Combat Leader - C'mon over...

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Jan 12, 2001 9:00 pm

It ain't just for Close Combat fans

This game will be a bit of a scale down for SP:WaW. Focusing on Company and multi-company scale actions. It WILL have a turn based option - not just Real Time.

If you every wondered what it would be like to see the little "herd" of SP troops doing more interestig things...check it out!

We have plenty of CC'ers over there - c'mon over and make sure the SP'ers POV gets into the mix!

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Fri Jan 12, 2001 9:53 pm

Yes, come on over & visit. I've found that the new folks from CC do not, as rumour has it, ALL wear plaid poyester pants & eat their young

If you want to get up to speed about what CL is, stop in at my page:
http://nwbattalion.tripod.com/

& check out the Q&A section.

------------------
Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://nwbattalion.tripod.com
E-mail nwbattalion@icqmail.com

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Fri Jan 12, 2001 10:12 pm

Paul is quite right on this guys. I've played all the Close combat series more or less ripping off my hairs

Thing what kept me out of loving the game was that thruth was awesome for SP-series lover. Now we could have chance to change that lack of realism. Maybe not in first Combat leader, but atleast get it started. I know many things what has been started and then dropped off because there were no enthusiasts onboard and I know you can name a bunch more top that list.

I have said once in these threads this, but as a reminder: We should really take a good look to the future of wargaming. Now it looks quite bright, but so does stars do before they die. Multiplayer Campaign game doesn't work with pbem, just count how many years it would take to finish WW2 when there is four or more pbem-gamers and all of them sends their turn once a week. If you are more to do it online, we encounter problems again with SP-engine. It just got too old muscles to rule. Bones are strong and , thanx for Matrix; skin looks good and younger than what it really is...

I'm not realtime -strategy fan. I love to sit with hot cup of coffee and think my overall situations before I do something. As Wild Bill said in one thread in CL-forum : Eyes move faster than hands. And he is at the point on that. But for the youngsters who comes and rules here after we have desided only to play 'till we drop, CL could be good chance to leave decent landmark to wargaming.

Get your sight to CL and say that you are there. It brings little bit of Spwaw -forums soul in there. There is already bottle open for it...

mosh

And I'm starting my 36 year as a citizen of earth.

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Fri Jan 12, 2001 11:11 pm

HI , I 'm 29 years old...and I love SP ! sometimes much more than my girlfriend

)) and even if I bought the original Close Combat 2 and 3 (as the same for SP 1 ,2 ,3 )
I have to say I hope 'turns' in a wargame will never disappear !! (and I didn't buy CC4 ) Is for this reason that I keep my old DOS-based PC alive till I die to play the old Steel Panthers I and I assure MatrixGames that right now next to that 486 will be forever a new Win98 PC with SPWAW..
Real time it's interesting ( see for istance Sudden strike ) but nothing can compare to play a 'chess'-wargame using turns !
I know this is just a personal point of view but I am glad when I can share this with other 'Earth's citizens '...

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 12:37 am

UAU ...I happily announce I became a Matrix Veteran..this goes toghether with a new impressive discovery : Combat Leader !
I went there to get a glance and I found a Mister Paul seriously involved with a new great project..I was very excited while I was reading about COMBLEAD's features because I understand that starting from SPWAW it will be something very mature ! And I feel very lucky because I
have seen in SPwaw that Matrix shares the same kind of tastes than me--and what's more they prooved to be a very serious team !
They are So much interested in our
opinions and preferences I will surely ready to buy this product as I promised when I
first encountered MAtrix in SPWAW...
I can't believe in how much happiness They brought to us....thanks too much !

Tankhead · Post by **Tankhead** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:03 am

Thanks Paul and Bonzo!

I will go snoop around there and see if they are all fanatics like SPWaW.

Tankhead

------------------
Rick Cloutier rcclout@telusplanet.net
Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources
http://members.tripod.com/tankhead__1

Greg McCarty · Post by **Greg McCarty** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 3:13 am

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
It ain't just for Close Combat fans

This game will be a bit of a scale down for SP:WaW. Focusing on Company and multi-company scale actions. It WILL have a turn based option - not just Real Time.

If you every wondered what it would be like to see the little "herd" of SP troops doing more interestig things...check it out!

We have plenty of CC'ers over there - c'mon over and make sure the SP'ers POV gets into the mix!

Wow! I looked at the screenshots, and read the description. I'm impressed. You have my undivided attention. When will this game exist? I'm already waving currency. Where?
When?!

------------------

Greg.

37 mill AA...
can suddenly ruin your day.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 4:15 am

It will be awhile - we are not ready to speculat yet.

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 4:27 am

But Paul, we're skeered

. For my part, my main departure from RTS has to do with generic ratings for units, though the pace can possibly be maddening. We-Go is probably just something of a cosmetic difference for me, and really RTS can be played almost turn-like if you pause it enough, though i have to wonder if we won't lose targeting by individual tanks on individual targets in the new game.

In any event, I'm sure the armor ratings will remain, and so the 'unrealism' so common to RTS will largely be given the heave-ho.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 4:59 am

The armor modeling in CL will be a LOT better than in SP:WaW - getting rid of the hexes solves a lot of problems! and dooing a brand new database format now adds all teh things we could never add, like Weapon arcs so teh Grant will work right and russion rear firing MGs will fire to the rear.

In many ways the WEGO orders system will be easier than moving each unit in SP!

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 2:21 pm

Paul Vabber: Actually my first comment on this thread may not be that far from kidding. We have something of a clash here. On the one hand we have a system that is active and can be played, while on the other we have one that is a year away. I never hesitated to get involved in reading all of the forums that have just recently sprang up, but actually making any comments was another thing entirely. You can see the audience is generally much younger for that forum, and in some ways it approaches 'The Art of Wargaming' forum in audience. I've basically stopped reading the AOW forum a long time ago; it's just too kiddy for me. We've had a bunch of CC adherents come to the CL forum at one time, and when you combine that audience with the lack of being able to play that game, I think that has something to do with a lot of SP fans' absence. I thought it was screwy that no SPers were commenting over there either, but this is the best I can figure. It must be difficult to envision that CL will be anything better than AOE, and though CC is better, I think a few of us (including myself), have played CC and found it greatly lacking in overall gameplay compared to SPWAW.

GeneralGordenBennet · Post by **GeneralGordenBennet** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 3:14 pm

Here we go....An old Audience Nazi, Listen up Charles, I play SP:WAW, i'm 26.....And i'm a relative youngster compared to many of the guys over there, Read Ross Moorhouses post in the CL forum for ages and places...I can count the Teenies on one hand! I can appreciate what you are saying, but not having an open attitude only tells the 'youngsters' not to have an open attitude either. I even run a Steel Panthers Forum myself.
Many of the young guys(and girls, how revolutionary) have made mods that you would'nt believe, Lovely graphics, top notch research, and really expert OOBs....Both for SP:WAW and the CC series.... I never underestimate the Person(no matter how young they are) on the other end of the Phone line......
Greg

GeneralGordenBennet · Post by **GeneralGordenBennet** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 3:27 pm

One more thing...
You guys know what the SP:WAW team can do yes??? Do you doubt them??? I don't, and i know guys that worked with the CC games that are working on CL either, and i know what they are capable as well, course you fellas will have to take my word for it....with these crews teamed up and getting stuck in, i would'nt have a prob....If anyone here has anything to say, why not head down the hall to the CL room.... Have your say, voice what you think, and try to listen to what the others say as well....you never know...
My post over thier 'Weak Links' is one place that i would like the SP crowd to look at, and, if possible, give a word or two.....
It can only help the game if you guys participate as well.....
Greg

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 7:36 pm

If you think Combat Leader is going to be a AOE clone you're WAAAAAY off the mark. THis game WILL have a turn based option...

If you think CC is lacking in gameplay value, in what way? Let us know. Now is the time!

If you don't get your 2 cents in now...no bitching about it when the game comes out!!

[This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited January 13, 2001).]

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 8:40 pm

If you want to lick 'em, you gotta join 'em

Much like Hunter S. Thompson & the "Freak Power" movement of the late '60s early '70s attempted to take over the American Democratic Party from within to push their adjenda, here is your opportunity to subvert their grip on the game before they have a srangle hold on power!!

Are you guys gonna just sit on your hands??? Or are you gonna be FREAKS

LOL

------------------
Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://nwbattalion.tripod.com
E-mail nwbattalion@icqmail.com

Tankhead · Post by **Tankhead** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 8:46 pm

ROTFL LOL

Tankhead

Originally posted by Bonzo:
Much like Hunter S. Thompson & the "Freak Power" movement of the late '60s early '70s attempted to take over the American Democratic Party from within to push their adjenda, here is your opportunity to subvert their grip on the game before they have a srangle hold on power!!

------------------
Rick Cloutier rcclout@telusplanet.net
Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources
http://members.tripod.com/tankhead__1

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Sun Jan 14, 2001 5:44 am

GeneralGordonBennet: Actually I would have thought that the teenagers were few and far between in the "AOW forum", which is actually where my comment was directed (not so much the CL one). When I said 'kiddy' I wasn't in any way trying to say they weren't necessarily mature for their age or indeed that I at that age was any better, it's just that it tires me, and it's not the sort of conversation I enjoy. My comment wasn't meant in any way to say that anyone here doesn't have talent, be that in the AOW forum or not, but only that the conversation in that forum is definitely of a different caliber. You say you're 26, well I'm 41. When I was 26 I identified myself much more with teenagers than with 41 year-olds, that's just the way it is/was. The two different age groups don't talk in the same manner, generally, and not about the same things. I've even been single all my life, like many teenagers and mid-20s people, and still I can see how there's a gulf. It's not overwhelming, it's just that people my age are talking differently and about different things. My description of that forum was vague, I suppose, but I was thinking that a number of the oldsters knew what I was talking about, but, then again, maybe I'm the only one who noticed it. You know how surprised people generally seem to be about the course of the conversations in the SPWAW forum, and that's exactly what I'm talking about; it's different.

Paul Vebber: Hmmm, from what I heard it seemed CL would only be RTS and WE-GO, but not turn-based. I'm not sure if your response was meant for me or everyone on this forum in general. I didn't say that I regard it as an AOE clone, but that people might (especially if they hadn't played CC [the recent rise of Sudden Strike doesn't help reduce any paranoia there may be, unfortunately]), and I certainly departed from that mindset by stating that it would have realistic armor ratings which would seperate it from AOE fare, considerably (though I still don't know if any/all play-mode(s) will allow individual units to target individually).

CC was lacking in gameplay value in a number of ways (I'm comparing to SPWAW now). 1. There's no random battle generator (at least the two versions I have). 2. There's little or no armor modeling in comparison to SPWAW. 3. Units are definitely less responsive (though some like this of course). Elevation was quite unclear. 4. There's no extensive campaign 5. There are not multiple nations. 6. The ammo was unlimited (at least as far as I saw). I could go on and on. My place isn't to mention the disadvantages to CC anyway, because other than the sound it's left my interest (though doubtlessly I would have given Bulge and others a chance if I got it at greatly reduced price), nor does CC have to have all the advantages without the disadvantages of SPWAW, CC doesn't concern me. CL does, but it seems from what I've heard that I can expect all the good points of SPWAW, with hopefully a minimum of CC drawbacks. As far as I'm concerned it's a totally different game, and likely will be better in almost every respect to CC and SPWAW both, so I see no need to comment, as it looks like the direction is generally heading in the right direction; it's just that I thought I might've had an idea as to why the absence of SPWAWers from the forum in general. I suppose I've just got everybody teed off now, I should've known better....

-An old Audience Fascist-

[This message has been edited by Charles22 (edited January 13, 2001).]

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sun Jan 14, 2001 6:30 am

Charles - I for one am not "teed-off" - not in the least! My comments were just meant as general response, in an attempt to avoid misunderstanding!

WEGO not being turn based for instance...WEGO IS turn-based, you just don't move your individual units, you tell your units where you want them to go. The game then advances the set timeframe until you get to move again. Individual targeting by individual units will be there, especially with FOW off. With it one, it will be much harder to localize and acquire targets. We are going to great lengths to improve the "tracking" limitations of units so difference between a shot at a unit slowly moving in the open towards you, and a unit moving quickly from coover to cover will be MUCH different compaaared to the "freeze frame" of SP:WaW

We understand there is a lot of angst amonst SP'ers about anything with "RT" any way related to it.

We want to show that its very possible to do a "serious" tactical game with an RT option and it not be akin to Sudden Strike or AOE/WW2.

If you feel the game is in good hands and need not comment - thats fine!

I and others just want to make sure that SP'er understand the nature of the new game as something to rise above both SP:WaW and CC!

[This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited January 13, 2001).]

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Sun Jan 14, 2001 8:02 am

Paul don't get me wrong I'm gonna buy the game in hopes that someday you will be doing a real Steel Panthers Game for comercial sale with as hot a game engine as the law allows .. and dang ... if i can find the slot ... i may even put a quarter in and give CL a play ... maybe even "win" a Medal...

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Sun Jan 14, 2001 2:32 pm

One really good thing with the CL system is that it introduces timing as a very important element in your tactics (at least if i got the idea of it right).. something that is very difficult to simulate with a traditional turn-based game. I'm going to enjoy that for sure, and i'm sure you won't lack the details and accuracy in the game like (all?) other "real-time" games do.