A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

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crsutton
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: msudrala8

I thought I read somewhere on the forum it was not a good idea to stack CV's in a single TF, better to spread them out say 1 CV to a task force.
This good advice as I'm gearing up for some massive attacks and need all the advantage I can get. Playing Allies BTW.


There are a variety of opinions about this. I basically keep my CVs in one or two TFs because of the benefits of massed AA (not like it should be but better than nothing) and more important to prevent small CV TFs from reacting towards the enemy and getting creamed. The penalty for using large carriers groups is not that harsh. But others view this differently.
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Chickenboy
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: jetjockey

It doesn't appear that stacking 5 (or 7) allied CVs affects coordination.

This is counter to my understanding of how coordination affects CVTFs. I strongly encourage you to abide by the 'overstacking' formulae found in the manual. 2 CVs/TF or 2 CVs & 1 CVL / TF (Japanese keep under 200 planes) is pretty sensible, IMO. You can keep them all in the same hex to maximize their supportive CAP.
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Dan Nichols
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by Dan Nichols »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: jetjockey

It doesn't appear that stacking 5 (or 7) allied CVs affects coordination.

This is counter to my understanding of how coordination affects CVTFs. I strongly encourage you to abide by the 'overstacking' formulae found in the manual. 2 CVs/TF or 2 CVs & 1 CVL / TF (Japanese keep under 200 planes) is pretty sensible, IMO. You can keep them all in the same hex to maximize their supportive CAP.

Why? The manual states that if you fail the check your chance of being uncoordinated is doubled. What is the chance before doubling? What effects it? KB seems to be able to attack with no problem with 6 CVs and 400+ aircraft, which means that KB should be failing the check every time.
I think that the two obligations you have are to be good at what you do and then to pass on your knowledge to a younger person
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jetjockey
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by jetjockey »

An update.

In my original post I complained that my opponents allied carriers seemed invulnerable. It was explained that my strike package of 58 Zeros and 49 Nells was not large enough and that it was too much to expect the remaining 23 Nells to actually obtain hits. Fine. But turn around should be fair game. This is the second such raid in two days; the first severely damaged the Akagi and nearly crippled the CVL Zuiho. How can 9, unescorted Devastators survive 38 Zeros, much less hit three carriers?

Comments please:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Semarang at 52,101

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 38



Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 9


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 2
CVL Shoho



Aircraft Attacking:
6 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 1000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 32810.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters to 1000.
Raid is overhead
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Icedawg
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by Icedawg »

ORIGINAL: jetjockey

Southern China is worse...

Image

I've never played PBEM, but against the AI, I fair far worse than you appear to be doing in these screenshots. You've captured several bases and haven't lost any of your originally-held bases to the Chinese.

When I play against the AI, in the South, all I can hold is Canton and Hong Kong. All of the other bases along the coast (Amoy, Foochow, etc) end up being captured by the Chinese within 3 or 4 weeks. In the North and Central areas, it's pretty much a standstill.

Maybe PBEM is different. I know the AI gets huge cheats to allow it to compete, so maybe that's the difference. Or maybe I'm just a horrible player. [:(]
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Dan Nichols
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by Dan Nichols »

He sent his TBDs in at 1000 feet. Your fighters were mostly very high up and probably did not get much of a chance to shoot at them.
I think that the two obligations you have are to be good at what you do and then to pass on your knowledge to a younger person
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by Commander Stormwolf »


remember in war, as in the universe

all things happen, some of the time
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jetjockey
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by jetjockey »

1/4 of my fighters were at 8K and half were at 13K. Even a Cessna would have plenty of time to descend to 1K in the 11 minutes available, much less a fighter with 130 kt overtake.
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jetjockey
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by jetjockey »

My fighters made two or three passes and called it a day.
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crsutton
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by crsutton »

Yep, sometimes when you are too high, they can sneak in. I had it happen with about a dozen kates slipping under 100 wildcats and putting three bombs into my carriers. It is rare but anything can happen. Don't let a few odd events cloud your thinking and don't be surprised if you get a surprise here and there. That is what keeps the game from getting boring in the long run. This sort of stuff happens in war.
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Dan Nichols
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by Dan Nichols »

Also to note, Weather in hex - Heavy Rain. Maybe your fighters had problems finding his TBDs?
I think that the two obligations you have are to be good at what you do and then to pass on your knowledge to a younger person
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PaxMondo
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: jetjockey

An update.

In my original post I complained that my opponents allied carriers seemed invulnerable. It was explained that my strike package of 58 Zeros and 49 Nells was not large enough and that it was too much to expect the remaining 23 Nells to actually obtain hits. Fine. But turn around should be fair game. This is the second such raid in two days; the first severely damaged the Akagi and nearly crippled the CVL Zuiho. How can 9, unescorted Devastators survive 38 Zeros, much less hit three carriers?

Comments please:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Semarang at 52,101

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 38



Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 9


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 2
CVL Shoho



Aircraft Attacking:
6 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 1000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 32810.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters to 1000.
Raid is overhead
you only have 11 Zeros in the air, not 38. One group was way high. And you only had 11 minutes to react. So, really you had 3 zeros against 9 DB's, who got 3 before the attack, the rest of the 6 were able to press their attack before any more Zeros could interfere. Pretty realistic results.
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PaxMondo
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yep, sometimes when you are too high, they can sneak in. I had it happen with about a dozen kates slipping under 100 wildcats and putting three bombs into my carriers. It is rare but anything can happen. Don't let a few odd events cloud your thinking and don't be surprised if you get a surprise here and there. That is what keeps the game from getting boring in the long run. This sort of stuff happens in war.
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by Cavalry Corp »

Regards the NELL strike I have noticed that bombers have a much at least double chance to miss if they are attacked by CAP regardless of if they are damaged or not and if damaged makes it worse. So IJ forces are more likely to miss if opposed full stop, because they are more likely to get damaged as well as suffering the engagement penalty.
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Charbroiled
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RE: A little help, please! (no rusty plz)

Post by Charbroiled »

ORIGINAL: jetjockey

Ground combat at 82,34 (near Lanchow)

Japanese Shock attack......

Followed by...

Ground combat at 82,34 (near Lanchow)

Allied Shock attack.....

If these are normal attacks, you are not getting your tail kick in China, you are committing suicide. China is not like Poland that can be blitzkrieged in a weeks time. China is a slow methodical advance. The Japanese soldiers are much better than the Chinese, you just need to wear the Chinese down over time.

First off, NEVER shock attack unless you know that the opponent is "cracking". If you have to cross a river where a shock attack will be triggered, cross with your whole assault force at once. DO NOT do a "piece-meal" crossing. If you can, maneuver your soldiers around to enter the base from a non-river hex. If you have enough units, try to surround the base and cut off his supply route, but ALWAYS protect your flanks. Remember, the Chinese have a lot more units than you and a smart opponent will be trying to maneuver around YOUR units to cut off your supplies. PROTECT YOUR FLANKS.

When you initially get into the same hex as your opponent, and you don't know what his strength is, do a bombardment attack. This will give you a rough idea what his AV is. Once the you know his strength, you can decide whether to attack him or bring in more troops. In China, the Japanese can often win even though the Chinese may have more troops. You will need to consider their troops strength and what type of terrain you are fighting in before you attack.

Once you decide to attack, do a deliberate attack and remember what your AV is going into the attack. Also, if you suspect a tough fight, assign the target base as the objective so you will get prep credit, if you haven't already. It is never too late to assign an objective. If the battle lasts many days or months, you might be at 100% prepped before the battle is over even though you only assigned the objective once the battle began.

During the combat replay, find your opponents strongest units and keep an eye on them. If they drop only about 20 points during the attack, you are not making much headway and probably need more soldiers. If they drop 30 or more points, they are starting to "crack".

After the attack, look at your own units. If the fatigue and/or disruption is getting to be up into the 20's or 30's, rest the units. This may take days, or it may take weeks. Rest them until ALL Inf units drop below 20... preferably 10. You can attack with fatigue/disruption above 20, but expect to take higher losses. Also, while resting, watch your total AV value in the hex. It should slowly increase over the resting period.

During the resting period, pay attention to whether your opponent brings in reinforcements or not.

Once you have rested and the AV value is comparable to your initial attack AV value, you are ready to attack again. If you think your opponent has brought in reinforcements and are unsure of his strength, bombard again to see what you are up against. If you are comfortable attacking, then do another deliberate attack. Again, watching his stronger units to see if they drop another 30+ points.

As long as his larger units are dropping in AV value, keep doing deliberate attacks while resting in between attacks until the base switches to your possession, or until the game stops switching your units to "defend" after every attack. When that happens, you are on the verge of being able to switch to shock attacks, but you might want to do a couple more deliberate attacks first. Whatever you do, do not shock attack with fatigue or disruption over 20 unless you want to take high losses.

Anyway, this is my method for ground attack and it seems to serve me well.....good luck.
"When I said I would run, I meant 'away' ". - Orange
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