War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

[Q-Ball]

I probably am among the minority, but I like the CS units as-is. They are very useful running with the CVs.

-They provide a cruiser's worth of AA, thereby saving a CA for surface duties
-They provide all the search planes you need; this allows you to use 100% of the VALS/KATES on Nav Attack (unlike USN CVs, which have to have 10% or so on Nav Search). Thus, they effectively increase your attack capability
-Later on, you can put some Zero Float Planes on them, and add to fighter CAP

I personally don't like to convert all of them; takes them off the board for too long. (MIZUHO is one that's worth converting, since she is too slow, and actually gains some speed on conversion)

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Miller

Depends on whether Kaga is part of the KB. If she is then 16 hexes max, otherwise 18 hexes max (both at full speed). At normal speed probably in the region of 11 or 12.

at normal speed I would say not more than 9-10 hexes as their mission speed (rounded) is four hexes with an additional hex now and then in the phases.

[hkbhsi]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I probably am among the minority, but I like the CS units as-is. They are very useful running with the CVs.

-They provide a cruiser's worth of AA, thereby saving a CA for surface duties
-They provide all the search planes you need; this allows you to use 100% of the VALS/KATES on Nav Attack (unlike USN CVs, which have to have 10% or so on Nav Search). Thus, they effectively increase your attack capability
-Later on, you can put some Zero Float Planes on them, and add to fighter CAP

I personally don't like to convert all of them; takes them off the board for too long. (MIZUHO is one that's worth converting, since she is too slow, and actually gains some speed on conversion)

I totally agree with you, the job they do as CS is priceless for all the reasons you stated.

If you plan to convert them you'll be without one of your best assets for the crucial part of the war, while when they are finally refitted as CVLs the allies are more powerful than the Empire regardless.

[Canoerebel]

2/17/42

West Coast: Steve tries for the ambush we discussed in here yesterday. His CS TF retired and in its place is the KB, which sprinted SE, probably at regular speed. His Vals flew an unsuccessful missions against DD Russell, which I had detached from a separate ASW TF to serve as a flanking scout. My carriers were 17 hexes to the south of the IJN carriers and undetected, as best I can tell. Obviously, Steve has oilers somewhere to the north, but my carriers are out of position to try for them. The KB is smack in the way. So my carriers will retire to the south with several DDs screening well to their north.

NoPac: Steve flies his first meaningful raid. Zeroes from Alliford Bay fly a sweep mission over Vancouver and take the worst of things, tanngling with roughly 60 Kittyhawks, Warhawks and P-39s. Recon shows Alliford Bay suddenly has 80+ strike aircraft, so it seems that Steve is about ready to begin his bombing campaign. He has a multitude of targets. I can't cover them all, but I think he's going to have a tough time accomplishing anything at the distances he is flying.

Everywhere Else: Nothing happened today worth updating about.

[Canoerebel]

That's odd. I updated the AAR and the update is on the screen, but it didn't "bump up" my AAR to the top of the list. It's still down where it was before I updated. That's a new one.

Edited to Add: But this update did bump it to the top. An anomaly that doesn't matter one whit, but I couldn't help but post about it as it helps me try to stay ahead of GreyJoy....

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's odd. I updated the AAR and the update is on the screen, but it didn't "bump up" my AAR to the top of the list. It's still down where it was before I updated. That's a new one.

Edited to Add: But this update did bump it to the top. An anomaly that doesn't matter one whit, but I couldn't help but post about it as it helps me try to stay ahead of GreyJoy....

[:D]
(so does this one!)

[Lecivius]

These boards are acting wonky (it's a technical term) over the last few days.

[Canoerebel]

2/18/42

West Coast: The KB continues to slide south (she's now far to the east of the Hawaian Islands and far southwest of San Diego). Her Vals missed DD Russell again. Three American DDs are trying to keep tabs on the KB while my own carriers (plus a replenishment TF) remain out of harm's way further down the map. To the west, I had three damaged BBs in separate TFs that were making their way from Pearl towards the Canal Zone. They're very far to the southwest of the KB, but there is some danger here, so I'm trying to watch over everything carefully. To this point, though, the KB raid is probably accomplishing nothing except frustrating Steve.

NoPac: No Japan air raids this time. Anchorage holds, a siege that is becoming epic in its scope and duration.

Oz: I got a Coast Watcher report that CV Zuikaku is in port at Milne Bay. This is highly unlikley since Milne is a dot hex just occupied by Japan. Everything looks good right now in SoPac and in Oz. There is the incursion by a host of Japanese armor spreading south and east out of the Darwin vicinity, but nothing else of import. Three of the seven USAAF squadrons from USA have arrived at Adelaide.

DEI: IJ troops have arrived at Soerabaja, but not in large enough numbers to take the base quite yet.

Burma: The Allies are pulling the forward garrisons back to Meiktile in preparation for a retirement to Mandalay and then an effort to overwhelm the IJ force at Schwebo.

China: Lots of IJA units moving to the far north and west. This includes at least two divisions moving on the complex of bases in the mountains/desert west of Sian. I think I have sufficient troops to meet this threat. Supply should be a problem for Japanese units operating this far from home.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's odd. I updated the AAR and the update is on the screen, but it didn't "bump up" my AAR to the top of the list. It's still down where it was before I updated. That's a new one.

Edited to Add: But this update did bump it to the top. An anomaly that doesn't matter one whit, but I couldn't help but post about it as it helps me try to stay ahead of GreyJoy....

[8|]

You're still ahead my friend.... for now[8D]

[Canoerebel]

2/19/42

West Coast: No IJ aircraft raids and the KB vanishes, presumably retiring to the north into the vastness between Hawai and California. One of my damaged BB TFs is having problems with damage control - Oklahoma's FLT is up to 75. She'll return to Pearl Harbor.

China: It won't be too long before STeve's "wing play" in China comes into play. Chinese and Japanese units will soon be in contact in the NW and the crazy-far NW. I'm pretty surprised he would commit division level units way, way, way out here. It's a long way home and fighting defenders on good defensive terrain while you're low on supply seems like a good way to fritter away divisions at a time when you could be using them elsewhere.

Elsewhere: The Allies continue to work on defensive (and mildly offensive) operations.

[Encircled]

So he's still hanging around?

I'm assuming he can conquer the DEI under the umbrella of LBA, and the amphib bonus ends in April (is that start of, or end of?).

If he's coming for anywhere outside CONUS, then he's got to do it soon surely?

[Canoerebel]

Yes, the clock is ticking.

He can probably handle Oz (and New Zealand) without the invasion bonus since both have many bases that will be lightly garrisoned.

India is another proposition altogether. To come for India in a sensible way, IMO, he's got to also take Port Blair, Diego Garcia and probably Addu Atoll and Socatra. Under most circumstances these would be taken before invading India proper, or at least some of them, to clear an LOC. Invading defended islands wihtout the invasion bonus would be a recipe for more problems for Steve. So he would have to start moving fast.

I think Steve is taking too long to effectively invade India or North America (and event o effectively engage in a strat warfare cmpaign). His moves are much slower than they should have been and missed chances to hit the Allies when they were most vulnerable.

But Steve still has plenty of time and the capabiilty to deal with China and, if he wishes, Oz. So that's where my money is.

Oh, and abuot Hawaii. Obviously he'd need the invasion bonus to take on Pearl Harbor.

My overall impression is that Steve is moving too slowly.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yes, the clock is ticking.


My overall impression is that Steve is moving too slowly.

yup...too slow...he cannot go for India without taking China first imho

[Canoerebel]

China isn't a prerequisite to move on India, at least if the Allied player dallies a bit in preparing for the invasion (as I did in my game vs. Q-Ball).

[Cribtop]

Well, I'll admit I was wrong as he tried for the ambush. Are you sure he was as far away as you thought he was? Or was it a case of him moving mission speed and ending at 7 hexes from your picket, which would have been 7 more hexes from your CVs had you taken the bait? Just curious.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

China isn't a prerequisite to move on India, at least if the Allied player dallies a bit in preparing for the invasion (as I did in my game vs. Q-Ball).

Didn't know you dallied......now I know.

India is a very tough nut, but there are a couple options I think to a full-scale invasion.

One is cutting-off the NE corner (as the compass goes, though really the area between Calcutta and Ledo). This will also isolate Burma if the British are still there, which is useful, and will temporarily occupy industry. It's pretty takeable once you are ashore; the beginning troops there are really terrible.

Another is taking Ceylon; this will net a bunch of points as the units on it will surrender eventually, and clearing the British out of their base is useful. It's untenable in the long-run; once the Allies get 4Es, they can bomb it so bad from the mainland you'll have to just leave.

Either way, you can beat-up the British/Indians a bit, and keep them back for awhile anyway.

[CaptBeefheart]

"I got a Coast Watcher report that CV Zuikaku is in port at Milne Bay."

I sometimes wonder if those coastwatchers have been partaking a bit much in local psychotropics.

Cheers,
CC

[Canoerebel]

2/20/42 and 2/21/42

Carriers: The KB slides north, ending up just seven or eight hexes west of LA. The IJN CS TF is to the NW, closer to San Fran. Sar and York are trailling behind, moving slowly north, very far south of San Diego. The carrier fighters are my "strategic reserve" for West Coast, right now, so I'll keep them not too far from base.

West Coast: A pretty tought IJ sweep at Vancouver. My Air Loss table shows the Japanese lost 16 Zeros (13 a-2-a) while the Allies lost a total of 35 P-39, P-40E and Kittyhawks (26 a-2-a). I had two pilots on the day KIA. This was a rather sobering performance for the Allies, but it is necessary for the Allies to put up a fight, both to gain the necessary experience to wage war and to bleed the Japanese under the most favorable circumstances. Japan is flying at long range. I still think it will be very tough for Steve to maintain a campaign from Alliford Bay. I'm tyring to suppress the base building at Walla Walla, but thus far my bombers haven't flown a single mission. Most of the squadrons are devoted to flying supply to Coal Harbor, which is of utmost importance (that base would be very beneficial to Steve if he could claim it). A few days ago, I stripped from Pearl Harbor the remaining fighters. leaving behind only a single P-26a and a small detachment of Buffaloes that just flew in from Midway. The rest of the fighters are enroute to San Diego aboard ship.

Oz: Japan has rolled up NW Oz, taking Darwin a few days ago.

DEI: Steve landed an entire IJA division (33rd) at Koepang in one phase of unloading! That's pretty impressive. It'll be interesting to see if 450 AV can handle the 250 AV that the Allies have. With forts, jungle and decent supply, I hope the Allies will hold for awhile and tie down this division.

IJ Divisions: I haven't yet accounted for the divsiions recently at Clark Field, but it's interesting to find that Steve has committed 2nd at Anchroage and 33rd at Koepang. I just don't think he would tie up good divisions if India was his objective, which reinforces my hunch in that regard. I'm still thinking Oz and China are Steve's objectives.

[crsutton]

It depends of the Allied players preparation but what can be done in India in March or April of 42 almost becomes impossible in May or June. However, like QBall says Celyon can be taken and I think it can even be taken at a later date if the Japanese player uses a lot of force. Baring a shot at autovictory I think taking Celyon is a better option vs a good Allied player. You will kill lots of troops and the Brits and Indians rebuild at a pitifully slow rate and I think it is worth a sizeable sacrifical garrison as the Allies will "need" to take it back. Yes, the 4Es will pound it but they will be pounding somewhere and I would prefer they were pounding as far away from Japan as possible. Plus the repair shipyard is the only thing the Allies have in that theater.

A stout garrison loaded up with supplies will hold Celyon for a long time because the Allies just do not get and suitable ships in that theater for a counter invasion. I think it may be worth 100,000 men to hold Celyon well into 1943. Of course a cautious Japanese player can take it, do the damage and then withdraw at a safe time. This works as well.

[Canoerebel]

2/22/42 and 2/23/42

KB: KB remains parked off the southwestern coast and commits the first IJ strategic bombing raid of the war (and the first strat points I've ever los in an AE game). Kates in big numbers hit the oil facilitiy at Bakersfield, scoring 30 hits, which reduced production by 92 units, which resulted in 192 points (I'm not sure how the math works). I'm not coing to CAP Bakersfield yet - my CAP will remain at San Fran and LA. Meanwhile, the American carriers continue steaming north, wondering how the KB is doing for sorties right now. Steve can't stick around indefinately.

West Coast: Another big sweep from Alliford Bay, this one targeting Tacoma. The Allied fighters from Seattle responded and did pretty well.

NoPac: Anchorage finally succumbed.

SWPac: The Japanese have taken Merauke and may be moving on Port Moresby.

DEI: 33rd Div. fails to take Koepang via deliberate attack, but drops forts by one and gets a 1:1 attack. So the Dutch may not be up to holding out long term.