Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

well, let's not start this over again...

Yes. Think of the kids.

[JohnDillworth]

Cannot be 100% of cource. But I see alot of APs in the box, and the big convoy consisting of APs and other ships vanished somehow from right under our noses...

CR is the most verbose SOB on the forum. Best send an message to discuss. Be forewarned, he is excruciating honorable, even if the ships went into the wormhole while automatically fleeing a threat, CR will serve them up on a silver platter in the spirit of fairness

[PaxMondo]

I agree, you should discuss with CR because open comms is always good. 
 
Having said that, I don't find this gamey, but rather an unfortunate "feature" of the map edge.  Without a map edge, you didn't have sufficient assets there to trap them; they would have had 2 more directions with plenty of sea room to flee (I think someone else also mentioned that above).  If you had had forces between them and the map edge, and then they had managed to worm-hole out ... but that doesn't appear to be the case.

[Hortlund]

Some good news this turn.

Darwin and Cebu has fallen. We got 8 B17Ds on the ground at Cebu, I wonder how that happened.

Darwin, and most of northern Australia was captured by 4 tank regiments. If Canoe had put a single Australia division up here, he would have held the place for the entire game. I was not planning to invade here, but the lack of defences more or less forced me to attack. Who would not capture an undefended Darwin? I wonder where he has put the Australian divisions, and the A24s and P40s... probably around Sydney.

The arrival of the 4th Bde at Anchorage managed to get a 1-1 odds. Look at this CR. This seems to be some sort of Alamo. Im ordering a shock attack tomorrow.

Ground combat at Anchorage (181,36)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26163 troops, 239 guns, 33 vehicles, Assault Value = 669

Defending force 7867 troops, 170 guns, 222 vehicles, Assault Value = 48

Japanese adjusted assault: 368

Allied adjusted defense: 286

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
793 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 67 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 10 (1 destroyed, 9 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
388 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 14 (3 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)


Assaulting units:
4th Brigade
Guards Mixed Brigade
2nd Division
8th Base Force

Defending units:
4th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
121st USAAF Base Force
81st Field Artillery Battalion
75th Coast AA Regiment
Alaska Defense Cmd
Eleventh USAAF
1/250th Coastal Artillery Battalion

Over Vancouver, we took down most of the Kittyhawks on the map. If I remember correctly, the RCAF only has something like 20 Kittyhawks at this stage of the war. Our sweep with 50-something Zeros took down roughly 30 allied fighters for 13 own losses.

Timor should fall soon, the 38th should be able to handle this.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

We got 8 B17Ds on the ground at Cebu, I wonder how that happened.

Obviously, he 'hid' them there waiting for PP's to get them out.

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
I wonder where he has put the Australian divisions, and the A24s and P40s... probably around Sydney.

Yeah, where and what is he spending his PP's on? Certainly, he doesn't appear to be doing the standard early game buyouts. Interesting.

[Hortlund]

He is probably buying units from the West Coast. Most allied players tend to buy out a few big units and put them on Fiji or Pago-Pago, or in Australia perhaps.

[Hortlund]

Finally Anchorage falls. That was a real nightmare. A single US (sep) Infantry Regiment held out for over a month against the full force of a Japanese division and two brigades. I think it must have been a combination of terrain, the abundance of support troops, and the presence of the Alaska Command HQ that together created the perfect storm.

I think my troops lost close to 400 AV in this battle. And now I have to do it all again at Kodiak where another (Sep) infantry regiment waits for my troops.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

Im not sure how to react to this. So any opinions are appreciated.

I had alot of high-value US ships cornered. Several APs, AOs, TKs, AEs, etc. I had a CS a couple of hexes away, and the enemy ships were without anywhere to run. From the north came 4 of my CVs, to the west, my CS with escorts, to the east, the map-edge. The only way was south, and I was "herding" the US ships with my CS while I was waiting for the CVs to arrive.

Then, the next turn, all the US ships were gone. Completely vanished from the face of the ocean. I spent another turn looking around, in case they had made an unexpected full-speed run, or broken up the convoy...nothing.

Then I spotted them in the Panama in-box. So, he saved his 10-15 high-value ships by moving them off the map, while I had ships not two hexes away.

Fair?

Yes, I have done it as the Allies. In the old WITP it was a common tactic to corner escaping units at the map edge and destroy them. They could not get away and a lot of players cried about this (rightly so). This was a solution. Not perfect but it is they way it works now and not a secret to either side. Barring a house rule that would prevent it (which I believe no sane Allied player would consent to) this is not gamey at all. It is the way the system works and it has been around for almost three years now. Yes, perhaps a little unfair to negate your hard work but anytime either player operates near the map edge they should expect some limitations. CR's only other option would have been to wait for you or sail right into you. That is not fair either. I know this is an AFB "tainted" opinion but I think it is correct..

I should add that if the Allied player were to exploit this by hiding a combat force in abush off the map then that would be very gamey and I would pitch a fit. Also, if he was using the TF as a trick to lure you away then you would have a very good complaint. However, for vulnerable or damaged ships to escape, then yes it is OK. CR is a straight shooter. He really is the last person that I could possibly think of to pull of gamey stuff.

[Hortlund]

Well, the consensus seems to be it is an ok move, so I'll drop it.

[Cribtop]

Why not let Kodiak die on the vine a bit before invading? It can be cleaned up later while you attend to the front and bomb and/or bombard it into the stone ages.

[Hortlund]

There really is no front up there. I have taken the ground I want to take, and now I just need to mop up all the bases behind me. Im setting up for a major defensive battle up here in a year or so, and therefore I need to clear everything out as soon as possible so I can start working on the defenses.

[Cribtop]

Fair enough. IJ engineers do take time to get to level 6 forts.

[NormS3]

I generally don't comment in any aars, but wanted to thank you for an interesting read. I am really enjoying this approach to delaying the allies from the west coast of Canada and Alaska.
It is my understanding that you can't just go in and hide on map edges. The fleets/convoys will have to go all the way to the base. My experiance has only been with AI games, so i don't know if there is a way to stop convoys once they enter the shute. This can be good as you have delayed his supplies and deployments by about a month by forcing them off map.

Keep up the good work/play!

[Hortlund]

Thanks! It is a new approach for me too. At first I only intended to take the bases around Adak, but when Canoe decided not to defend anything, I thought I'd see how far I could get. Now Im all the way to Canada, and in a position to attack the B29 factories at Seattle one day....

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
Now Im all the way to Canada, and in a position to attack the B29 factories at Seattle one day....

Ah, well, it will certainly cost Canoerebel some supplies to repair them, but considering that this game has just entered 1942 it is pretty safe to assume that by April 1944 he will have repaired the damage. Or do you really plan to take Seattle with ground units?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
Now Im all the way to Canada, and in a position to attack the B29 factories at Seattle one day....

Ah, well, it will certainly cost Canoerebel some supplies to repair them, but considering that this game has just entered 1942 it is pretty safe to assume that by April 1944 he will have repaired the damage. Or do you really plan to take Seattle with ground units?

Repair is trivial for the Allied player. The true value is in the VPs generated by damaging industry. As he repairs the VPs can be harvested over and over, are cumulative, and cannot be lost from the Japanese VP register. Once secured they are permanent VPs.

Section 17.0.

[Hortlund]

February is drawing to a close, and the final preparations for Operation Natalie are being set in motion. Four divisions are being moved from Manila to Batavia. There they will meet up with a fifth. These units will be the landing force. Another division will ship from Georgetown, making it six divisions in all.

6 BBs are at Cam Rahn Bay together with 1 CVL, 2 CVEs and 2 CVs. These will provide the cover for the invasion fleet. I am also moving airunits towards Bangkok so I can quickly fly in fighters to the target base. I already have bases in Burma that enables me to put CAP over the invasion beaches.

Im estimating that the invasion fleet will take about three weeks to move from Batavia to Chittagong, so there is not much time to spare now. In 10-14 days the ships must be loaded and ready at Batavia.

[Hortlund]

Right now I am in the process of eliminating dot-bases on the western side of Sumatra, and between Soerebaja and Timor, this to prevent any coast watcher sightings during the opening moves.

The plan is to have the CVEs with fighters only together with the invasion fleet. The CVs will have a more free-roaming role, where they will sometimes lead ahead of the invasion force and sometimes veer off to one side to provide cover from possible allied CVs in the Indian Ocean or around Ceylon. Another CV force, with another 2 CVs are on the way to Tokyo to replenish airwings, they will trail behind the invasion force.

All in all, Im expecting 2 CVs to be able to handle pretty much anything the USN can throw at me right now. I doubt he has his 4 CVs together and in position. Most likely they are on convoy escort duty, or possibly defending Australia or India.

I will also launch a huge feint, with 40-50 xAKs that will go towards Karachi, this should also draw away any patrolling allied CVs away from the troop transports. The key passage will be the western side of Sumatra, after that, the ships will go on the inside of Port Blair (lvl 1 airfield, 100% damage) skirt the coast of Burma and then to the target.

[Schlemiel]

Does capturing dot bases truly prevent coast watcher sightings from those dot bases? I know developed bases still give off coast watcher sightings in the coast watcher zone, but I'm unsure on dot bases.

[Dan Nichols]

It does not. I get coast watcher reports from occupied bases.