High value early game Japanese assets

[richlove]

Hey all. I'm playing my 1st full game as the Allies against the AI. It's mid Jan '42, and, with some luck, have managed to put Force Z to good use, sinking a CVE that strayed too far, plus a handful of troopships. This got me thinking - what are the most valuable early game Japanese assets?

For the AFBs: what do you think is the tastiest target, one for which you'd risk your early game assets?
For the JFBs: what early-game loss would cause you the most trouble?

[inqistor]

Obviously you should target transports loaded with troops. If you sink good part of the invasion, there can be not enough troops to take base, so you would waste few weeks of Empire time.

It is pretty easy to attack them during unloading (they tend to not have enough time to run), but at that moment it is mostly too late to catch lots of troops onboard.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Bombing oil and refineries will hurt as well. As soon as Japan has captured bases with oil fields, send the B-17s and whatever else is in range at 6000 feet. Chances are good that the Japanese invasion forces do not contain much AA, base forces and fighter units for CAP. Early in the war there are not enough Japanese fighters around to cover both invasion TFs and bases. Even if - Nates, Oscars and even Zeros have little effect against heavies. Also think of a carrier raid on Palembang before air defense is in place (and if KB is not around).

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Bombing oil and refineries will hurt as well. As soon as Japan has captured bases with oil fields, send the B-17s and whatever else is in range at 6000 feet. Chances are good that the Japanese invasion forces do not contain much AA, base forces and fighter units for CAP. Early in the war there are not enough Japanese fighters around to cover both invasion TFs and bases. Even if - Nates, Oscars and even Zeros have little effect against heavies. Also think of a carrier raid on Palembang before air defense is in place (and if KB is not around).

Against the AI this isn't going to matter too much [;)]

[KenchiSulla]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Bombing oil and refineries will hurt as well. As soon as Japan has captured bases with oil fields, send the B-17s and whatever else is in range at 6000 feet. Chances are good that the Japanese invasion forces do not contain much AA, base forces and fighter units for CAP. Early in the war there are not enough Japanese fighters around to cover both invasion TFs and bases. Even if - Nates, Oscars and even Zeros have little effect against heavies. Also think of a carrier raid on Palembang before air defense is in place (and if KB is not around).

To be honest I make it a point not bombing refinery and oil supply with heavy bombers in 1942. It is to easy to station a few squadrons at Java and just bomb the crap out of Palembang and Balikpapan.

I have heavy bombers in the area but I use them to supress the use of ports and airfields in the area. Sank quite a few ships this way...

[LargeSlowTarget]

Oh, ok - the AFB/JFB questions of the topic starter gave me the impression that this was an open question, not limited to Allies vs AI play.

Actually, I do not play AI - I play with... er, against myself (testing my mod).

Still have a classic WitP PBEM to finish before switching to AE PBEM.

But I can tell you, it hurts when my Allied half bombs the oil facilities my Japanese half forgot to protect - great training...

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: richlove

For the AFBs: what do you think is the tastiest target, one for which you'd risk your early game assets?

Most people would say the carriers, but pound for pound my best day is when I sink an IJN CA. They have only a few, they are great ships in many ways, and they have multiple uses across all of the game years.

[John 3rd]

I'd say the large AOs are what I fear losing early. Really cripples the potential for long-range operations if you lose them early. Look at what Canoe did in his game...

Would also concur about the immense value of the newer CAs.

[crsutton]

Vs good opponents it comes down to carriers with me.

Allies lose three carriers in early 1942 and they pretty much have to watch Japan advance for the rest of the year. Other than that is is hard for the Allies to lose any other asset and be in real danger.

If Japan takes a hard knock on KB, the pace of operations will slow to the point where they can't win. Then there is oil, cruisers, valuable DDs. Lots of ways for the Japanese player to lose the game fast. My hats off to those good Japanese players out there.

But yeah, look after your carriers.

[Hanzberger]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: richlove

For the AFBs: what do you think is the tastiest target, one for which you'd risk your early game assets?

Most people would say the carriers, but pound for pound my best day is when I sink an IJN CA. They have only a few, they are great ships in many ways, and they have multiple uses across all of the game years.

Don't listen to that Moose, I think he found a bad drinking hole....

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Vs good opponents it comes down to carriers with me.

Allies lose three carriers in early 1942 and they pretty much have to watch Japan advance for the rest of the year. Other than that is is hard for the Allies to lose any other asset and be in real danger.

If Japan takes a hard knock on KB, the pace of operations will slow to the point where they can't win. Then there is oil, cruisers, valuable DDs. Lots of ways for the Japanese player to lose the game fast. My hats off to those good Japanese players out there.

But yeah, look after your carriers.

Let me just say THANK YOU to crouton..[&o]
I took up playing Japan about 1.5yrs ago and it is very challenging. I am just finally getting to the point where I may make a decent opponent for someone.

[peacemaker1945]

Go for large Japanese TK(of course if you found them), if you destroy even 10 of them within first 6 months of the war, you will seriously hurt Japanese economy for coming years as there are no many TKs coming out of Japanese shipyards within 1942, meaning Japan will be always short of TK.

[Miller]

CAs and DDs are the highest priority for the Allies tro kill. CVs are nice as well of course but are less important later in the game.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: peacemaker1945

Go for large Japanese TK(of course if you found them), if you destroy even 10 of them within first 6 months of the war, you will seriously hurt Japanese economy for coming years as there are no many TKs coming out of Japanese shipyards within 1942, meaning Japan will be always short of TK.

That is GOSPEL! NEVER have enough TK or AOs...

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Bombing oil and refineries will hurt as well. As soon as Japan has captured bases with oil fields, send the B-17s and whatever else is in range at 6000 feet. Chances are good that the Japanese invasion forces do not contain much AA, base forces and fighter units for CAP. Early in the war there are not enough Japanese fighters around to cover both invasion TFs and bases. Even if - Nates, Oscars and even Zeros have little effect against heavies. Also think of a carrier raid on Palembang before air defense is in place (and if KB is not around).

Which is the exact reason a lot of us capture places like Palembang long after we've secured the airfields in range around it (IE I generally secure Java and Malaysia before Sumatra).

[peacemaker1945]

I am always praying to have just a few more large TK(even 1 will be fine), AFB will never understand that kind of feeling.[;)]

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Which is the exact reason a lot of us capture places like Palembang long after we've secured the airfields in range around it (IE I generally secure Java and Malaysia before Sumatra).

Well yes, but this gives an opponent more time for a "Fortress Palembang" type defense if he chooses so, with even worse results concerning oil and refineries destroyed.

Next time I start a GC, KB ands LBA will suppress airfields around Palembang and invasion forces will contain base forces and ENG units, with fighter defense ready for immediate deployment.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Which is the exact reason a lot of us capture places like Palembang long after we've secured the airfields in range around it (IE I generally secure Java and Malaysia before Sumatra).

Well yes, but this gives an opponent more time for a "Fortress Palembang" type defense if he chooses so, with even worse results concerning oil and refineries destroyed.

Next time I start a GC, KB ands LBA will suppress airfields around Palembang and invasion forces will contain base forces and ENG units, with fighter defense ready for immediate deployment.

It is hard to fortress Palembang with KB and 2 SAGs patroling and complete air superiority via LBA. I am probably a bit more methodical in my approach than the average player. Granted it gives the Allied player a chance to do things in the south pacific, but which is more important, a few dot bases in the middle of nowhere or Palembang?

Basically, I cut Palembang off and take it when I'm ready.

[richlove]

Thanks all for the comments. Interesting note about the TKs; I didn't know that they were in high demand so early in the game.

[Sakai007]

It's not so much that they are needed early, but that if they survive until late in the war their value is multiplied since you have so few. I take great pride in sinking jap TKs early on, as it just makes life easier towards the end.

In my current game against the AI, it's March '43 and I have sunk 8 CV's, 5 CVL's, 4 CVE's, 8 CA's, and many DDs and a few CLs, plus two BBs. However, it's the 5 TKs that I know will help me starve japan in the end. I can take a screen too, since everyone says pics or it didn't happen. I have only lost the Wasp and Saratoga in the process, but I know this could never be pulled off against a human player.

[Shark7]

Of course you have to keep in mind that the AI is rather well...stupid. A live player would not have lost all those assets this early on, unless they made a huge blunder somewhere.

Also keep in mind that so long as the refineries are operating at Palembang, Tarakan, Miri, etc...a player need not ever ship an ounce of oil, and that fuel can be shipped via AKs. That is what makes those bases such high value targets. Also keep in mind that there is a way to create an overland route by taking certain Chinese bases that allows a player to transport the oil from Palembang to Singapore, then on rail to points in China closer to the HI (its gamey, but any player who is active in China gets this whether they are trying to use it or not).

In other words, the tankers are not as high value as the oil and refineries in the DEI themselves.