Why id my DD searching for mines?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:26 pm

As the allies I send a transport TF to Ognat. The MSW included in the TF detects an enemy minefield and clears a path. I then send another TF with 3 MSWs and one DD as an escort. The next turn I get the messages: MSW widens path through minefield X 3, DD detects mine and explodes it, DD hits mine. My question is: What is my DD doing wandering around in the minefield? Why doesn't it let the specialized MSW ships clear it? It is there to help protect against enemy Subs, not to use its small ability to clear mines.

siRkid · Post by **siRkid** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:38 pm

Your DD did not go off searching for mines. The code allows for some ships to discover mines as they are transiting through the hex and defend themselves by exploding the mines. Your DD just got unlucky and did not see the second mine.

Hope this helps,
Rick

PzB74 · Post by **PzB74** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:39 pm

I love mines

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:06 am

I understand that Kid. It is just with a TF made up of 1 DD and 3 MSWs, I do not understand why that DD decides to go hunting mines. It just doesn't seem right. If the DD had been escorting a TF without any type of minesweeper, then it would make sense.

PzB74 · Post by **PzB74** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:25 am

I think what Kid meant was that the DD didn't go hunt for mines... As you asked it to protect minesweepers sweeping a minefield :rolleyes: it kinda needed to be protected itself....

When it spoted a mine it was heading for, it detonated it and then hit another one that it didn't spot...

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:46 am

Hi, The DD might not have been looking for mines (but it appears it should have) You sent it into a mine field and then wonder why it hit a mine?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:47 am

So the solution is to send in MSWs on minesweeper missions without sending DDs with them for extra ASW? That seems real good.

Sonny · Post by **Sonny** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:55 am

Originally posted by PzB
I love mines

I hate mines. They ruin the game.

Logically nomad has a point - let the DD trail along behind the MSWs and stay out of trouble. The problem is the code was changed last patch to let DDs destroy some mines so that they were not totally at the mercy of them when not escorted by a sweeper. So the code lets the DD look for mines whether it is escorted by sweepers or not.

siRkid · Post by **siRkid** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:10 am

Originally posted by PzB
I think what Kid meant was that the DD didn't go hunt for mines... As you asked it to protect minesweepers sweeping a minefield :rolleyes: it kinda needed to be protected itself....

When it spoted a mine it was heading for, it detonated it and then hit another one that it didn't spot...

You are correct!:D

siRkid · Post by **siRkid** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:13 am

Originally posted by Sonny
I hate mines. They ruin the game.

Logically nomad has a point - let the DD trail along behind the MSWs and stay out of trouble. The problem is the code was changed last patch to let DDs destroy some mines so that they were not totally at the mercy of them when not escorted by a sweeper. So the code lets the DD look for mines whether it is escorted by sweepers or not.

Without the change in the code the DD would have hit the first mine instead of blowing it up. If the DD had not hit the second mine, would there have been a complaint? I don't think so.

Rick

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:16 am

So then I am correct. Never send a DD with a MSW or DMS. That does seem real historical.

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:31 am

Originally posted by Sonny
I hate mines. They ruin the game.

I love mines. They allow me to have a small chance to sink a ship without any risk to myself ( except for laying the mines and any risk I incurr if I go in the mined hex myself ).

The first thing I do in scenario 17 is send the minelayers down to mine the two hexes East of Lunga. The Japanese have minelayers that can lay 600 mines at a time.

Yamamoto

denisonh · Post by **denisonh** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:05 am

Originally posted by Sonny
I hate mines. They ruin the game.

Logically nomad has a point - let the DD trail along behind the MSWs and stay out of trouble. The problem is the code was changed last patch to let DDs destroy some mines so that they were not totally at the mercy of them when not escorted by a sweeper. So the code lets the DD look for mines whether it is escorted by sweepers or not.

I do not think that mines are the issue, as much as thier use. Offensive minefields are a pain in the a$$, and can cause you more trouble than the enemy. It is the absolute worst thing for your own ships to hit a mine.

Yes, laying mines fields willy-nilly around the Solomons (USN or IJN) makes for a less than enjoyable experience. But it is a decision a player has to make, and can have bad consequences.

The fact is they are not a "silver bullet" at stopping the enemy, but a major league nuisance. And they can create a major problem for your own operations in the area, sometimes more so than the enemy for which they are intended.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:14 am

Apparently I am the one in left field. Just about everyone else( except Sonny) thinks this is ok. I do not and it is not the first time this has happened to me. So I guess I'll take my complaint and leave.

siRkid · Post by **siRkid** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:05 am

Originally posted by Nomad
So then I am correct. Never send a DD with a MSW or DMS. That does seem real historical.

I think you are totally missing the point. Let me try and explain my view.

Having mine sweepers in a TF does not guarantee that the other ships in the TF will not hit a mine. For example, if you put some mine sweepers in an invasion TF, there is still a good chance that some of the transports will hit a mine on the way into the beach. If you put mine sweepers in a bombardment TF, there is still a chance some of the combatants will hit a mine. So, why should it be different if you put a combatant in a mine sweeping TF? The nice thing is that now at least some of the small boys have a better chance of getting through a minefield because they have self-protection. If the code was written so that surface ships in a minesweeping TF were invulnerable to hitting mines, it could be abused?

Rick

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:18 am

I really think my problem is that out of three times I have sent DDs with minesweepers on minesweeping operations, I have had a DD hit a mine every time. This does not seem to be 'unlucky', it seems like the DDs are actively seeking out mines( and detonating them with their hull).

I would agree that having ships in minesweeper TF not be subject to hitting a mine could result in a problem. Something like CAs and above should be in danger, even in a minesweeper TF.

siRkid · Post by **siRkid** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:36 am

Originally posted by Nomad
I really think my problem is that out of three times I have sent DDs with minesweepers on minesweeping operations, I have had a DD hit a mine every time. This does not seem to be 'unlucky', it seems like the DDs are actively seeking out mines( and detonating them with their hull).

I would agree that having ships in minesweeper TF not be subject to hitting a mine could result in a problem. Something like CAs and above should be in danger, even in a minesweeper TF.

I agree it should not be happening every time. It should be random. Has anyone else experienced this?

PzB74 · Post by **PzB74** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:05 am

Not really...Nomad is just an unlucky sonofa...)
Had he played me more often, he'd known that I'm usually a lucky sonofa

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:06 am

Hi, OK I'm just guessing. But a steel hulled ship in with the wooden hulled minesweepers and there might be magnetic mines? (wonder which one will trigger the mine?)

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:31 am

Let me try to explain this fully and maybe someone else will see what I think I see.

1. A minesweeper TF with 1 DD and 2 MSW enter a hex with an undetected enemy minefield. The DD hits a mine. This is something that can and should happen sometimes, not a problem.

2. A minesweeper TF with 1 DD and 1 MSW and 2 DMS enter a hex with an undetected enemy minefield. The DD hits a mine. Ok, unlucky is the most likely cause.( I think DMS have metal hulls)

3. A Transport TF with 2 DD, 1 MSW, 1 AK and 7 AP enter a hex with an undetected enemy minefield. The MSW clears a path through the minefield and the TF docks with no mine hits. The next turn a minesweeping TF with 1 DD and 3 MSW enters the hex with a DETECTED enemy minefield. The path is widened 3 times( 3 messages ), the DD detects a mine, then the DD hits a mine. There is a path through the miinefield. I still think that the DD is actively trying to clear the minefield. I do not think that this is the proper behavior for this ship in this TF. AS I understand, the addition of having DDs able to clear mines is for when there is NO minesweeping type of ship in the TF. Am I wrong about this? Would a minesweeper TF commander send in a DD to clear a minefield when he has 3 MSWs available to him? Note, I do not remember any messages from the transport TF DDs about detecting and detonating mines.

I guess my feeling is that this needs to have a look at. I am in the position of having to send my MSWs to look/clear enemy minefields without sending any ASW support with them.

Why id my DD searching for mines?

Why id my DD searching for mines?

It is in a mine field

DD's and Minesweepers