Pricing Hurting Sales?

[Bleek]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Yea it is an issue lol.

Units sold is a highly private number, not just for Matrix, but everyione else too. Amazon for example has never published any of their number of Kindle sales. As opposed people estimating the number they have sold.

So if Matrix said they sold 1,000 units why would that matter to you? After all Matrix is not EA or Bioware [:(]. If matrix sold 100,000 copies of DW, would that make you buy a copy more?

Just trying to figure out why providing that numbe rwould amke any difference to anyone [&:]. You either buy the game of not. It shold not matter if 10 or a 1,000,000 copies were sold to whether you buy the game or not. Especially since it is SP only lol.

If you just want to make sure that Matrix is making money, the fact that their web site is still up and they are releasing new games and patches, says that they are. No other information is needed [:D]

As a fan of the game it would be interesting to know, many other independent develops divulge the information, many of them!

Also where do you think we get industry sales figures and statistics from? Look hard enough and you will find sales figures for titles.

[Bleek]

Anyway enough of the speculation and theorising.

Yesterday on the biggest UK computer forum, full of avid gamers, someone asked for a 4x game recommendation, so naturally I chimed in with Distant Worlds and there came the issue.

Of the numerous replies in the thread they recommended the following including two BRAND NEW titles:

Star Ruler - £3.25
GalCiv 2 Ultimate (all expansions) - £6.49
Sins: Trinity - £6.49
Swords of Stars II - £14.99
Endless Space - £17.25
Sins: Rebellion - £24.99

Distant Worlds - £61.97

So for the price of DW you can nearly buy all the other games, including two brand new titles. Now tell me that isn't a problem?

As usual my recommendation for DW fell on deaf ears because as soon as they see the price they walk away... in fact someone asked if the price were a mistake, twice.

[Neuronomad]

Exactly Bleek. I personally own all of those and other than one or two gotten on sale from Steam the total of all the games is less than Distant Worlds with the two expansion packs. Regardless of how good the product is it is a hard sell when one can pick up three or four similar games for less. I still feel that Stardock priced SINS the best if you look at the fact that Rebellion has all prior content for less than $40. Similarly the newest game similar to Distant Worlds (Endless Space) can be had for $30. Even the upcoming Legends of Pegasus can be had for under $35.

Once again I would love to add Distant Worlds to my collection of Space 4x/RTS type games but it is hard to justify given the price being asked. Given the competition $40-50 for a combination of the game and the xpacs would be a nice price point.

[Numdydar]

To keep things the same, I will use Eight of Eight where I can to see why these games cost what they do.

Star Ruler (II I assume) 4 out of 8 http://www.outofeight.info/2010/08/star ... eview.html
GalCiv 2 (Released in Feb 2006, last expansion in 2008. So much older than DW in computer time at least lol) 8/8 at the time. Somehow I do not think it would get the same rating today http://www.outofeight.info/2008/05/gala ... ht-of.html
Sins (1st released in 2008. Again much older than DW. Although the new expnasion was released this year) Original was 8/8 while the latest expansion was only 4/8 if you already owned previous versions of the game. http://www.outofeight.info/search?q=sins
Swords of the Stars II (released 2011) only a 3/8 rating http://www.outofeight.info/2011/11/swor ... inter.html
Endless Space (the closest to DW in release date) 7/8 http://www.outofeight.info/search?q=endless I should point out that this has no expansions yet. So a true comparision would be to compare the base DW game to thiis $39.95 to $29.99 USD so a $10 difference, not $50 as no one is forcing you to buy the expansions of DW [:D]

I own all of these execpt Endless space. I did not like SINs (or the expansions). Just did not like how the game worked. Played it a few times and then just stopped. Same thing with the other two, Ruler II and Swords. Gal Civ 2 was the one I have played the most, but after a while it just got boring. No matter how big the setup was, you still run out of room which i thought was pretty unrealistic for a space game lol. Same thing was true in Space Empires (III-V) which I also loved in the day.

Once a game reaches a certain age, most companies drop their price to try and get a few dollars more out of the franchise. Or if the initial units sold is not projected to reach the pre-release target, (usually for a bad game and/or release) prices will also drop. Matrix has done this as well with DW by providing a $10 off each expansion if bought at the same time as DW. So this is a 'bundled' price even though not compinded into a single package/download. Just because the price point has not reached what 'everyone' thinks it should be does not mean Matrix should lower the price.

One last thing to remember in this discussion, Matrix is just the distributer of this game. It was not developed by them. So Matrix has a contract with the game developer that I am sure clearly lays out the pricing and when (and if) Matrix is allowed to adjust it. So this discussion should be over at Code Force versus here [:)]

[Rtwfreak]

I think the reason Matrixgames games remain so high is because they are Exclusive to wargaming and strategy games. A few of their independents have ventured off on their own to sites like Gamersgate and prices do fall there and that's where I get most of my Matrixgames titles I own. But, by having the exclusive games to this site and this site only they don't have to lower their prices and can keep them at full retail regular prices for as long as they see fit.

Other ways to get Matrixgames at discount prices is to search the internet for sales like on Amazon.com and Ebay as I've gotten several games that way for well under $10 like Panzer Command series that got me Panzer Command Osfront for free eventually. The Tin Soldiers series was onsale for $9.99 at one time on ebay as well as Steel Panthers General series for around $25 and WitP origional game was $35. The Time of Fury series was on Gamersgate for a hugh discount this last year except maybe the last one but I'm pretty sure it will soon show up at a discount as well. They had the Ageod series for awhile perhaps still do but it too has seen reduced prices at other sites like Gamersgate and maybe even Steam since they were with Paradox for awhile.

Don't think you will see Distant Worlds go down in price except during the christmas specials and perhaps one of those once in a blue moon sales they have in the middle of the year but there are other games simular like Endless Space that will go down in price.

ALways saves to search around though as you never know when someone will want to offload their used copies of Matrixgames titles. Most of us are grogs though and keep everything wargame or good strategy game until we die. So finding a deal or sale is uncommon. You can get HPS games cheaper though on ebay or NWSonline.com

Good game hunting to yahh. [:)]

[Bleek]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

To keep things the same, I will use Eight of Eight where I can to see why these games cost what they do.

And in doing so you're ignoring practically everything that has gone before in that most games are priced based on their age.

My example list wasn't a recommendation, they were from other people on the thread in question.

The glaringly obvious trend in prices is the fact that, with age, they go down regardless of how well received or perceived one title is over another!

Your argument about expansions is fair, but that doesn't answer why the base game remains expensive.

[solops]

Pricing Hurting Sales?
 
Nope.

[WoodMan]

They do a sale every November if that helps. I also imagine at some point in the future when the franchise is completed (still at least one more expansion to go) there may be a bundle.

[Bleek]

ORIGINAL: solops

Pricing Hurting Sales?

Nope.

A flawless argument! [&o]

[Talon_XBMCX]

I find it interesting that these discussions dont come up for games like War in the East or War in the Pacific.

[Numdydar]

Because people know that for games that contain that amount of detail that WitE and WitP AE Matrix is the only place that has them. Plus are willing to pay whatever price for them so they do not have to use up the entire basement to play these types of games Maybe that is why I find it so hard to understand why people are compliaiong about DW because I own bot WitP AE and WitE. [:D]

Also DW is more of a mainstream game in the sense that a lot of people here think that there would be many people interested in it if it were cheaper. Versus not many people would be interested in WitP AE or WitE, even if those games were $10 (or more) cheaper.

But overall, I have paid more for the Civ IV series, HoI 3, Diablo, etc than I did for DW. At least I paid $20 less for the expansions for DW than those that bought them as they came out. Many series (like HoI, etc.) can be bought cheaply with all the expansions for those that waited. So it boils down to, if you wamt to wait, that's fine as there are lots of other games to play. Sometimes, I am willing to wait, while other times I am not. Sometimes i realize that waiting is not going to save me a lot (like for DW) so I take the plunge. I figure it is better to be able to play the game months rather than wait for a sale that may or may not save me much money.

As I said before if $10 or $20 extra dollars rally matters that much, you should not be buying ANY games at all [:D]. If you have a set budget for games and you would rather get 2-3 games (that most likely will not be as good imho) versus DW, then that is ok. Nothing wrong about that. But suggesting that Matrix cahnge its business model because a number of people are complianing about the cost is not going to happen.

But you have every right to post and express your views. I fully support your right to do so as there is no right or wrong answers here. Just opinions (and everyone has one lol).

[MartialDoctor]

ORIGINAL: Panman

I find it interesting that these discussions dont come up for games like War in the East or War in the Pacific.

My guess is that that is, partly, because those games don't have two expansions, correct? But you do make a good point.

[DasTactic]

ORIGINAL: Panman
I find it interesting that these discussions dont come up for games like War in the East or War in the Pacific.

They are very much niche games. DW is really much more main-stream.

The niche games have a much smaller and usually more mature audience who are willing to pay for what they want. Compare the degree of general decorum in the Matrix forums in comparison to other forums as a good example of the type of people who play Matrix games.

The thing with Distant Worlds though is that the game itself is much more approachable and attractive to a broader audience than the niche games and so it becomes a question of where does the price resistance point need to be to make the most profit.

[Pipewrench]

ORIGINAL: Beag

Endless Space has something DW has not.

Steam. And some people still say it´s irrelevant and doesn´t impact sales. IMO, even if Steam conditios are harsh, once the game is known, a DW 2 would already have a much larger public looking for it and then ditching Steam wouldn´t be as important.

On a secondary note, Endless Space is also prettier and makes for nice videos to put on Youtube, thus fooling many people (the combat system is silly and late game is all about spam and auto-resolving battles, it seems.)

Speaking from experience, endless space after 20 hours of play becomes a totally boring shell. Research follows the same line in every game to maximize output. The combat system is rock, paper, scissors using a card based 3 turn cycle. No other user input is allowed in combat other than an auto-resolve that becomes boring quite fast. Planet improvements follow the same path with constant micromanagement in systems. The AI saves dust(credits) from the start and when war is declared will spend all the dust saved up to spam fleets at you. If you build up good 1 admiral and assign 1 good fleet of ships to a choke point you can literally kill his kamikaze raids. The events fire it seems on a script routine where if you have too much of something a temporary punishment is enacted. This game while very good visually is going to need a lot of work. It will get better but it has nothing on distant worlds.

[Kordanor]

Today I listened to Three Moves Ahead Podcast. A great strategy game podcast and this time they talked about Endless Space.
Google for "three moves ahead 176" as I am not allowed to link pages yet.

What has this to do with Distant Worlds? Well, they mention the game one time. And guess why? To make fun of it's insane price.
Check 29:00 til 30:00 for that.

Is this the one best thing to be known for?

[Pipewrench]

Thanks for the link and yes they did snicker about the price but did you listen to the next 2 minutes?

From my impression on what was said, price is dictated on what a game is worth. Most space 4x games go into the discount bin because the story is slapped on after the ships and tech tree are built.

Distant worlds has a story line in my opinion and can command a higher price. Each version brings a new chapter in a book. Start with the first chapter and read on.

here is the direct link :link to audio

[Bleek]

Unfortunately that's not the point, your opinion won't sway the masses, they just see and older 2D game that's more expensive against a modern iteration in full glorious 3D for a indie price.

I agree with you, Endless Space is bland and lacks in many areas, but that doesn't stop it selling!

Also many people struggle to be objective about the price of the product when they purchased it from new or some time ago and at full price.

[Bleek]

ORIGINAL: pipewrench
From my impression on what was said, price is dictated on what a game is worth. Most space 4x games go into the discount bin because the story is slapped on after the ships and tech tree are built.

Sorry but that's utter clap trap, ALL games get discounted in time no matter how good/bad they are, ALL of them expect one... DW!

Our question is why, why stifle the brand like this?

[Pipewrench]

I digress Bleek. Throwing out foolish(claptrap) must be such a waste of your time. I wish you well. [:)]

[Bleek]

This is ridiculous, people arguing against the facts and truth that are evident all around them.

Good luck to you!