The Great Patriotic AAR III (No glvaca please)

[Tarhunnas]

The center after Soviet moves. I broke the Kiev pocket, but that relief will be very temporary. It is clear I am defending too far forward. I did defend more to the rear in this game than against Michael T, but it was still a rather forward strategy. I am reluctantly being convinced that against a good Axis opponent, more drastic withdrawals is the only viable course of action. I would really have wanted a forward strategy to work better.

[Tarhunnas]

The South after Soviet moves.

On the evacuation side, things are fine. Everything important in Leningrad is out, Poltava and Dneproptrovsk are empty, the T34 factory in Karkov went east this turn, as well as a part of the ARM there.

[Klydon]

Interesting spearhead towards Leningrad at the moment. I would have thought as dispersed as he was, he would have issues trying to advance in strength there. Now it appears he is in "unstoppable force" mode with a drive on Leningrad.

[Tarhunnas]

I though I would be able to hold the place, but it appears not. Anyway, I'll make him pay for it and keep that panzer group occupied for as long as possible.

[Flaviusx]

It is possible to hold on to Leningrad, but only barely, and only if both of the following conditions apply:

1. AGN isn't reinforced, and;

2. The Soviet massively reinforces the north immediately with as many reserve armies as possible in the first couple of turns and more besides. This means no forward defense in the center, btw, or even much of a stand on the Smolensk corridor. The center is built up with arriving cadres on the Rzhev-Vyazma-Bryansk line, which will be out of supply range for the Axis until they push rails to and past Smolensk.

If the Soviet fulfills condition 2 but the Axis reinforces AGN, then you probably still lose Leningrad, but can hope to protract the campaign up there until mud hits, which is good enough.

The fight for Moscow begins at Pskov. Not Smolensk.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

The center after Soviet moves. I broke the Kiev pocket, but that relief will be very temporary. It is clear I am defending too far forward. I did defend more to the rear in this game than against Michael T, but it was still a rather forward strategy. I am reluctantly being convinced that against a good Axis opponent, more drastic withdrawals is the only viable course of action. I would really have wanted a forward strategy to work better.

As we know the "learning curve" on the German side is much steaper then the Russian side.

It would seem that the "German side" over-all is getting on equal footing(knowledge). Most poeple now know the basic moves required of the GHC for a chance at victory in 41-42.

The are now many AAR's showing the basic formula for the GHC.

As some of us knew over a year ago the only counter to the GHC moves for SHC was running. Even with muling "nerfed", running still can be over come as MT knows.

tm.asp?m=2919963

Even without house rules (para nerf finally WTH took so long?) its still takes a very skilled SHC player to over come a very skilled GHC player.

Only a handfull of guys have the magic formula for winning, GHC or SHC.

All things being equal the SHC player "should" win under the base rules, but most games things are not equal.

Its still the best Eastern Front game to date, but until citys are worth VP's per turn the game is just to cookie cutter.

I have basicly stopped playing because I have tried it all.

1. Max HQ build ups.
2. no HQ build ups.
3. Arm crunch
4. Manpower crunch
5. muling
6. no muling.

ect ect.

Until there is a reason for the SHC to fight before 43 the game is not interesting all things being equal.

If there was a reason for the SHC to fight forward, then the SHC would need a boost for sure to over come GHC.

Nerfing the GHC side is not the answer to the problem, it has only made the game very very cookie cutter and given the SHC zero options. In other words the game has been dumbed down for the SHC side.

More options not less keeps games lively for a very long time.

Coping and pasting wite to witw is not a good thing.

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 10. Map before Soviet moves.

The Fascist invaders press on to the gates of Leningrad. Happily everything important has been evacuated.

In the center, the enemy takes another bite out of our front, and in the south, they are mainly moving forward.

[randallw]

They are not necessarily copying every feature of WitE directly into WitW.

[notenome]

ORIGINAL: Pelton


As we know the "learning curve" on the German side is much steaper then the Russian side.

It would seem that the "German side" over-all is getting on equal footing(knowledge). Most poeple now know the basic moves required of the GHC for a chance at victory in 41-42.

*sigh*

Anyways, the fate of Leningrad rest with that far right hex (Pavlovo?). Put your best stuff there and slug it out. The major urban can basically defend itself, but if Pavlovo falls its game over for Leningrad. He's almost certaintly gonna bring the best infantry he can muster loaded with pioneers and arty, so keep the boys on refit and try to recycle troops. My next GC I'm putting a digger on that hex on Turn 1.

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 11. This is a map after Soviet moves. Nothing dramatic happening. Lenigrad is cut off, but I am surprised he didn't blitz the place. It wasn't very strong, and I think he would have been able to redeploy his panzers sonner that way. But if they go an a swamp journey, I will not complain. Leningrad is lost anyway.

[Tarhunnas]

Losses turn 11.

[Tarhunnas]

OOB Turn 11.

[Klydon]

Not good for the Russians, but the clock is ticking.

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 13. Map before Soviet moves. Tula and Kharkov lost, but both were empty of ARM. There were some veichle left in Kharkov, but those are low priority.

[Tarhunnas]

The Moscow front after Soviet moves.

[Tarhunnas]

And the situation around Leningrad after Soviet moves. Note the Panzers railing out near Pskov. Only infantry left now, but I will not be able to hold the city.

I did a niusance penetration with a cavalry division southeast of Leningrad to force him to cover his flanks better. I have also railed some cavalry to the area northeast of Velikie Luki to take advantage of the gaps in his line and try to mess up AGC supply next turn.

[Tarhunnas]

Losses turn 13.

[Tarhunnas]

OOB turn 13.

[governato]

Have you tried bombing his rail repair units? I noticed that it is relatively easy to 'kill' 150 men per strike, especially if the FBDs get too close to the front and you can use the Il-2s to strafe them. (T surely know that already, but FBDs are easy to spot..just follow a rail line West and check the pop-up info hex until you find the railhead, then run a recon mission or two just East of there). It's not much, but it will increase the unit fatigue over time and having them fail to repair even just one or two hexes over a few turns will make a difference. A nervous German might decide to protect them with a Security unit. Also, given the low quality of the Red Air Force, this is a simple way to put them bombers to work...

[timmyab]

Presumably the next stage is to start dropping airborne brigades on them.[:D]