a little more bearable. If the Big E can survive this, she is truly as lucky as her real life counterpart.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Yasawa Islands at 127,157

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37
B5N2 Kate x 50



Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 4 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB North Carolina, Bomb hits 1
CA Quincy, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CLAA Atlanta, Bomb hits 1, on fire

DD McCalla
DD Patterson, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
DD Craven, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Cushing, Bomb hits 1, on fire




Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring an Allied BB
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Patterson

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[/font]

All in all, not a bad day, and subs are moving to pick up any more pieces that fall too slowly back to Suva. Even after that, these heavily damaged ships will not be able to be repaired much here, and will have a long journey to the nearest shipyard big enough to handle them.

Can Auckland be built big enough, or would he have to take them to Sydney?

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The Americans in "Servere Storms" and the IJ in "light/heavy rain" .. it seems the weather favored the Allies in this clash resulting in an even trade it looks like .. with the exception of the Essex class CV's now in queue .. [8D]

That's about it. Although, the reaction by Tamon Yamaguchi also changed things up a lot. It split the CAP and probably made attacks come in smaller than they might have were both groups in one hex. Also, the US attack might have hit more ships, but each less hard, which would have surely been preferable. This is the biggest issue in the exchange for me. But I learned something from it, so that's fine. I'll take it and move forward.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: obvert

In spite of these precautions, the massive CV TFs were not seen on sigint or through search. His CVs were in three TFs, two in one hex and one in another. Unofrtunately for me, there were severe storms over all of his carriers and only moderate rains over mine. I'm not sure if this is why so few of my planes flew, ...
This likely accounts for 99% of it. Remember, aircraft at this time were not all weather. Storms can, and did, hide TF's. Both sides used them to their advantage throughout the war. In game, it is really hard to account for them.

One of the faults of the game engine with respect weather is that when under severe storms TF can't be detected (absolutely correct), but they also shouldn't be able to launch (which they often do). 30 ft swells pretty much puts the damper on flight op's in this era. The only thing you can do as a player (that I know of, looking for other inputs here), is to be sure your weather in on for the hexes and just ASSUME the enemy CV's are there where they can launch, but not be attacked effectively, and plan accordingly. This adds a big twist in plotting TF movement ....

I have found that if I really push a lot of Search into a storm area I can get some visibility, but it takes a LOT.

So, this result is historically accurate in that you couldn't see him to attack effectively. However, you have to stretch here a bit and say that the enemy jumped out of the "soup", launched his attack and then ducked back into the storms again for cover. Possible, definitely possible, ... but it seems to happen a bit too frequently.

Anyway, it's happened and now you have to work with the pieces.

Good news!! you've had your mini-Midway 5 months later than historical and you aren't as bad off as history. Your losses are less, and you appear to have gotten at least one and maybe 2 allied CV's.

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by PaxMondo »

As Mike, stated, this set back really won't hurt you for another year.  So, your expansion stops a couple of months early.  No big deal.  Start ramping up your defensive posture.  Buy those air groups back our ASAP.  You'll need them and with Graces and Georges they will be good units for you.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by obvert »

My thoughts exactly Pax. It is just one of those things you can't always control in the game, and I'm learning a lot more about those things! But even with those issues we also did some damage. There is still a shot to do more as these ships potentially leave the area. Subs will be concentrated near there for a long time, as well as on the approaches to Auckland and Sydney.

It doesn't really make me too upset. If I had creamed the Allied TFs and not lost mine it would have made me a lot happier, but really this game is so much about time. Almost to 43, I have several accelerated CVs coming up in early 43. The Judy (!) and A6M5 in 2/43 at least, and the Jill just after that. There is a lot to look forward to and the Allies are not in a good position to take advantage of this exchange quite yet. They have to focus now on how to save 1 and maybe 2 CVs. Build back air and pilot pools from massive losses of SBDs especially.

My defenses are getting stronger everyday. I was praying he would have come after me with the rest of his healthy TFs as there are 100 Netties in the Tulagi area plus about 80 Zeros and 30 Nicks and Ndeni. That would have been unwise. He probably wanted me to do the same.

I still hold Noumea with strength. I will try to extricate the division and brigade from Anatom and leave an SNLF there. That may have to be in dribs and drabs until I know where CVs are again. I have many of the lost CVs air groups still in partial strength units, which can augment defenses until the full strength groups arrive.

I've learned a bit, and have had some fun. Now the remains of the KB will have to go into hiding to make sure he doesn't know what I have or where it could turn up.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]20 November 1942[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A few more bits of follow-up and then some picking up of pieces.

subs: The I-20 got a look at the NC, shot a spread of 8 (!) but couldn't put one on target. Again a missed capital ship! The only good thing about this is the small bit of intel that the Enterprise is not sighted with these ships. Even after taking 3 torpedoes on the first day of attacks, it stayed with it's escorts and NC. There were some anonymous sinking sounds later in this turn. There were a few Allied ships close, but none closer than Enterprise.

A trap set for subs leaving the DEI caught one today, and Pickerel looks to be done.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Suva at 131,161

Japanese Ships
SS I-20, hits 1

Allied Ships
BB North Carolina
CA Portland
DD Henley
DD Benham



SS I-20 launches 8 torpedoes at BB North Carolina
DD Benham fails to find sub, continues to search...

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ASW attack near Denpasar at 59,108

Japanese Ships
SC Ch 15
SC Ch 33
SC Ch 28

Allied Ships
SS Pickerel, hits 4, heavy damage



SS Pickerel is sighted by escort
Pickerel bottoming out ....
SC Ch 33 fails to find sub and abandons search
SC Ch 28 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 28 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 28 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 28 attacking submerged sub ....
Debris floats to surface in area of attack!
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/font]

So Pac: At Anatom 4Es hit the fields hard. There are about 65 engineers here though, so he'll have to work hard to shut this down consistently. I'm not planning on using the fields anyway.

All remnants of sunk CV groups are gathering at Munda to be put back together. There are some bigger useful chunks. Some planes are still caught getting repaired at Luganville, and I'm just waiting for Jocke to bomb that to dust.

One good thing is that neither the Junyo or the Ryujo will need to head to the HI to repair. The AR at Tulagi can fix both and they should be ready in less than a month.

The plan is to set lines of Glen subs South of Suva, to the West near Noumea, and to the East between the Fiji islands and Pago Pago. If conditions are right there is a chance many more could vector in.

The Hiryu and Shoho are on their way back to the Solomons. I've been thinking about numbers, and until the Hellcat arrives, I may still have a slight advantage before any damaged Allied CV is repaired. This will only mean that I can defend my own territory more or less. Subs will have to do the hunting for wounded ships.

Hornet - 100
Saratoga - 100
Lexington- 100
CVEs? - 20-60?
----------------------
320-60

Kaga - 80
Akagi - 80
Hiryu - 65
Junyo - 52
Hiyo - 52
Ryujo - 48
Zuiho - 30
Ryuho - 30
Shoho - 30
---------------
467

Burma: At Katha 25 P-40K swept to hit bleeding CAP. No planes are based there.

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by Historiker »

Were your KB-bombers still on ASW duty when the battle happened?
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]21 November 1942[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

subs: My subs continue to ply the channel near Nadi and Suva. Something parked in Nadi, which is new. He had no ships there previously, so I'm sure that is an injured one. I'll recon to see.

So Pac: Just getting sorted which ships get repairs first really. I keep having the thought that he could raid up here in the idea of hitting a bunch in the port at Tulagi. Then I think about the hundreds of planes in the area and realize this might not be a good choice on his part. Kind of the same as me trying to raid Suva with it's 150 P-39s!

JPC: Supply is flowing into the mountains now. From both sides. I dropped about 50k into Rangoon and Hong Kong near the same time, and that has pushed all bases out of the red and yellow flag state. Finally. Mengtze is nearly an airbase. I like the small rail network up here through Kunming to the bases on each side. If bases in Burma are crushed it gives another good option and from the bomber bases he uses currently it is out of range of the 2Es.

I'm thinking supply must still be an issue for KMT troops in the central reserve. He only has about 180 total LI points working, and no fuel to supply the Chunking HI. So almost 800k soldiers still might never get into fighting shape.

How much can the Allies bring over the hump with a concerted effort in 43-44. Maybe 150-200 supply points a day, using all available transports?

Burma: As with the mountains all bases in Burma now have supply to go our of the red/yellow stage. Forts are getting into the level 4 range for most bases. Some higher. The oil at Magwe is down to 43 after the recent bombing, but amazingly is still churning out some of the stuff. I'll let the fuel stay in Rangoon now to fuel the fleet, and try to draw some to ports along the peninsula.

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Were your KB-bombers still on ASW duty when the battle happened?

I used the Hosho group as an ASW specialty group since there were no torps there. Some groups that had been around for a while and had good ASW were on Naval Bombing (torps) 10% ASW and 10% search.

During the turn I had several turning back due to weather/unable to find target kinds of things. The severe storms seemed to be the biggest factor in fewer planes attacking. I didn't even catch a glimpse of he Sara and Lex group.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by ny59giants »

The Allies get another 3 CVEs in Dec 42 and very little until the Essex shows up in May 43. Once that happens, the flood gates are open as he will get 2 to 3 CV/CVL/CVE a month for some time. So, another 6 months before the tide changes for good.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

The Allies get another 3 CVEs in Dec 42 and very little until the Essex shows up in May 43. Once that happens, the flood gates are open as he will get 2 to 3 CV/CVL/CVE a month for some time. So, another 6 months before the tide changes for good.

Just considering all of this makes me think as long as there are no more catastrophes before this time next year, we would be running to about even until maybe September or October, when he will pull away quickly in CV strength. If I can keep pushing back hard until then, it will be a long road to Tokyo at least.

Also, the George will be around, and I'll have those three extra groups flying it. Whether I'll have bases to fly from with the 4Es around will remain to be seen.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - CV BATTLE!

Post by PaxMondo »

He doesn't get that many 4E's until later in '43 also.  So, you have time here to get all of your defenses in place. 
 
If you're still thinking offense at this time ... well read Greyjoy/rader's AAR amoung many others.  IJ players pursuing offense in '43 have a long history of demise.  Every offensive naval action is a gamble with the odds against you.  A defensive action with proper intel is your opportunity to edge the odds in your favor.  Read PzB's AAR to see how effective that is.  And note that he went on defensive after a decisive naval victory in '42 and stayed on defensive.  He had his boundaries set and did not cross them, did not overexpand his defensive perimeter.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

He doesn't get that many 4E's until later in '43 also.  So, you have time here to get all of your defenses in place. 

If you're still thinking offense at this time ... well read Greyjoy/rader's AAR amoung many others.  IJ players pursuing offense in '43 have a long history of demise.  Every offensive naval action is a gamble with the odds against you.  A defensive action with proper intel is your opportunity to edge the odds in your favor.  Read PzB's AAR to see how effective that is.  And note that he went on defensive after a decisive naval victory in '42 and stayed on defensive.  He had his boundaries set and did not cross them, did not overexpand his defensive perimeter.

The Greyjoy success in hitting any late Japanese offensive is etched in my mind for good. This Anatom invasion was from the beginning meant to be my last foray in the area before pulling back, as I mentioned earlier. All efforts now will go toward hiding the CVs and building defenses. Of course I still wonder where the defenses should begin in this particular game.

I need to read more of how to us the KB as a right hook after the LBA jabs as PzB does so effectively.

I'm also pulling back in other areas. The Aleautians will have several 'fortresses,' at Adak and Attu, but I feel overextended there for any concentrated defense. If I hold Adak or Attu into the winter of 43-44 it will be a huge success in my book. That will be the goal, and other bases will be weakened so that critical units can be pulled back to the Kuriles. Cold Bay will remain an outpost to search the area and recon Kodiak, but only while he allows. If 4Es move in this will be shut down quickly.

A few questions.

1. I have two divisions South of the Solomons. Noumea and Koumac are building toward level 4 forts, but I'm feeling it would be better to have them at Milne Bay and at Ndeni. Any invasion of Ndeni will have to take on LBA in a big way, and at distance with 4E bombing lightly supported by escorts or sweeps. That would change though if I just left New Caledonia and the New Hebrides unguarded.

So the question is where do I start the fight? Should I keep the units far South, somewhat forcing him to invade there first, stalling for time while losing these valuable units? Or do I pull them back and give him the New Hebrides and Noumea, thereby bringing 4Es into range of Tulagi and the first ring of defenses?

2. If I do fight in the area South of the Solomons do I use the weakened but still strong KB supported by LBA from level 2 fields Anatom, Koumac, Luganville and Noumea? Mainly as I described, in a second punch kind of way, only if the US CVs are committed, have taken air losses and we have the element of surprise. Or do I leave this to token LBA groups only and a few surface raiding TFs?
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by PaxMondo »

There is always the concern that the allies can just bypass any stronghold.  They effectively did that to Truk and then came back and trashed it.  To avoid this you have to make it such that if they bypass it the cost will be really high.  Historically, this was certainly possible.  In game, I'm not so sure you can do it.
 
Reviewing PzB's AAR regarding Christmas island, and Andy was able to completely demolish it with 4E's attacks even though it had very high forts (lvl 6).  This is in contrast to what befell the Marines who landed at Tarawa and Iwo.  500 lb bombs should not be able to penetrate high forts, say above level 4 or 5, but in game they do.  Oh well.  This means you cannot put high supply on an island and have it withstand attack.  So, static defense is out.  You have to go with a fluid defense, fortunately PzB's AAR demonstrates this nicely. 
 
He keeps a perimeter of 'trip-wire' bases behind which he is prepared to aggressively counter-attack from.  His defense of Waingapoe is a classic.  Granted, Andy had some bad luck, but I think even so PzB would have carried it anyway.  He was able to bring to bear +2000 planes and what 5 div's within a few days of spotting Andy.  Even though he lost control of Waingapoe for a few days, he was able to take it back and eject the allies from the island.  I think it mandatory reading for players.  Having a complete KB certainly helps, but do not ignore the huge LBA component of what he did.  I think with the correct planning and staging of forces, you can get the LBA where it needs to be just as fast as the KB.  This has yet to be proven ... hopefully you will!
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]22 November 1942[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

subs: Found this near OZ. I thought at first this could be an invasion force to take advantage of the quiet in the area, and my momentary inability to react. Then I remembered the damage to Canberra, and I think on of these DDs. I think they're just headed to Sydney to be repaired and either bringing units there or preparing to pick some up.

He's been using good escorts, but you'd think one day I'd get into one of these TFs and hit an AP. Hasn't happened yet, at all!

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Newcastle at 95,170

Japanese Ships
SS I-22, hits 1

Allied Ships
CA Canberra
DD Pope
DD Peary
DD Preston
AP Crescent City
AP Thomas Jefferson
AP President Monroe
AP Henderson
DD Rathburne
DD Kane

SS I-22 is sighted by escort
DD Rathburne fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Kane attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-22 eludes ASW attack from DD Kane
DD Kane cannot establish contact with SS I-22
SS I-22 eludes ASW attack from DD Kane
DD Kane attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-22 eludes DD Kane by diving deep
SS I-22 eludes ASW attack from DD Kane
DD Kane fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kane fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kane fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kane fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

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[/font]

So Pac: Another pounding of Anatom. He's not hitting the troops, yet, which makes me happy. I have no support units here, so wipe the airbase all day as far as I'm concerned. Not worried about forts really either. I'll be wanting to get most of these guys out of here anyway.

One more nice report. Usually these go the other way and come off of the list.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]DD Laffey is reported to have been sunk near Suva on Oct 14, 1942[/font]

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Anatom , at 120,159

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 56
B-24D Liberator x 35
P-38G Lightning x 22


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 28
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 116

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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[/font]

JPC: More reorganizatoins. Trying to actually organize Chinese divisions with the appropriate HQ. Something I've never done. Not sure it makes a difference, but it's kind of tidy. Okay, I do have a bit of OCD about certain things when I have the time. There should be a good 5k AV sitting in or near Kweiyang to stall any breakouts near there. Another 3-4k AV will head to Sian and the NW areas to sell something there. About 2k AV is in the mountains toward Burma. I've strengthened the garrisons all over the Center just to get engineers in and help build forts to 6. I'll do this all over China. If he ever does break out, there will be a lot in his way.

I'm also building several bases in the foothills of IndoChina. Lao Cai will be the main base as it's on a rail line. I can use this as troops push through Burma or for longer range bombers as the war progresses. Or just as a staging base to keep planes out of harm's way until I want to use them.

Burma: Supply is flooding in and bases are all getting into the forts level 4 area. I'd like ALL of them at 6. I need to start thinking about where to start a defensive line. Not sure if I should put it in the woods right on the the India border, or stick to the cities and plains and make the solid line behind in the Eastern jungles of Burma.

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DD Laffey.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]23 November 1942[/font]
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subs: Just the Tunny dudding on a TF near the Chinese coast. There seem to be 1-2 of these a day now. I'm most likely going to pay soon when the torps work better.

So Pac: A smaller attack on Anatom today.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Anatom , at 120,159

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 40
B-24D Liberator x 22
P-38G Lightning x 24


No Allied losses



Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 53

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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[/font]

Burma: Nothing today.

All IJNAF fighter groups have now been removed from Burma into the Andamans. Farther down the line from 4E bombing.

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The last A6M3 are still be ing used in the Andamans. There are 42 of them left, almost enough to fill out the group.I'll phase these out once the KB is updated to A6M3a.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]24 November 1942[/font]
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subs: Lots of contacts with ASW TFs in the area around Suva. At least I'm making him nervous, which might mean the damaged ships are still in the area.

About 15 subs from other theaters are now converging toward the Solomons to be rebased at Tulagi. They're giving me nothing off of the West coast, in the North and around the islands of the Pacific. At least in this area there are ships to hit. I'll flood certain zones, especially approaches to Sydney.

I'm also sending in a midget sub. Just for kicks. I'll try to get to within 1 hex of Suva and release it to travel into the port.

If anyone has tips for better positioning sub patrols or just in how to get more contacts I'd appreciate any advice. I seem to have done well early and have now hit a dry spell. I'll try to back that up with numbers from Tracker within a few days. I usually don't position subs by using a stationary patrol, but I'm wondering if creating lines of static patrols might seal off an area better than multiple moving patrol zones.
[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Kandavu Island at 129,167

Japanese Ships
SS RO-60

Allied Ships
PT TM-12
PT TM-14
PT TM-10

SS RO-60 cannot acquire firing solution on enemy PT
RO-60 diving deep ....
Sub escapes detection

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ASW attack near Suva at 132,161

Japanese Ships
SS I-16

Allied Ships
DD Farenholt
DD Arrow
DD Woodworth



SS I-16 is sighted by escort
I-16 diving deep ....
DD Arrow fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Woodworth fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Woodworth attacking submerged sub ....
DD Woodworth fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Woodworth fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Woodworth fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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ASW attack near Kandavu Island at 129,167

Japanese Ships
SS RO-60

Allied Ships
PT TM-14
PT TM-10



SS RO-60 is sighted by escort
RO-60 diving deep ....
Sub escapes detection


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ASW attack near Gau Island at 133,162

Japanese Ships
SS I-16

Allied Ships
DD Farenholt
DD Arrow
DD Woodworth



SS I-16 is sighted by escort
I-16 diving deep ....
DD Arrow fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Woodworth fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Woodworth attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-16 eludes DD Woodworth by diving deep
DD Woodworth fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Woodworth attacking submerged sub ....
DD Woodworth cannot reach attack position over SS I-16
DD Woodworth cannot reach attack position over SS I-16
DD Woodworth fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Woodworth fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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ASW attack near Lord Howe Island at 105,170

Japanese Ships
SS I-7, hits 1

Allied Ships
DMS Long
xAP Kedah


SS I-7 launches 2 torpedoes at DMS Long
DMS Long fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Long attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-7 eludes ASW attack from DMS Long
DMS Long loses contact with SS I-7
DMS Long fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Long fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Long fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

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[/font]

So Pac: Recon does show multiple large TFs in the port, not disbanded, that appear to be 10 ship CV TFs. No CVs reported but the usual substitutes are shown. TK, BB, CA, AV. I'd say all is still here and some wounded are in port disbanded. There are 85 ships listed in Suva now.

HI: A new Air HQ arrives in Tokyo.I'm thinking this should go to the area around Kendari/Macassar, as it can support a 4 hex range.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]6th Air Division arrives at Tokyo
25th JAAF AF Bn arrives at Tokyo
11th JAAF AF Bn arrives at Tokyo
[/font]

Burma: Nothing.

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

There is always the concern that the allies can just bypass any stronghold.  They effectively did that to Truk and then came back and trashed it.  To avoid this you have to make it such that if they bypass it the cost will be really high.  Historically, this was certainly possible.  In game, I'm not so sure you can do it.

Reviewing PzB's AAR regarding Christmas island, and Andy was able to completely demolish it with 4E's attacks even though it had very high forts (lvl 6).  This is in contrast to what befell the Marines who landed at Tarawa and Iwo.  500 lb bombs should not be able to penetrate high forts, say above level 4 or 5, but in game they do.  Oh well.  This means you cannot put high supply on an island and have it withstand attack.  So, static defense is out.  You have to go with a fluid defense, fortunately PzB's AAR demonstrates this nicely. 

He keeps a perimeter of 'trip-wire' bases behind which he is prepared to aggressively counter-attack from.  His defense of Waingapoe is a classic.  Granted, Andy had some bad luck, but I think even so PzB would have carried it anyway.  He was able to bring to bear +2000 planes and what 5 div's within a few days of spotting Andy.  Even though he lost control of Waingapoe for a few days, he was able to take it back and eject the allies from the island.  I think it mandatory reading for players.  Having a complete KB certainly helps, but do not ignore the huge LBA component of what he did.  I think with the correct planning and staging of forces, you can get the LBA where it needs to be just as fast as the KB.  This has yet to be proven ... hopefully you will!

This is my fear. If I leave the there, he just heads to Luganville and bypasses the strongpoints.

The only way this PzB style of defense can work, it seems to me, is to have strong depth in the area in question. That's not possible in the lower reaches of the New Hebrides and new Caledonia. I have to prepare to let him come to me. (I did read that AAR during the attack on Wangipoe, but I should review it for sure).

So the decision I'm leaning toward is removing the divisions from Anatom and Noumea/Koumac. Leaving SNLFs there so it's not a complete cake walk with the level 4 forts. The issue is how to remove those units. I haven't yet tried fast transport pick-ups but that seems like the best option now. It'll take quite a few trips. I could at least start this, but he'll catch on quickly I think and his CVs are in very close proximity to Anatom especially. Some combination of air transport and fast transport might be necessary. In about a month when the CVs are repaired I could risk covering an amphib TF, but I'm leaning against this further risk of engagement when we're so close to even in strength. I'd rather wait for the Ryuho and Taiyo before trying that out.

Since the runway is trashed, I'll convert the Tinas to Mavis-L and station them at Luganville to start bringing the Anatom division there. I'll also get a small quick fast transport TF to Koumac and try to bring some of the division that's in Noumea out.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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