Corsair and CV Space Available Behavior

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The Navy did not certify the F4U-1 for carrier use. There was extensive testing of them on carriers, especially by VF-17. The Hellcat was coming off the production lines in large numbers (Grumman's production rate was close to 2X Vought's for the fighters). And the Hellcat had a lot of advantages for use on a carrier. It had better low speed characteristics, was much gentler in a stall and gave more warning, it was more reliable, and it had 95% of the performance of the Corsair. With the decline in Japanese pilot quality, the advantages of the Hellcat made it the top Navy fighter.

By the time VF-17 had worked out the problems with the Corsair and figured out how to operate them from a carrier, the CV supply chain was full of spares for Hellcats and the Navy deemed that logistics was more important. The FAA, which was in dire straights for good fighters did adapt the Corsair I (F4U-1) for carrier use and used them.

Even through the Korean War when later versions of F4Us operated from carriers, landing accidents and landing failures with the Corsair were much higher than they were with the F6F. The only reason the F4Us came aboard the carriers in the last year of the war was the dire need for more fighters to deal with the kamikazes.

BTW, in game, the only USN/USMC Corsair versions that are not carrier capable are the F4U-1 and the F2G. The F4U-1a and 1d are carrier capable as is the -4 and the -2. You can see this when looking at the possible aircraft upgrades from the unit screen. Looking at the list of possible upgrades, click on the yellow plane type and you will get characteristics for that plane. If a plane is carrier capable, it will say so in the upper left corner.

In the plane database (from the button on the top menu bar), if you are looking at all the stats for a given aircraft it will say Carrier Capable below the name of the plane in the upper left.

On the air unit screen, whether that unit is carrier capable, carrier trained, or nothing will appear on the 4th line in the upper left.

Bill

I look at the picture of a Corsair below .. "Carrier Trained" but no information that it cannot actually operate from a CV ... [;)]

look into the "aircraft data" on bottom left corner, you post the squadron info screen.

[michaelm75au]

Carrier capable and carrier trained are 2 distinct things; one is about the aircraft and the other about the group.

You can have any possible combination of these, and all are valid.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The Navy did not certify the F4U-1 for carrier use. There was extensive testing of them on carriers, especially by VF-17. The Hellcat was coming off the production lines in large numbers (Grumman's production rate was close to 2X Vought's for the fighters). And the Hellcat had a lot of advantages for use on a carrier. It had better low speed characteristics, was much gentler in a stall and gave more warning, it was more reliable, and it had 95% of the performance of the Corsair. With the decline in Japanese pilot quality, the advantages of the Hellcat made it the top Navy fighter.

By the time VF-17 had worked out the problems with the Corsair and figured out how to operate them from a carrier, the CV supply chain was full of spares for Hellcats and the Navy deemed that logistics was more important. The FAA, which was in dire straights for good fighters did adapt the Corsair I (F4U-1) for carrier use and used them.

Even through the Korean War when later versions of F4Us operated from carriers, landing accidents and landing failures with the Corsair were much higher than they were with the F6F. The only reason the F4Us came aboard the carriers in the last year of the war was the dire need for more fighters to deal with the kamikazes.

BTW, in game, the only USN/USMC Corsair versions that are not carrier capable are the F4U-1 and the F2G. The F4U-1a and 1d are carrier capable as is the -4 and the -2. You can see this when looking at the possible aircraft upgrades from the unit screen. Looking at the list of possible upgrades, click on the yellow plane type and you will get characteristics for that plane. If a plane is carrier capable, it will say so in the upper left corner.

In the plane database (from the button on the top menu bar), if you are looking at all the stats for a given aircraft it will say Carrier Capable below the name of the plane in the upper left.

On the air unit screen, whether that unit is carrier capable, carrier trained, or nothing will appear on the 4th line in the upper left.

Bill

I look at the picture of a Corsair below .. "Carrier Trained" but no information that it cannot actually operate from a CV ... [;)]

Carrier capable is an aircraft attribute. It shows in the aircraft data if you click on "AIRCRAFT DATA" on the group screen.
This is not a display issue - has been like this since stock, IIRC.

[michaelm75au]

The message "Carrier Trained" and "Carrier Capable" seem to be mutually exclusive on the group screen.
If the "Trained" one shows, the other is suppressed. As the initial carrier groups start out as 'trained', this seems to be constant message. The "capable" would only show if the group was NOT 'trained'.

I think that both are suppose to show but this has been the way it always has been, though.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The message "Carrier Trained" and "Carrier Capable" seem to be mutually exclusive on the group screen.
If the "Trained" one shows, the other is suppressed. As the initial carrier groups start out as 'trained', this seems to be constant message. The "capable" would only show if the group was NOT 'trained'.

I think that both are suppose to show but this has been the way it always has been, though.

Just to say it was a confuising and frustrating experience .. it sounds like by this discourse that it was meant to be for those without an extensive experince with WitP or interacting on this forum. I might suggest a simplier method to communicate to the user .. in the process of teh game this user simply needs to identify planes that can operate on a CV. This is not immedately clear. N=1 ...

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

So to me this isn't a bug, it a user choice.  You transferred a carrier trained squadron into a non-carrier capable aircraft.  Perfectly possible, and might even desirable under certain circumstances.

There's no indication that the F4U-1 is NOT carrier capable! It should say that some place. So I'd say an oversight, but dam close to a bug if the game allows you to transfer this squadron onto a CV.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

So to me this isn't a bug, it a user choice.  You transferred a carrier trained squadron into a non-carrier capable aircraft.  Perfectly possible, and might even desirable under certain circumstances.

There's no indication that the F4U-1 is NOT carrier capable! It should say that some place. So I'd say an oversight, but dam close to a bug if the game allows you to transfer this squadron onto a CV.

You can load the aircraft but it is X4 the space and will not operate ..

The problem for me is knowing the F4U-1 and F4U-1A These boys will get back on a CV in October of 43 ..

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

So to me this isn't a bug, it a user choice.  You transferred a carrier trained squadron into a non-carrier capable aircraft.  Perfectly possible, and might even desirable under certain circumstances.

There's no indication that the F4U-1 is NOT carrier capable! It should say that some place. So I'd say an oversight, but dam close to a bug if the game allows you to transfer this squadron onto a CV.

You can load the aircraft but it is X4 the space and will not operate ..

The problem for me is knowing the F4U-1 and F4U-1A These boys will get back on a CV in October of 43 ..

Well thanks for posting this. A good lessons learned. The F4U-1 will not operate off a CV, but it did on Brit CV's but most likely won't "in game". There needs to be a warning about was is and what is not CV capable. What other aircraft has this problem?

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff




There's no indication that the F4U-1 is NOT carrier capable! It should say that some place. So I'd say an oversight, but dam close to a bug if the game allows you to transfer this squadron onto a CV.

You can load the aircraft but it is X4 the space and will not operate ..

The problem for me is knowing the F4U-1 and F4U-1A These boys will get back on a CV in October of 43 ..

Well thanks for posting this. A good lessons learned. The F4U-1 will not operate off a CV, but it did on Brit CV's but most likely won't "in game". There needs to be a warning about was is and what is not CV capable. What other aircraft has this problem?

It may very well be the user interfacec design that if you do not know WitP AE's version of history .. the planning might get disrupted .. [:'(]

The lesson for me is to make sure to check WitP Tracker air compasion before comitting to my plan .. [8D] I sense a change in the UI kile having a CV trained group [that follows A/C type .. ] now "promoted" to a non-CV capable A/C will not happen .. however, as a suggestion just simply turning the CV Trained red would be nice .. [;)] at least I would be prompted to check ..