TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME!

[Yaab]

The game is daunting and lack of tutorial is a killer, but grognards must soldier on. 

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It ISN'T the best opponent.

A native English speaker sees more than one meaning for "best" in this usage.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It ISN'T the best opponent.

Well I went back and amended my review to say:

"Also note, depending on your own level of competency at the game, the AI may not be the best opponent."

How does that sound?

You are of course free to post your own customer review to Amazon. I have read yours, and on balance it is fine.

However, in responding to Terminus's curt statement concerning "best" I further reflected that your statement above does a diservice to the majority of AE players, as IDed by Matrix.

I feel that my competancy with the game is in the top 25%. Certainly I've played more GCs through to war's end than almost any PBEM player. Yet, for me, the AI is truely the "best" opponent since a human opponent would require me to alter the framework of my life, and that is not a cost I'm willing to bear. Your review implies that AEers play the AI because they are not sufficiently competant. Some of us play the AI because the alternative would be far too costly in lifestyle terms, not because we can't, or not because we'd be poor PBEM players.

Just my thoughts.

[KenchiSulla]

And it isn't to costly playing the AI to wars end in various campaigns???

You confuse the crap out of me [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

And it isn't to costly playing the AI to wars end in various campaigns???

You confuse the crap out of me [:D]

In AI play I can move from 1-, to 2-, to 3-day turns at will, and back again. I can play when I want to, which is not every day. In other cases, when I feel like it, I can play two weeks worth of turns at a sitting with the AI responding instantly to my inputed turns. No mail box camping. The AI doesn't want e-mails to discuss the last move or complain about its bad play. It doesn't whine about "gamey" moves or even know there's such a thing as HRs which require a CPA degree to track.

And it never, ever quits in a huff when I do something brilliant.

Best? Yep.

[KenchiSulla]

Well I can see the advantage in that..

Having said that, so far I have been very lucky with my PBEM opponents... It is not all bad you know.

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It ISN'T the best opponent.

A native English speaker sees more than one meaning for "best" in this usage.

Oooh, you denigrate my English skills! Oooh, arrow to the heart! Forsooth and i'faith...[8|]

[DivePac88]

Give the game a chance Mate, as i think you just got some bad rolls. I guarantee that; if you put a few months into this game, it will have your imagination, and spare time. [;)]

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It ISN'T the best opponent.

Well I went back and amended my review to say:

"Also note, depending on your own level of competency at the game, the AI may not be the best opponent."

How does that sound?

You are of course free to post your own customer review to Amazon. I have read yours, and on balance it is fine.

However, in responding to Terminus's curt statement concerning "best" I further reflected that your statement above does a diservice to the majority of AE players, as IDed by Matrix.

I feel that my competancy with the game is in the top 25%. Certainly I've played more GCs through to war's end than almost any PBEM player. Yet, for me, the AI is truely the "best" opponent since a human opponent would require me to alter the framework of my life, and that is not a cost I'm willing to bear. Your review implies that AEers play the AI because they are not sufficiently competant. Some of us play the AI because the alternative would be far too costly in lifestyle terms, not because we can't, or not because we'd be poor PBEM players.

Just my thoughts.

Well I want to be accurate in my review.

As far a playing the AI because of lifestyle constraints or whatever against playing human opponents don't you think it depends on one's competency of the game to some degree as to whether one will find the AI sufficient or not? It sounds to me like you would rather play a human opponent rather than AI if it were more convenient than it is. So for instance if someone is a complete novice then AI would be great probably. If you're like Castor Troy or someone really good at AE or something, then the AI might probably bore you to death.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It ISN'T the best opponent.

A native English speaker sees more than one meaning for "best" in this usage.

Oooh, you denigrate my English skills! Oooh, arrow to the heart! Forsooth and i'faith...[8|]

I think it's more illustrative of you than me that you took my comment as denigraitng.

"Best" is a superlative in pure form, but it has shades of meaning in context. "I had the BEST hamburger last night!" does not mean the hamburger is claimed to be the most superior ever in all of time and space. It means it was very good in the experience of the speaker. Or, maybe, it means the speaker is a teenage girl to whom all experiecnes new to her are the best there ever was because, well, the universe DOES revolve around her.

Or other things.

You're welcome.

[John 3rd]

Nasty Bullwinkle!

The game is all about LEARNING CURVE and discovering what works and what does not. Read AARs, Post questions, and pick member's brains.

[Treetop64]

Auchinleck, it will literally take you months, or even years, to get into the swing of things with this game. That's no exaggeration. Absolutely no offense intended, but 99% of the time if something horribly and tragically cataclysmic happens to forces under your command, it is because you did something stupid, quite frankly, especially when you're first starting out. We've all been there, each and every single one of us. Multiple times. I've been playing different versions of this game for the better part of six years now, and I still do stupid things from time to time that earns me some pain and embarrassment. This game is so deeply detailed and complex that, to this very day, I'm still learning things about how to best utilize the units under my command, and to best play the game itself. It's all part of the show.

I can tell you that the vast majority will implore you to not give up. The plea is justified, and not because we paid $80 for it (and absolutely worth every penny if you ask any of us). WitP is by far the most engrossing and in-depth strategy game money can buy. You're not going to know the nuances in just one or two turns; that's just a grossly unrealistic expectation. This game will not satisfy any needs of immediate gratification. That sort of philosophy belongs to the designs of console games (which I also enjoy).

Trust me on this: We've all been where you are now. Just stick with it, and you'll be surprised how much enjoyment you'll get from this game and IMO, more importantly, how much real stuff you actually learn in the process.

[oldman45]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It ISN'T the best opponent.

A native English speaker sees more than one meaning for "best" in this usage.

Oooh, you denigrate my English skills! Oooh, arrow to the heart! Forsooth and i'faith...[8|]

Funniest thing I read all day, Thanks!

[GaryChildress]

What Treetop64 said! Better yet, Auchinleck, try getting into modding the game. You'll learn a lot of the ins and outs that way too. You'll become obsessed with orders of battle and weapon stats and you'll eventually end up with $900 worth of World War 2 military books in your house. You'll be rattling off the troop composition of 2nd Marine Division in your sleep. When you wake up you'll be cursing the fact that AE left out the three native outriggers tied up to the fishing pier in Manila on December 7th 1941. [:D]

Seriously though modding the game is a good way to understand a lot of aspects as well. Plus it's fun!

[John 3rd]

JUST $900.00??!! Just my copies of Jentshura, Peattie, Francillon, Whitley,etc...the list goes on and on...seem to amount to that amount...

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

JUST $900.00??!! Just my copies of Jentshura, Peattie, Francillon, Whitley,etc...the list goes on and on...seem to amount to that amount...

OK. Maybe I undershot a bit. [:D]

[Treetop64]

Having spent just $900, Gary apparently buys his books only from the bargain bins at used book stores, or from garage sales.

Speaking of the former, some of the best books in my collection were purchased from used book stores. Surprising how much golden material can be dug up from those establishments!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

As far a playing the AI because of lifestyle constraints or whatever against playing human opponents don't you think it depends on one's competency of the game to some degree as to whether one will find the AI sufficient or not? It sounds to me like you would rather play a human opponent rather than AI if it were more convenient than it is. So for instance if someone is a complete novice then AI would be great probably. If you're like Castor Troy or someone really good at AE or something, then the AI might probably bore you to death.

To be clear, if I had a RL friend in town where I could go over to his house and beat him senseless if necessary, and that person would work with my schedule, I think a PBEM would be fun.

OTOH, good players = PBEM and less competent players = AI does not describe the universe of player combinations. I have seen AARs written by players who would lose badly to the AI.

I've never lost to the AI, but I give it breaks and avoid doing some things. It still gives me a fun game, especially when I use each iteration to try out new routes and strategies. I'm playing my first Babes variant now and it's different. I'll play an Ironman next most likely, but maybe with non-dud torpedoes just to see.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Fisrt and formost this is a game not a simulation so anything is possible esspecially PBEM.
AI scripts are randomised as much as any computer can randomise.
Why isn't attacking Indianapolis realistic? Nagumo was cautious with a little more aggression he could have found the two US carriers plus other stuff. Personnally I would never send my carriers back to PH until I was sure the Japanese had withdrawn.

In the real war the CVs spent as little time as possible at Pearl the first few months of the war. When the Enterprise came back on Dec 8, they broke all records fueling and preparing her for sea again. She was only in port a few hours.

Bill

[GaryChildress]

Actually I don't have a great many WWII books. I've probably spent around $900 total and mostly involving orders of battle of one sort or another. Francillon, Jentshura and Conway's I do have. I think I may have spent around $200 maybe on those three combined. I have the Supplement and General Index to S.E. Morison's set which has a list of every ship that served with the US Navy in WW2. That I inherited from my grandfather. I have a fair collection of Osprey books but I got most of those at Amazon.com used for a few dollars a piece. Most of the Osprey's are the "Men-at-Arms" series which are mainly color plates of uniforms. I use those to create units for Civilization III. I get a lot of my info from the Internet as well. The Niehorster site is a favorite and I even have a few of his books on OOBs. But overall not a big collection.

Total: WitP has probably cost me around $600 in books which I never would have bought otherwise.